Robots and Will Worshipers

[farouk]

I see His permissive will to be where, say, someone eats too much, or someone is a smoker, or someone is into dangerous sports like, rock and mountain climbing, race cars, skateboarding on crazy steep hills...all of these can kill us so...even though they are not sins per say, anything that could harm us or potentially harm us may be fine as far as sin goes but, not all things are the smart choice :)

@Nancy Well, I'm sure you would agree that vaping is likely safer. You are right about the many choices we face daily; likely outcomes are sometimes relative.

I think @Rudometkin is probably also interested in how the language of Scripture reflects different aspects of the will of God, like for example in Acts: "God commandeth all men everywhere to repent" (Acts 17.30) or in contrast in the Psalms: "And he gave them their request; but sent leanness into their soul" (Psalm 106.15).

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Thanks for joining the discussion, Ronald.

Apart from God, as in, not controlled by God. When it is understood this way, it is seen that there is no false dichotomy here.

YOu are welcome!

So many people think that the sovereing will of God and His predestination and foreknowledge means we are automatons, which we know is just not true!

 

[Rudometkin]

YOu are welcome!

So many people think that the sovereing will of God and His predestination and foreknowledge means we are automatons, which we know is just not true!

John 5:30
I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Are we automatons if we can't do anything of our own selves?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

John 5:30
I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Are we automatons if we can't do anything of our own selves?

That is an over reacch of that verse.

As another passage in Hebrews says, In him we live and move and have our being! We can do nothing of ourself, we do not keep our heart beating, or our lungs transferring oxygen etc.etc. god keeps all these things functioning by His Word and the laws He instituted to govern them. sow e do owe all to HIm!

But God set in motion the physical laws to govern the universe. Of course they were cursed as well so we see things like hurricanes and floods and droughts etc. But as for us! god accomplishes everything according to His will, and He has allowed man to operate in a "freedom" (within bounds set by God) where we are allowed to make choices! there are consequences for the choices either good or bad- but Saved man is free to choose or not choose God while unsaved man is incapapble of choosing God!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I see His permissive will to be where, say, someone eats too much, or someone is a smoker, or someone is into dangerous sports like, rock and mountain climbing, race cars, skateboarding on crazy steep hills...all of these can kill us so...even though they are not sins per say, anything that could harm us or potentially harm us may be fine as far as sin goes but, not all things are the smart choice :)

Or even people being in practice "nice " people and not be saved! He permits good and evil and will work both out to the glory of His name!

 

[Rudometkin]

That is an over reacch of that verse.

Ronald, do you figure my question wasn't worth answering?

As another passage in Hebrews says, In him we live and move and have our being! We can do nothing of ourself, we do not keep our heart beating, or our lungs transferring oxygen etc.etc. god keeps all these things functioning by His Word and the laws He instituted to govern them. sow e do owe all to HIm!

Right, so we have our being by His power.

But God set in motion the physical laws to govern the universe. Of course they were cursed as well so we see things like hurricanes and floods and droughts etc. But as for us! god accomplishes everything according to His will, and He has allowed man to operate in a "freedom" (within bounds set by God) where we are allowed to make choices! there are consequences for the choices either good or bad- but Saved man is free to choose or not choose God while unsaved man is incapapble of choosing God!

Of course these choices we make cannot be apart from what He determined, because we have our being by His power.

Or, do you suggest we control His power for Him so that we live according to ourselves?

 

[DNB]

I believe I'm asking you for the opposite of what you think I'm asking you.

If we were capable of achieving what God demands of us, then did we need Christ for salvation?

Is Christ not necessary, or is man helpless? When man is helpless, does God lower His Standard? or remain steadfast and Glorify Himself? Did He take away the law for us, or did He achieve something for us that we could not?

Why is Christ the only way?

Christ indicted us, that was the point. Adam was not guilty if God proved to be too austere in his demands for obedience, righteousness and love. Thus, Christ exemplified man's capabilities to obey God to the letter of the Law, and above all, love Him with all one's heart and life.
This is why our reverence and worship of Christ is warranted, he did what we refused to do, but should have, and could have, as he perfectly and justly demonstrated.

 

[DNB]

How can it be spectacular for God to do something without free will of others, when there is nothing spectacular about doing something without free will of others?

Am I misunderstanding something in your position?

I believe you vilified God's sovereignty in favor of free will earlier.

It's more spectacular for a being created in His image to have free, but at the same time fulfill God's ultimate plan according to His sovereignty, than to create an inanimate being , or create a being in His image who has no free will and thus, accomplishes His will as programmed.

 

[Rudometkin]

Christ indicted us, that was the point. Adam was not guilty if God proved to be too austere in his demands for obedience, righteousness and love. Thus, Christ exemplified man's capabilities to obey God to the letter of the Law, and above all, love Him with all one's heart and life.
This is why our reverence and worship of Christ is warranted, he did what we refused to do, but should have, and could have, as he perfectly and justly demonstrated.

Matthew 19:25-26
When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

 

[DNB]

Matthew 19:25-26
When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Yes, but Jesus did what his disciples thought incredible.

 

[Rudometkin]

Yes, but Jesus did what his disciples thought incredible.

Yes, and God commands men to do something that they are unable to do. God commands men to obey His law, yet Jesus teaches that this is outside of our capability.

 

[DNB]

Yes, and God commands men to do something that they are unable to do. God commands men to obey His law, yet Jesus teaches that this is outside of our capability.

Then how did he do it?

 

[Rudometkin]

Then how did he do it?

How did who do what?

 

[Renniks]

Yes, and God commands men to do something that they are unable to do. God commands men to obey His law, yet Jesus teaches that this is outside of our capability.

But salvation was always by faith which isn't outside our ability. Why were certain people called righteous in the O.T. if no one could measure up to God's standard?

 

[DNB]

How did who do what?

How did Jesus succeed in fulfilling God's Law?

 

[Rudometkin]

But salvation was always by faith which isn't outside our ability.

Then why is Christ the Author and Finisher of our faith?

Why were certain people called righteous in the O.T. if no one could measure up to God's standard?

Because of Christ.

 

[Rudometkin]

How did Jesus succeed in fulfilling God's Law?

He lived a perfect life.

Jesus did not say it is impossible for Him.

 

[Rudometkin]

For a Being with no limits, it would seem to be pretty easy.
But just creating creatures that do exactly as God determines that they will do, not only seems easier for him,

There is no 'easier' work for God. No limit is pure power with no resistance.

 

[DNB]

He lived a perfect life.

Jesus did not say it is impossible for Him.

For crying out loud, how long is this going to take?
What the heck does it mean that what was impossible for all men, was not so for Jesus?

 

[Rudometkin]

For crying out loud, how long is this going to take?
What the heck does it mean that what was impossible for all men, was not so for Jesus?

Relative to our conversation, it means that God commands man to do something that man is incapable of doing.

In itself it means that Jesus is not mere man.

What are you waiting for to take place?