Is it a sin for a Christian to vote for a Democrat?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Status
Not open for further replies.

kcnalp

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2020
7,326
1,783
113
Indianapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Last edited:

JohnDB

Well-Known Member
Feb 7, 2010
5,259
3,475
113
TN
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
  • Like
Reactions: Bobby Jo

JohnDB

Well-Known Member
Feb 7, 2010
5,259
3,475
113
TN
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The miracle cure Trump proudly touted for curing him of CO-VID-19 was developed with aborted fetal tissue.
The fetus was aborted in the Netherlands back in the 1950's and the cells harvested were from the kidney tissues.

The cell lines have been producing and multiplying since then.

Just in case you didn't know.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bobby Jo

Prayer Warrior

Well-Known Member
Sep 20, 2018
5,789
5,783
113
U.S.A.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
  • Like
Reactions: Bobby Jo

Seven of Nine

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2020
733
636
93
North Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The fetus was aborted in the Netherlands back in the 1950's and the cells harvested were from the kidney tissues.

The cell lines have been producing and multiplying since then.

Just in case you didn't know.

Not that I doubt your word, but please cite some sources because I'd like to read up on that.
 

CadyandZoe

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2020
7,658
2,625
113
Phoenix
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You area the one using language improperly .. and making fallacious arguments. Just because the sperm may go on to become a human .. does not make a sperm a human. You are conflating and confusing what might exist in the future - with what exists in the present.
Obviously. But what surprises me is your lack of vision. When does a fertilized egg stop being a human being? Or perhaps you like to view things in retrospect? Is an old man human? Is a young man human? Is a boy human? Is a young boy human? Is a baby boy human? Is a baby in utero human?

Or better yet, if a man loses an arm is he still human? If Joe looses a leg in battle is Joe still a man? Does Joe cease to be human if he is missing a part of his body? How much of his body can Joe lose before he ceases to be "Joe the human being?" It's the age old question of "esse" What is Joe's essential nature? What makes you think that Joe, the fertilized egg isn't Joe?

Why is it not a woman's right to choose. The onus is not on the woman to justify taking ownership of her own bodily function away - the onus is on you to justify taking these rights away ..
A woman doesn't take ownership of her body. What a strange thing to say. When a woman stubs her toe, she says, "Ouch" I stubbed my toe! She doesn't say, "I hurt my body." No, she says, "I hurt myself". A woman's body is part of her essential being that distinguishes her from other people.

She doesn't take ownership of her body as if she bought it at Macy's. No, she takes responsibility for her body because that is her nature as a creature God made. Consider a flu shot. If a woman gets a flu shot, she allows the doctor or the nurse to inject her with stuff that isn't part of her body. The body metabolizes the ingredients, keeps what is needed and eliminates the rest.

Sperm is injected into a woman during the process of procreation. The sperm is not part of her body; it comes from a male. The woman contributes an egg, which is hers and the male contributes sperm, which is his. How does a zygote form? Who the hell really knows, but one thing is certain. The zygote isn't essential to the woman or the man. In essence, it is something or someone completely different. What they call that? It is called the embryonic development of a human being: i.e. one of the many stages of human development.

But science is so dehumanizing isn't it? So sterile. So mechanical. What you call a zygote is a human being in development and that is the essential nature of our existence. Unlike God who never changes, human beings are in a constant process of change over time. Why do discussion of abortion use Latin based words? Because abortion is a medical procedure designed to end a human life in order to cover up another human quality, the lie two people told each other with their bodies.

You are wandering way off the Utilitarian abyss - and this is a very dark path you don't want to go down .. Utilitarian Justification for Law - unless of course you really despise essential liberty.
I believe men and women lie with their bodies and make promises they don't intend to keep. I believe the law intends to protect innocent third parties.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bobby Jo

John Caldwell

Well-Known Member
Apr 12, 2019
1,704
973
113
North Augusta
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
God has a case! His case matters, @Heyzeus !

God knows! It's not for humans to decide when life begins. This is God's area! He created life!

Now, you're just sounding unhinged and obscene.
Very true. Scripture treats an unborn child as a child. The argument against a child being a person is based on an argument of secular law (to whom does the Constitution apply). We know that an unborn child can feel pain at 5 months. It amazes me that Christians advocate the dismemberment of such children based on the convenience of the mother (or any other person for that matter).

We have to decide who we follow - secular rights and laws or Christ. One cannot serve both. And I do not begrudge anyone for following the world. But we have to be honest with ourselves and should be honest with each other because we are not pulling the wool over God's eyes by lovingly advocating the murder of children because the Constitution does not necessarily grant them personhood.
 

Prayer Warrior

Well-Known Member
Sep 20, 2018
5,789
5,783
113
U.S.A.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Very true. Scripture treats an unborn child as a child. The argument against a child being a person is based on an argument of secular law (to whom does the Constitution apply). We know that an unborn child can feel pain at 5 months. It amazes me that Christians advocate the dismemberment of such children based on the convenience of the mother (or any other person for that matter).
Good points! And the unborn baby has a beating heart at 5-6 weeks!

Planned Parenthood Admits: Abortion Stops a Beating Heart

by Jeryl Bier

| January 16, 2015 07:21 AM

90


" Abortion stops a beating heart" has long been a poignant rallying cry for the pro-life movement. Abortion rights advocates often characterize the unborn as an impersonal "clump of cells" that a woman may choose to do with whatever she wants. But even as the House of Representatives plans a January 22 ( Roe v. Wade anniversary) vote on the Pain Capable Unborn Child Protection Act, it turns out the leading abortion provider in the nation matter-of-factly acknowledges on its website that some abortions involve stopping a beating heart.

According to Planned Parenthood's own description of fetal development, an unborn child's heartbeat begins around two to three weeks after egg fertilization, or weeks five and six of the pregnancy [highlight added]:...

Read the rest of this article here: Planned Parenthood Admits: Abortion Stops a Beating Heart
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bobby Jo

Bobby Jo

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2019
8,041
3,779
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@kcnalp

It was video taped and broadcast all over the television and youtube...
It was obvious and blatant no matter what anyone else says about it.

... and I believe it was Kamala Harris who ARRESTED and PROSECUTED the Investigators who revealed the Fetus SALES dirty little secret:

Charges Against Planned Parenthood Whistleblower Could Be Dropped

Undercover journalist suing Kamala Harris for conspiring to violate his civil rights through prosecution


... and she's certainly DIRTY, but that ain't no secret.
Bobby Jo
 
  • Like
Reactions: JohnDB

Heyzeus

Active Member
Sep 18, 2020
1,080
62
48
59
Edmonton
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Obviously. But what surprises me is your lack of vision. When does a fertilized egg stop being a human being?
.

Come on .. "When does a fertilize egg stop being a human" give me a break.

Man walks into a debate on whether or not the zygote is "a human" .. starts out with "when does it stop being a human"

This is called "Assumed Premise Fallacy" The question being addressed .. is whether nor not its a human .. at all .. or when does it start being a human .

What good is vision when one has a big log blocking that vision. Restating one's premise - is not proof of claim.

If you want to claim a living human exists at some point .. great ... but then support that claim.

On that note .. So when does the soul arrive .. and why. Where did it come from ..and where will it go after it leaves the fleshy vessel.
 

Heyzeus

Active Member
Sep 18, 2020
1,080
62
48
59
Edmonton
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say that you twist my words. Kind of like the devil did in the Garden.

Wow! What a huge stretch to get this out of the things I've said. Someone would have to be either stupid or dishonest to draw this conclusion. I really don't think that you are stupid.

I never said nor implied that "ultimately God does everything that happens in the world." I don't believe this, of course!

BTW, I know who you are, so you can just stop the charade.

Of course you implied this ... you seem to have a habit of not understanding the consequences of your actions and beliefs.
I you wish to claim that God is in control .. then God is in control of everything .. you don't get to pick and choose.

but even if it were the case that God was in control - has a plan for this life that we should not alter .. who is to say that it wasn't God's plan that this particular vessel be aborted .. via natural causes or human intervention .. what difference does it make to a God .. the goal will be achieved .. the soul can be redirected to another vessel.

You have a story in your head .. a spoon fed narrative that you really have not thought much about - not asked the tough questions ..

We don't know when the soul arrives ... what God plans and what he does not .. so who are you to tell a woman that she MUST have a baby ... go through the 9 month ordeal and all that comes after ... and that you will force this on her against her will.

Because of what ? "We don't know otherwise" Completely oblivious to the fact that we don't get to pick and choose with Law either... once precedent is sent .. you can use for other things.

Perhaps religion should be banned .. as this creates conflict in society - some group pointing to history which is not pretty.

Will banning religion make things better .. "Well we don't know otherwise" now do we so lets try it .. as increasing happiness for the collective aka "Utilitarianism" supersedes essential liberty.

Once we introduce this horrid and abhorrent justification for law .. you don't get to pick and choose what it gets used for Dear
and congratulations .. you have allowed Gov't to do an end run around the safeguards put in place by the founders to protect essential liberty ..
.. giving the Gov't near unlimited power.. to mess with essential liberty .. using the most flimsy of excuses.

This is one of those "be careful what you wish for" moments.
 

Heyzeus

Active Member
Sep 18, 2020
1,080
62
48
59
Edmonton
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I'm still kinda at a loss for understanding your assertions at other places in this thread.

I believe in teaching yourself if you want to know something.

I practically drew you a roadmap of where to find the pieces of information. But for whatever reason you don't seem to want to know and be sure for yourself of what I'm talking about.

There's REASONS why the bulk of Christiandom stands against abortion...this is but one piece of information. (Strongest statement by far)
So I don't understand why you would risk angering God when your understanding is but a few clicks and some reading. Those who teach are held to a higher standard than those who don't. And you seem to be trying to teach this board something that goes against generally held beliefs.

John .. this is a debate forum - you make a claim and then support that claim. What you are doing is making a claim .. and then saying now you go and find support for my claim for me ... and you don't even bother to post a link - not that this is acceptable either .. as at least you should quote something from that link supporting your claim

So then ... when does the soul arrive - and why. Where was the soul prior to entering the fleshy vessel .. and where will the soul go when it leaves that fleshy vessel.
 

Bobby Jo

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2019
8,041
3,779
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Re-Post from #268:

QUOTE= @Devin Wintch
... I ask God for forgiveness for my sins, Trump admitted he hadn't. ...
QUOTE= @Bobby Jo
CITATION? -- Not for you, for Trump ...
Are you any closer to providing the requested CITATION, -- or was your accusation unfounded?!?

Bobby Jo
 

kcnalp

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2020
7,326
1,783
113
Indianapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
People love pointing their finger at Trump when they are sinners themselves. The Dems started their impeachment circus even before Trump was inaugurated. The Dem leaders are baby murdering, America hating, Christian hating Satanists!
 

Giuliano

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2019
5,978
3,677
113
Carlisle
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I don't care what you find "impressive." The only question is whether or not the story is true.
Well, one newspaper saying it doesn't make it true.

This isn't a "theory." This is a story of corruption, bribery, treason and sedition at the highest level being told by a respected newspaper with evidence to support the story.

This is not my imagination at work. These are real stories backed up by real facts.
You calling things "facts" doesn't make them facts. Why don't they produce the evidence then? The FBI would be interested. The Republicans in Congress would be. I would be.

I don't believe you.
And I don't believe you. Your argument is, "I read this in one newspaper, so it must be true." You want it to be true, so you believe it is.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.