If Jesus was the Son of God before he became man...

[101G]

The Bible I am quoting from is much older - the Septuagint or (LXX)

AND? it's alway someone wiped this or change that. well if so much wiping and changing was going on how come with all that the scriptures still agree? well.... YIKES!.

nope, sell all that to someone else.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Heyzeus]

AND? it's alway someone wiped this or change that. well if so much wiping and changing was going on how come with all that the scriptures still agree? well.... YIKES!.

nope, sell all that to someone else.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

All of scriptures does not even come close to agreeing .. what bag of tricks are you trying to sell - in this effort to ignore deflect from and deny the scripture in front of you.

How about those numerous "Sons of God" in the older versions of the text - sounds much more fun don't you think ?

 

[101G]

All of scriptures does not even come close to agreeing .. what bag of tricks are you trying to sell - in this effort to ignore deflect from and deny the scripture in front of you.

How about those numerous "Sons of God" in the older versions of the text - sounds much more fun don't you think ?

ok, what scriptures don't agree, and let together see if we can expose any bags of tricks...

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Heyzeus]

ok, what scriptures don't agree, and let together see if we can expose any bags of tricks...

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

First address the "Sons of God" rather than switch topics in your continued effort to ignore deflect and deny scripture.

 

[101G]

First address the "Sons of God" rather than switch topics in your continued effort to ignore deflect and deny scripture.

first I never switched topic, and second, you already know my position on the Sons of God. but if not, let me make myself clear. there are two types of Sons of God in the bible. humans literally. and in Job 38 the title "sons of God" are metaphorically speaking of the Sun and the Moon.

so the term, "sons" of God" are not angels....... Period.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Heyzeus]

first I never switched topic, and second, you already know my position on the Sons of God. but if not, let me make myself clear. there are two types of Sons of God in the bible. humans literally. and in Job 38 the title "sons of God" are metaphorically speaking of the Sun and the Moon.

so the term, "sons" of God" are not angels....... Period.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

I didn't say the term "Son's of God meant Angels" so we are in agreement. The are "Sons of God" but your explanation is laugh able nonsense.

We know that the ancients believed that in other Gods. .. and the text reflects this .. you just made a joke out of the whole bible - where we can just make up something ridiculous and claim that this is what scripture means.

Your suggestion is unsupported preposterous nonsense on Steroids - and you know it.

 

[101G]

I didn't say the term "Son's of God meant Angels" so we are in agreement. The are "Sons of God" but your explanation is laugh able nonsense.

We know that the ancients believed that in other Gods. .. and the text reflects this .. you just made a joke out of the whole bible - where we can just make up something ridiculous and claim that this is what scripture means.

Your suggestion is unsupported preposterous nonsense on Steroids - and you know it.

laugh able nonsense? ok, lets see who gets the last laugh.

The book of Job first.

answer at the beginning, the morning stars are the actual stars in the heavens, and here in Job 38 the term sons of God are the sun and the moon used in a metaphors.... (simle). well lets prove it out.

Let’s just cut the head off first, by starting with Job 38:7. Understand, and get the whole context. Job 38:4 "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? 8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb? 9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it, 10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors, 11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?”.

I want you to take note of verse 7, "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" Remember this verse

the Almighty, the creator of heaven, and earth is asking Job some question that Job cannot answer, nor any man, or any angle. but God has answered it already in Job 38:7 “When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?”. Here is what most people say, see this prove that it was the angles. NO, NOT so fast. Question, who really are these “morning stars”, and the sons of God that sang, and shouted for Joy? Let’s see who and what they are. Here in Job 38 God almighty are using metaphors. Example, Job 38:4 "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Job 38:5 "Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Job 38:6 "Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof”. We know that the earth has no foundation or corner stone. How do we know this? right in the same book of Job it states this, Job 26:7 "He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing”. God himself is what keep the earth where it is. Understand, God is giving metaphors to Job and us to understand what he did in creation, again, Job 38:8 "Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?”. We all know that there are no actual doors holding back the water of the seas, the almighty do that himself. But God is using metaphors to give Job and his friends understanding about himself, God, and his creation. we will solve the “morning stars that sang together, and all the sons of God who shouted for joy?”. First the morning stars. Remember we said that the morning stars are the actual stars in the heavens. and the sons of God are the sun and the moon, metaphorically speaking.

first, Let’s go to the book of James. Follow and understand. James 1:17 "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning”. The almighty is called the “Father” of lights, and lights here is plural, and is the Greek word, G5457 φῶς phos (fōs') n. which means luminousness. Now hold that thought and go to Thayer's Greek Definitions and or one while online can go to the blue letter bible, look up G3962 πατήρ pater, (Father). here is the Blue letter bible link. G3962 - patēr - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)

- Transliteration: Pater
- Phonetic: pat-ayr'
- Definition:
1. generator or male ancestor
a. either the nearest ancestor: father of the corporeal nature, natural fathers, both parents.
THIS IS WHAT MOST PEOPLE THINK WHEN THEY HEAR THE WORD “FATHER”.

but we are interested in the 3rd definition, and here it is, listen.
3. God is called the Father
a. of the stars, the heavenly luminaries, because he is their creator, upholder, ruler

BINGO,
God is the Father of the “STARS”, and the heavenly luminaries. Now, go to dictionary.com, or the free dictionary, or any dictionary and look up luminaries in the plural a celestial body, as the sun or moon. BINGO, this confirm how God used the term "sons of God" in Job 38. Now let’s see this sun and moon and the actual stars and what they did in Job 38:7. Remember the Almighty said that they sang and shouted for joy. Let’s see this metaphor clearly. Psalms 148:1 "Praise ye the LORD. Praise ye the LORD from the heavens: praise him in the heights. Verse 2 Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts. 3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light. 4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens. 5 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created”. Now what do the word, "praise", mean here? It is the Hebrew word, H1984 הָלַל halal (haw-lal') v. which can be translated as “sing”, or “shine”. See the stars, the sun and the moon sang or praised God by shining their lights in the creation. and guess what, they are still doing it even today... (smile).

now lets finish this metaphor, listen closley, Psalms 65:13 "The pastures are clothed with flocks; the valleys also are covered over with corn; they shout for joy, they also sing”. LOL, LOL, LOL, The pastures, and valleys also praising God? Yes, how? by shouting for joy and singing. because the pastures are clothed with flocks, and the vally is full of corn, what did the vers say they did? "they shout for joy, they also sing” . It’s all a metaphor. Do we now understand.


so who's laughing now? all it takes a little research and a whole lot of the Holy Spirit gudiance. ... (smile).. YIKES!


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[101G]

@Heyzeus, glad you're studying, and looking over the data. when you get ready, please tell us who do you believe or think, "who are the sons of God at Genesis chapter 6"... we have eliminated the "sons of God at job 38... metaphorically speaking. I hope you are able to follow the line of discovery.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Heyzeus]

@Heyzeus, glad you're studying, and looking over the data. when you get ready, please tell us who do you believe or think, "who are the sons of God at Genesis chapter 6"... we have eliminated the "sons of God at job 38... metaphorically speaking. I hope you are able to follow the line of discovery.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

We have not eliminated the son's of God of Job - what made up gibberish is this you are talking ? They are the same Sons of God referred to in Deut 32:8 Deut 32:43, Psalm 82 .. and Genesis.

Your claim that the "Sons of God" represented the Moon and Stars is laughable silliness .. "Because" of Genesis .. obviously the Sun and Stars are not coming down and having sex with humans. People from the Sky - People from Above - People from "the Heavens" .. yes.

In this case - we are told it is the "Son's of God" that come down. and yes .. the US in "made man in Our Image .. Like US" is plural .. and always has been - since the beginning.

"Who are the Sons of God" ? my answer is the same as it has always been - despite your desperate attempts to avoid - ignore - and deflect.

The Sons of God - are Sons of God .. El was reputed to have 70 sons - YHWH included whose main rival was another son Lord Baal.

El-YHWH vs El-Baal is a big battle waged throughout scripture .. and now you know .. "the rest of the Story" :)

 

[101G]

We have not eliminated the son's of God of Job - what made up gibberish is this you are talking ? They are the same Sons of God referred to in Deut 32:8 Deut 32:43, Psalm 82 .. and Genesis.

no, you have not eliminated, that's your problem , and if it, "gibberish", disprove it. but you cannot

Your claim that the "Sons of God" represented the Moon and Stars is laughable silliness .. "Because" of Genesis .. obviously the Sun and Stars are not coming down and having sex with humans. People from the Sky - People from Above - People from "the Heavens" .. yes.

apparently your ignorance shows, for you must not have read my post...#227, (smile), for if you did, you would not have not asked that ignorant question. I stated that the the term "sons of God in Job 38 is a metaphor. and I said nothing about Genesis chapter 6... yet .. except for what your beliefs are there... LOL, can't wait to hear your theory there.

now your Deuteronomy 32:8 "When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel." (the sons of ADAM? how naivete can one be?).

and your Deuteronomy 32:43 "Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, and to his people." (nope, no sons of God here) this is prophecy that happen in the NT, it open the doors for all people. once again, Romans 15:10 "And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people."Romans 15:11 "And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people."Romans 15:12 "And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust." so there in Deuteronomy 32:43 at that time ?NO, that's future ...

and Psalms 82:6 "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." the term "gods" these are nothing but ordinary men. here, the word "god" is the Hebrew word,
H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433

do you see definition #5, "magistrates", humans. and how do we know it's speaking about men, listen to the very next verse, Psalms 82 verse 7, listen, "But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes." (LOL, LOL, LOL, ordinary men), why? because they "DIE"... like everyone else.... oh how men come to ignorant assumption, but if they just would have read and follow the Spirit, then they would have known. as isaiah said , blind, ingorant, greedy guides. that have gone out of the way.

In this case - we are told it is the "Son's of God" that come down. and yes .. the US in "made man in Our Image .. Like US" is plural .. and always has been - since the beginning.

that's the second biggest lie ever told... after the devil first big lie.

maybe you was told that lie and believe it, but that's not what the bible says, no where in the bible do is say angels came down to earth and had sex with human women, it's a lie straight out of hell. as you now added to the lie, by saying, "the US in "made man in Our Image .. Like US" is plural". lets reveal you ignorance once more, which is not hard to do.

listen up Heyzeus do you say you are a christian? correct, and do you believe the bible? correct, and do you believe and follow the Lord Jesus? correct. ok lets see what the Lord Jesus say about Genesis 1:26. the Pharisees come to our Lord tempting him concerning divorcement, lets pick up the action in Matthew 19:3 "The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?"Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female," Uh O Heyzeus, did you hear whatr the Lord Jesus just said, "he" how many person is "he?" ... (smile) only ONE PERSON, so God is a "HE". now lets go back to Genesis 1 and lets establish this by scripture, listen. Genesis 1:27 verse 27 follows verses 26... (smile), "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."...... (smile)... YIKES!.. ok Heyzeus, how many is "his", and "he?" ... lol, yes, only ONE, just as our Lord said, ONE PERSON. so what happen to the "US", and the "OUR" in the verse before this. what happen Heyzeus? how did God go from a "US" and "OUR" a plurality, to a "his", and "he" which is a singularity. I know but I'm not telling.... (lol).

so Heyzeus, the Lord Jesus who do not lie say you're in ERROR, and the scriptures back up and confirm his statement, so the Lord and the bible are saying that you lied. Jesus said that God is a "he" one person, a singularity of person..... wel that just killed the other lie of three person as God... see how the bible just rip apart a lie.

now the one who you say you trust, and the one you suppose to follow, who cannot lie say you're in ERROR, better known as a "LIE".

now, are you going to argue with the Lord Jesus? so how are you going to explain Genesis 1:26 as a plurality, and yet God is a singularity in the very next verse Genesis 1:27. we suggest you read both scriptures again... :cool:

once you finish reading both scriptures, then your ignorant answer awaits us all. drum roll please........

my advice, plead the 5th. and avoid another compound lie.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Heyzeus]

no, you have not eliminated, that's your problem , and if it, "gibberish", disprove it. but you cannot

apparently your ignorance shows, for you must not have read my post...#227, (smile), for if you did, you would not have not asked that

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

all you can do is name-call .. and you were the one that said Job was eliminated .. now trying to project your stance onto me.

a spewer of falsehood you are - unable to deal with the material before you.

and your Deuteronomy 32:43 "Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, and to his people."

(nope, no sons of God here) this is prophecy that happen in the NT, it open the doors for all people. once again, Romans 15:10 "And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people."Romans 15:11 "And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people."Romans 15:12 "And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust." so there in Deuteronomy 32:43 at that time ?NO, that's future ...

You are correct that there is no "Sons of God" - no Son's of the Divine a modern translation - it has been wiped clean of these things.

Once again - the non sterilized version of Deut 32:43

Deut 32:43 LXX -
O heavens, rejoice with Him, Bow to him all sons of the divine
O nations, rejoice with his people and let all angels of the divine Strengthen themselves in Him
For He’ll avenge the blood of His Son’s, Be vengeful, and wreak vengeance and recompense justice on his foes
Requite those who reject Him, and the Lord will Cleanse his peoples land.

The modern translation has lost all meaning .. all reference to divinities has been stripped out.. when the Masoretic Text (MT) was produced - 700-900AD ..

the MT does however keep the last two lines intact - and they are the same as in the LXX

The modern translation completely changes even that .. what happened to "Cleansing his peoples Land" ?

Be merciful to the land ? and now all of a sudden it not the peoples land anymore .. its God's land.

This passage has been neutered of almost all of its meaning .. it is completely unrecognizable from the LXX and 4DeutQ .. LXX is what the early Christians were using ..

so who turned out to be the "ignorant" one - but, it is not your fault that the modern translation has been stripped of its original meaning.

even in the modern translation (NIV) howerver "Sons of God are mentioned in the footnotes" for 32:8

1. Deuteronomy 32:8 Masoretic Text; Dead Sea Scrolls (see also Septuagint) sons of God

So that you should have caught ... in any case .. wrong on all counts.

 

[101G]

all you can do is name-call .. and you were the one that said Job was eliminated .. now trying to project your stance onto me.

a spewer of falsehood you are - unable to deal with the material before you.




You are correct that there is no "Sons of God" - no Son's of the Divine a modern translation - it has been wiped clean of these things.

Once again - the non sterilized version of Deut 32:43

Deut 32:43 LXX -
O heavens, rejoice with Him, Bow to him all sons of the divine
O nations, rejoice with his people and let all angels of the divine Strengthen themselves in Him
For He’ll avenge the blood of His Son’s, Be vengeful, and wreak vengeance and recompense justice on his foes
Requite those who reject Him, and the Lord will Cleanse his peoples land.

The modern translation has lost all meaning .. all reference to divinities has been stripped out.. when the Masoretic Text (MT) was produced - 700-900AD ..

the MT does however keep the last two lines intact - and they are the same as in the LXX

The modern translation completely changes even that .. what happened to "Cleansing his peoples Land" ?

Be merciful to the land ? and now all of a sudden it not the peoples land anymore .. its God's land.

This passage has been neutered of almost all of its meaning .. it is completely unrecognizable from the LXX and 4DeutQ .. LXX is what the early Christians were using ..

so who turned out to be the "ignorant" one - but, it is not your fault that the modern translation has been stripped of its original meaning.

even in the modern translation (NIV) howerver "Sons of God are mentioned in the footnotes" for 32:8

1. Deuteronomy 32:8 Masoretic Text; Dead Sea Scrolls (see also Septuagint) sons of God

So that you should have caught ... in any case .. wrong on all counts.

I leave you to Facebook and tweeter

see ya.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Heyzeus]

I leave you to Facebook and tweeter

see ya.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Crushed like a bug you were - your false accusations laid bare - .. now in a puddle on the floor mumbling to yourself .. because what you have believed turned out to be a lie .. a pious fraud - the "Sin of Omission"

So don't be to hard on yourself .. its not your fault.

 

[101G]

Crushed like a bug you were - your false accusations laid bare - .. now in a puddle on the floor mumbling to yourself .. because what you have believed turned out to be a lie .. a pious fraud - the "Sin of Omission"

So don't be to hard on yourself .. its not your fault.

you can't argue with the DEAD... (smile), YIKES!, as our Lord said, let the dead bury the DEAD. ... (smile).

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Heyzeus]

you can't argue with the DEAD... (smile), YIKES!, as our Lord said, let the dead bury the DEAD. ... (smile).

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Yes - and that is the place your mind is going to ... a foundation built on sand - running away from the truth.

 

[Sabertooth]

If Jesus was the Son of God before he became man, then why does the Bible say that he became the Son of God only when he became man?

The verse does not say he became, it says he wold be called. The Son of God is eternal.

^THIS^

He was clearly was a distinct Person before the Incarnation.

"In the beginning was the Word,

and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God." John 1:1 NKJV​

"And the Word became flesh

and dwelt among us,
and we beheld His glory,
the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,​

full of grace and truth." John 1:14 NKJV

Overture to the trilogy, The Life (Michael Card, 1988)

 

[farouk]

^THIS^

He was clearly was a distinct Person before the Incarnation.

"In the beginning was the Word,

and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God." John 1:1 NKJV​

"And the Word became flesh

and dwelt among us,
and we beheld His glory,
the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,​

full of grace and truth." John 1:14 NKJV

Overture to the trilogy, The Life (Michael Card, 1988)

Hebrews 1 says: 'Unto the Son He Saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever'.

 

[Heyzeus]

^THIS^

He was clearly was a distinct Person before the Incarnation.

"In the beginning was the Word,

and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God." John 1:1 NKJV​

"And the Word became flesh

and dwelt among us,
and we beheld His glory,
the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,​

full of grace and truth." John 1:14 NKJV

Overture to the trilogy, The Life (Michael Card, 1988)
​

Hebrews 1 says: 'Unto the Son He Saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever'.

Hmm ... - this means Jesus must have drawn the short straw .. among the numerous Sons of God - to be the one selected to be transformed into a man .. and made to suffer for the sins of mankind.

This would explain his last words -- first asking for this cup to be taken from him .. and then "My God My God - why have you forsaken me"

hmmm .. I think you may be on to something..

 

[Sabertooth]

Hmm ... - this means Jesus must have drawn the short straw .. among the numerous Sons of God - to be the one selected to be transformed into a man .. and made to suffer for the sins of mankind.

Jesus said,
"No one takes [My life] from Me, but I lay it down of Myself.

I have power to lay it down, and
I have power to take it again." John 10:18 NKJV​

 

[Heyzeus]

Jesus said,
"No one takes [My life] from Me, but I lay it down of Myself.

I have power to lay it down, and
I have power to take it again." John 10:18 NKJV​

Yes .. he did his duty for the Father .. being a good Son .. we know the story. He didn't want the cup - but Jesus did his duty.

Nice Cherry picking of the passage though .. "17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

Why did you leave out the Father? ..the one whom the Son serves and bows down to - and is subservient to.. as are all the Sons of God.

Deut 32:43
O heavens, rejoice with Him, Bow to him all sons of the divine
O nations, rejoice with his people and let all angels of the divine Strengthen themselves in Him
For He’ll avenge the blood of His Son’s, Be vengeful, and wreak vengeance and recompense justice on his foes
Requite those who reject Him, and the Lord will Cleanse his peoples land.

The sons of the Divine Bow to "The Most High" Elyon ..