What Mormons Believe--according to a Former BYU Professor

[justbyfaith]

Another good link if you want: Jesus Christ, The Son of God

Another fail. I am asking for your own words in this matter and you are attempting to give me the work of others.

 

[justbyfaith]

I am going to retire for the night.

If the Lord doesn't return by morning, we will continue our conversation then.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Actually, there is (while I do not remember the exact quote). But I'm certain you know what I'm talking about as it is a famous quote about how what God is now, we can become, and what we are now, God once was.

There are exactly two original speculative quotes in the subject. I could get the links if you want

Neither of them are held as scriptural by LDS Christians, or Thus Saith the Lord. Neither or they actually discussed in LDS Church services and are viewed as non-central. There are a wide view of interpretations in these two quotes. Zero of these views involve dimishing His divinity or looking down on Him, He is the ultimate goodness and greatness.


But that doesn’t keep anti-cult sources from acting like this is scripture to LDS super central and completely screwing actual beliefs. It’s very silly.

 

[mjrhealth]

That is your concept of God that you determine from your own mind and thinking.

Of course God made a threat in Revelation 22:18-19. Also, do you not believe in hell and then the lake of fire for those who are wicked? Is it not a threat that God has placed these things at the end of time?

God never threatened anyone, what do you think He is. "Im God, if you are not good little kiddies i will beat the stuffing out of you". is that your God.??

 

[mjrhealth]

God once was.

God is God was God and will always be God, HE never changes, now Christ who is His word, that became flesh and to whom God gave all things He was man and now seated at the right hand of God. Till HE comes for His bride.

 

[mjrhealth]

I could never condone any religion, none are from God, they all corrupt His image, all like Egpyt make men prisoners and slaves of men, like Pharoah and filled with many confusing voices like Babylon, If men would rather there religion than God than that is mens choice not His.

 

[amadeus]

Since in mormonism there is a special blessing for practicing polygamy, why are ministers punished by the commandment that they can only have one wife?

For your information after spending some time in the hospital in ICU our friend @Willie T passed from this life on 06-16-2020. It was posted here:

~ Good Bye Dear Friend Willie T. ~

 

[Jane_Doe22]

<removed as I'm not yet done typing this>

 

[Jane_Doe22]

In another thread, @Prayer Warrior asked:

I don't think you ever addressed my questions about what Mormons have to do to be qualified to take part in the Mormon temple rituals. That was a very long thread, and I don't have time to look the whole thing over. Perhaps a new thread could cover some questions about this.

Ok, starting out with big picture context then zooming in:

Salvation: LDS Christians 100% acknowledge that non-LDS Christians are indeed Christians with saving relationship with Christ. Many many folks whom didn't sit mortal butts on pews at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints will indeed be dancing with God in the eternities. In fact, I'll wager to guess that will be the vast numerical majority of folks with Him. So this isn't about salvation at all.

Anyone is welcome to attend weekly worship services at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Anyone. Nothing require. Come, worship, partake of the Lord's Supper, and if it's open-mic week you're welcomed to share your love of Christ that way too. Welcome to contribute in Sunday School, come to potlucks, etc. All of those happen at your local church building, usually just a few miles away.
(I'm putting aside 2020-craziness here)


<This is the zoomed in to your question part>
Becoming a priest/priestess in the Church of Jesus Christ of Christ Latter-Day Saints: while anyone is welcome to attend weekly services, there are requirements before you can become a priest/priestess. The core here is "do you have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and strive to walk in His ways". The reasoning for that is self obvious.

So to figure out this, a person meets with their local bishop and talks about things, including some standardized questions. This process is known as "getting a temple recommend". You can read about it here: Church Updates Temple Recommend Interview Questions I'll go over each one, putting my commentary in italics my apologies for the butchered formatting:

1. Do you have faith in and a testimony of God, the Eternal Father; His Son, Jesus Christ; and the Holy Ghost?
   Obvious.
2. Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Jesus Christ and of His role as your Savior and Redeemer?
   Obvious.
3. Do you have a testimony of the Restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ?
   Obvious: if you want to be a priest/priestess in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, then you should hold this denomination specific belief.
4. Do you sustain the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the prophet, seer, and revelator and as the only person on the earth authorized to exercise all priesthood keys?
   Do you sustain the members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators?
   Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local leaders of the Church?
   Same as #3. Note: this is about authority and giddiness from Christ. I doesn't mean anyone is perfect because they ain't. Like I'm having some major disagreements with my local leaders but am still totally good here.
5. The Lord has said that all things are to be “done in cleanliness” before Him (Doctrine and Covenants 42:41).
6. Do you strive for moral cleanliness in your thoughts and behavior?
   Do you obey the law of chastity?
   Also pretty obvious. The "law of chastity" = keeping yourself clean of fornication.
7. Do you follow the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ in your private and public behavior with members of your family and others?
   Also pretty obvious.
8. Do you support or promote any teachings, practices, or doctrine contrary to those of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
   Also pretty obvious.
9. Do you strive to keep the Sabbath day holy, both at home and at church; attend your meetings; prepare for and worthily partake of the sacrament; and live your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel? Also pretty obvious.
10. Do you strive to be honest in all that you do? Also pretty obvious.
11. Are you a full-tithe payer? For new members seeking a limited-use recommend: Are you willing to obey the commandment to pay tithing?This is also straight forward but explanation is good- LDS Christians believe in giving 10% back to the Lord, as taught in Malachi. The principle here is humility and giving back to the Lord. It doesn’t mean that anyone should be going bankrupt or like that – if finances are super tight, talk with your bishop for help.
12. Do you understand and obey the Word of Wisdom?
    This is the LDS Christian health code of abstaining from alcohol, tobacco, coffee, etc.
13. Do you have any financial or other obligations to a former spouse or to children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations? Family is super super important and a priest/priestess should indeed be taking care of them, including paying an child support.
14. Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple, including wearing the temple garment as instructed in the endowment?
    Useful link: The Temple Garment and is Sacred to Latter-day Saints
15. Are there serious sins in your life that need to be resolved with priesthood authorities as part of your repentance?
    Also straight forward.
16. Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord’s house and participate in temple ordinances? This doesn’t imply perfection or anything like that. It’s a self-check and opportunity to discuss if anything else is weighing on your heart.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

In another thread, @Prayer Warrior asked:


Ok, starting out with big picture context then zooming in:

Salvation: LDS Christians 100% acknowledge that non-LDS Christians are indeed Christians with saving relationship with Christ. Many many folks whom didn't sit mortal butts on pews at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints will indeed be dancing with God in the eternities. In fact, I'll wager to guess that will be the vast numerical majority of folks with Him. So this isn't about salvation at all.

Anyone is welcome to attend weekly worship services at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Anyone. Nothing require. Come, worship, partake of the Lord's Supper, and if it's open-mic week you're welcomed to share your love of Christ that way too. Welcome to contribute in Sunday School, come to potlucks, etc. All of those happen at your local church building, usually just a few miles away.
(I'm putting aside 2020-craziness here)


<This is the zoomed in to your question part>
Becoming a priest/priestess in the Church of Jesus Christ of Christ Latter-Day Saints: while anyone is welcome to attend weekly services, there are requirements before you can become a priest/priestess. The core here is "do you have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and strive to walk in His ways". The reasoning for that is self obvious.

So to figure out this, a person meets with their local bishop and talks about things, including some standardized questions. This process is known as "getting a temple recommend". You can read about it here: Church Updates Temple Recommend Interview Questions I'll go over each one, putting my commentary in italics my apologies for the butchered formatting:

1. Do you have faith in and a testimony of God, the Eternal Father; His Son, Jesus Christ; and the Holy Ghost?
   Obvious.
2. Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Jesus Christ and of His role as your Savior and Redeemer?
   Obvious.
3. Do you have a testimony of the Restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ?
   Obvious: if you want to be a priest/priestess in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, then you should hold this denomination specific belief.
4. Do you sustain the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the prophet, seer, and revelator and as the only person on the earth authorized to exercise all priesthood keys?
   Do you sustain the members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators?
   Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local leaders of the Church?
   Same as #3. Note: this is about authority and giddiness from Christ. I doesn't mean anyone is perfect because they ain't. Like I'm having some major disagreements with my local leaders but am still totally good here.
5. The Lord has said that all things are to be “done in cleanliness” before Him (Doctrine and Covenants 42:41).
6. Do you strive for moral cleanliness in your thoughts and behavior?
   Do you obey the law of chastity?
   Also pretty obvious. The "law of chastity" = keeping yourself clean of fornication.
7. Do you follow the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ in your private and public behavior with members of your family and others?
   Also pretty obvious.
8. Do you support or promote any teachings, practices, or doctrine contrary to those of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
   Also pretty obvious.
9. Do you strive to keep the Sabbath day holy, both at home and at church; attend your meetings; prepare for and worthily partake of the sacrament; and live your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel? Also pretty obvious.
10. Do you strive to be honest in all that you do? Also pretty obvious.
11. Are you a full-tithe payer? For new members seeking a limited-use recommend: Are you willing to obey the commandment to pay tithing?This is also straight forward but explanation is good- LDS Christians believe in giving 10% back to the Lord, as taught in Malachi. The principle here is humility and giving back to the Lord. It doesn’t mean that anyone should be going bankrupt or like that – if finances are super tight, talk with your bishop for help.
12. Do you understand and obey the Word of Wisdom?
    This is the LDS Christian health code of abstaining from alcohol, tobacco, coffee, etc.
13. Do you have any financial or other obligations to a former spouse or to children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations? Family is super super important and a priest/priestess should indeed be taking care of them, including paying an child support.
14. Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple, including wearing the temple garment as instructed in the endowment?
    Useful link: The Temple Garment and is Sacred to Latter-day Saints
15. Are there serious sins in your life that need to be resolved with priesthood authorities as part of your repentance?
    Also straight forward.
16. Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord’s house and participate in temple ordinances? This doesn’t imply perfection or anything like that. It’s a self-check and opportunity to discuss if anything else is weighing on your heart.

Thank you for this, @Jane_Doe22 . Better late than never! :)

So, it looks like this questionnaire is used to determine whether someone receives a "temple recommend"?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Thank you for this, @Jane_Doe22 . Better late than never! :)

So, it looks like this questionnaire is used to determine whether someone receives a "temple recommend"?

Yes, very similar to how a priests in other denominations will ask questions of a a person whom wants to be baptized or become a priest.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Let me know if there's anything else I can address for you @Prayer Warrior :)

 

[TLHKAJ]

Because I want you to validate your epistemological methodology here without any hypocrisy, else this entire discussion is groundless.

Should I learn about Protestantism form the ex protestant that tells me they taught cheap grace?

I have been reading this thread and have only made it this far.

I believe what @Prayer Warrior is saying is that she measures what others claim and believe solely by the Bible, God's Word. As a Bible-believing Christian, that is what we do. Now, you on the other hand may not(??) ...what would you do with your friend's claims? Would you sit with him and an open Bible and explain to him how his beliefs and lifestyle did not agree with God's Word to begin with?

What @Prayer Warrior has done is quoted Lynn who quoted from your own book/s what is taught and cited why she and her husband had to leave because they found those teachings not to be in line with the Word of God.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I have been reading this thread and have only made it this far.

I believe what @Prayer Warrior is saying is that she measures what others claim and believe solely by the Bible, God's Word. As a Bible-believing Christian, that is what we do. Now, you on the other hand may not(??) ...what would you do with your friend's claims? Would you sit with him and an open Bible and explain to him how his beliefs and lifestyle did not agree with God's Word to begin with?

What @Prayer Warrior has done is quoted Lynn who quoted from your own book/s what is taught and cited why she and her husband had to leave because they found those teachings not to be in line with the Word of God.

If somebody wants to tell me what they believe, that's great. I love listening to that.

If somebody wants to tell me what *I* believe, that's rather silly. Likewise for anyone else to tell me what my denomination preaches/believes when I am an active member for decades and they've never even stepped foot into services. That's just a silly and the more a person tries to push that stance, the more ridiculous it becomes. Lynn Wilder's explanation is grossly inaccurate, as I've explained many times in this thread.



I'm very open about my believes, totally game for addressing any questions. And no: LDS Christians are not in the minority of Christians whom proclaim "Sola Scriptura". Rather, I believe that God continues to lead His followers & His words are not limited to just one closed book.

 

[TLHKAJ]

I'm drawing a complete blank about what you're asking me. You'll have to clarity what you mean.

What it appears to me is that he's implying God still speaks and thus all these new religions claiming to be by revelation of God are legit. (Forget that they do not align with His written Word, and forget that they are "other gospels" or which Paul warned...."let them be accursed.")

 

[Jane_Doe22]

What it appears to me is that he's implying God still speaks and thus all these new religions claiming to be by revelation of God are legit. (Forget that they do not align with His written Word, and forget that they are "other gospels" or which Paul warned...."let them be accursed.")

Note: GrailWarrior isn't a LDS Christian.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

What it appears to me is that he's implying God still speaks and thus all these new religions claiming to be by revelation of God are legit. (Forget that they do not align with His written Word, and forget that they are "other gospels" or which Paul warned...."let them be accursed.")

Adding to this: LDS Christians do NOT believe anyone claiming to have revelation from God is automatically legit. Just no. Discerning what is from God should be a matter of intense study and prayer. I myself have spent years on this subject.

As previously stated GrailWarrior isn't a LDS Christian.

 

[TLHKAJ]

The close of the Bible did not gag God. Did not tie the hands of the Trinity. So what do you think the Trinity has been doing for 2000 years?
Did the close of Bible stop the Word of God? Some rule that stated that, what was between the covers of the Bible is all God could do or say?

God still speaks today.

John 10 (KJV) ⁴ And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. … ²⁷ My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

But what one hears better align with His written Word or it did not come from God!

Galatians 1 (KJV) ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ⁶ I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: ⁷ Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. ⁸ But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. ⁹ As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. ¹⁰ For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
Revelation 22 (KJV) ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¹⁸ For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: ¹⁹ And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Note: GrailWarrior isn't a LDS Christian.

As previously stated GrailWarrior isn't a LDS Christian.

Yes, I knew this. What I am addressing is his belief that doctrines claiming to be "gospel" and yet oppose and contradict God's written Word are legit.

 

[TLHKAJ]

I will try to come back to this later. Only got to page 14...phew!!