Hillary Clinton on "Why young people are leaving church?"

[Josho]

Perhaps another reason why young people might be leaving is preachers preaching guns too much?

It's almost to the point that some American preachers are preaching an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, some are too obsessed with protecting the 2nd amendment....

 

[Bobby Jo]

... when it comes to the church, we are to call out hypocrisy and sin wherever we see it for one important reason. The church is meant to reflect Christ...

VERY WELL STATED. -- But those who prefer that the church reflect "love" or some "social agenda", don't like being held to the JESUS standard. I've seen a Senior Congregation Member KICKED OUT OF CHURCH because the "pastor's" (small "p") doctrines were FALSE, and the Senior Member wouldn't "kiss his ring". And this is not just in church, but also in the "Christian Community".


Thinking about it, -- I suppose a "ring" be a euphemism for a different "anatomy" ...
Bobby Jo

 

[teamventure]

@teamventure

I'm in agreement with that.
In fact, preaching that sin is harmfull is exactly what I've been saying we need to do.

 

[Josho]

I'm in agreement with that.
In fact, preaching that sin is harmfull is exactly what I've been saying we need to do.

And the good news is Jesus died for there sins, and that He will forgive them, if they turn to and believe in Him.

Preachers do need to preach this message the right way though, in a loving way that will make people want to run to God, and not run away from God.

 

[teamventure]

I actually believe that there are quite a number of pharisees and teachers of religious law today, it may not be physical stones, but verbal stones yes. You don't have to look far to find them.

Example of verbal stones?

 

[Giuliano]

Salvation is found in Jesus. It is scripture that reveals Who Jesus is. Just as Jesus said.
As far as the to many people thing is concerned, I am only repeating scripture. It's a wide road that leads to destruction.

A little more. . . .

Jesus said "few" when talking to his own disciples and other followers in the sermon on the mount. The same day after coming down from the mountain, he said "many" would sit down with Abraham in the kingdom.

And just one church... One pastor... On that road is too many. Note that the following is speaking about the church.
KJV 2 Timothy 3:1-5
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

I think I could place Hillary Clinton in the above list on at least 5 counts.

Hillary Clinton is not a minister. How can we blame her for young people leaving the church? She doesn't have a religious following. It may matter, but the quality of ministers matters more I think.

I would say "too many" ministers fall into the type of people described in that passage from Paul. They have a legalistic approach -- obey our rules and do what we say -- they divert attention from their own shortcomings by self-righteous finger-pointing. The situation is comical in one way resembling the hypocrites praying loudly thanking God they are not like the miserable sinners.

So you would say Hillary qualifies for five of those things? How many would you say Trump qualifies for? Why do religious leaders seem to find him so saintly?

 

[teamventure]

Perhaps another reason why young people might be leaving is preachers preaching guns too much?

It's almost to the point that some American preachers are preaching an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, some are too obsessed with protecting the 2nd amendment....

Either the 2nd A is a good thing to preach or it isn't.
Who's to say too much and when is it too much?
Also, No one is preaching eye for an eye so we can throw that one out.

 

[Josho]

Example of verbal stones?

Someone else would be able to explain this better.

But adding salt to the wound of a broken person doesn't help. Instead there needs to be loving, caring, and showing them how God can help them turn away from sin without the condemnation.

 

[Josho]

Someone else would be able to explain this better.

But adding salt to the wound of a broken person doesn't help. Instead there needs to be loving, caring, and showing them how God can help them turn away from sin without the condemnation.

To sum it up, preaching needs to be done with compassion.

 

[teamventure]

And the good news is Jesus died for there sins, and that He will forgive them, if they turn to and believe in Him.

Preachers do need to preach this message the right way though, in a loving way that will make people want to run to God, and not run away from God.

Yes, the good news must be preached but the whole gospel including sin must be taught along with it and today the concept of sin is avoided instead of taught. Churches need to be teaching sin along with the gospel message as it's a core part of it.

And a message that isn't loving is not the only thing people will run from. People also run from conviction but we will be held accountable to God for giving a partial account of the gospel just to keep listeners.

 

[teamventure]

To sum it up, preaching needs to be done with compassion.

But you see about your other point on preaching sin, you can preach sin all day with loads of compassion.

 

[teamventure]

Someone else would be able to explain this better.

But adding salt to the wound of a broken person doesn't help. Instead there needs to be loving, caring, and showing them how God can help them turn away from sin without the condemnation.

Example of adding salt?

 

[Josho]

Yes, the good news must be preached but the whole gospel including sin must be taught along with it and today the concept of sin is under taught. Churches need to be teaching sin more not less these days.

And a message that isn't loving is not the only thing people will run from. People also run from conviction but we will be held accountable to God for giving a partial account of the gospel just to keep listeners.

Back to the original post, in a way maybe Hillary Clinton is is asking for more compassion from some churches.

Of course I don't agree with everything she says though.

 

[Brakelite]

So you would say Hillary qualifies for five of those things? How many would you say Trump qualifies for? Why do religious leaders seem to find him so saintly?

Probably just as many. But Trump isn't being asked his opinion on the matter. Neither Clinton or Trump are qualified to be heard.

 

[Josho]

Example of adding salt?

An example, I am not mentioning any names, an Aussie politician got caught in adultery, people started verbally attacking him, accusing him and it took them a long time to drop the verbal whip, it was like they were taking him to a verbal flogging post and continuously verbally whipping and attacking him in front of the public for what he had done, the man knew that he had done wrong, yet people just wouldn't drop what he had done wrong, and continued attacking him, this probably went on for a whole year. Could you imagine what his mental health might have been like during that year?

Now that is rubbing salt into a wound. And is a modern day example of the Pharissees in Matthew chapter 8.

 

[teamventure]

Back to the original post, in a way maybe Hillary Clinton is is asking for more compassion from some churches.

Of course I don't agree with everything she says though.

Compassion is something this world needs more of. But why would you subscribe to the wisdom of the likes on Clinton in the first place?

 

[Josho]

Compassion is something this world needs more of. But why would you subscribe to the wisdom of the likes on Clinton in the first place?

Because she did have a point there...

Churches need to learn to reach out to others with more compassion.

 

[Josho]

Because she did have a point there...

Churches need to learn to reach out to others with more compassion.

Example would be, if you are an evangelist, publicly voicing/posting a negative opinion about BLM, it isn't going to help your outreach. If you are publicly voicing/posting a negative opinion about Democrat voters, it isn't going to help your outreach.

This is more about finding ways to make people run to God, rather then run away.

 

[teamventure]

An example, I am not mentioning any names, an Aussie politician got caught in adultery, people started verbally attacking him, accusing him and it took them a long time to drop the verbal whip, it was like they were taking him to a verbal flogging post and continuously verbally whipping and attacking him in front of the public for what he had done, the man knew that he had done wrong, yet people just wouldn't drop what he had done wrong, and continued attacking him, this probably went on for a whole year. Could you imagine what his mental health might have been like during that year?

Now that is rubbing salt into a wound. And is a modern day example of the Pharissees in Matthew chapter 8.

I see thank you for the example.

But millennials are leaving church not because churches are too judgemental (churches are largely less judgemental now then in recent decades)
They are leaving because of lack of sound doctrine and lack of footing in the faith.

 

[teamventure]

Example would be, if you are an evangelist, publicly voicing/posting a negative opinion about BLM, it isn't going to help your outreach. If you are publicly voicing/posting a negative opinion about Democrat voters, it isn't going to help your outreach.

This is more about finding ways to make people run to God, rather then run away.

Maybe preachers should stay out of politics to begin with.
I see a problem with your other point. The gospel is not about trying to make it look attractive to the world that is the beginning of error in approach because it's a slipery slope to not preaching about sin for example.