Perpetual virginity of Mary!

[Grailhunter]

I see that context is not your companion. It should be.

Context is my specialty. lol

 

[Grailhunter]

How is sin passed down?

God said to Adam......‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”
Adam did not die....he started to die.

And why does Paul say that "all have sinned"?

All have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God.
What is it to be sinless?
What is the norm?

 

[Prayer Warrior]

God said to Adam......‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”
Adam did not die....he started to die.

All have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God.
What is it to be sinless?
What is the norm?

Death amounts to separation. Our bodies die when our souls separate from them. Adam and Eve died in a spiritual sense the day they ate the fruit because they were separated from their Creator--the Giver of life--because of their sin.

Isaiah 59:1-2
Indeed, the LORD’S hand is not too short to save,
and His ear is not too deaf to hear.
But your iniquities have built barriers
between you and your God,
and your sins have made Him hide His face from you
so that He does not listen.​

Paul says in the following verses that we were "dead in our trespasses and sins" and that "we were by nature children under wrath."

Ephesians 2:1-5--And you were dead in your trespasses and sins in which you previously walked according to the ways of this world, according to the ruler who exercises authority over the lower heavens, the spirit now working in the disobedient. We too all previously lived among them in our fleshly desires, carrying out the inclinations of our flesh and thoughts, and we were by nature children under wrath as the others were also. But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love that He had for us, made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!​

So...the norm is that we were born dead spiritually, separated from God, until we were born again...of His Spirit (John 3). At that time, He "made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses...."
.

 

[Grailhunter]

Adam and Eve died in a spiritual sense the day they ate the fruit because they were separated from their Creator--the Giver of life--because of their sin.

The whole vial thing...
Sin separated God from Man in the OT.
But I disagree that everyone in OT was spiritually dead.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

The whole vial thing...
Sin separated God from Man in the OT.
But I disagree that everyone in OT was spiritually dead.

Did everyone in the Old Testament sin? I think we can safely say they did because Paul said that ALL have sinned.... And this is what Peter had to say about it as he quoted from Isaiah 53:

1 Peter 2:24-25
He Himself bore our sins
in His body on the tree,
so that, having died to sins,
we might live for righteousness;
you have been healed by His wounds.
For you were like sheep going astray,
but you have now returned
to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls.

Isaiah 53
Who has believed our message?
And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
For He grew up before Him like a tender shoot,
And like a root out of parched ground;
He has no stately form or majesty
That we should look upon Him,
Nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him.
He was despised and forsaken of men,
A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief;
And like one from whom men hide their face
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.
Surely our griefs He Himself bore,
And our sorrows He carried;
Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten of God, and afflicted.
But He was pierced through for our transgressions,
He was crushed for our iniquities;
The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him,
And by His scourging we are healed.
All of us like sheep have gone astray,
Each of us has turned to his own way;
But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all
To fall on Him.
He was oppressed and He was afflicted,
Yet He did not open His mouth;
Like a lamb that is led to slaughter,
And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers,
So He did not open His mouth.
By oppression and judgment He was taken away;
And as for His generation, who considered
That He was cut off out of the land of the living
For the transgression of my people, to whom the stroke was due?
His grave was assigned with wicked men,
Yet He was with a rich man in His death,
Because He had done no violence,
Nor was there any deceit in His mouth.
But the LORD was pleased
To crush Him, putting Him to grief;
If He would render Himself as a guilt offering,
He will see His offspring,
He will prolong His days,
And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.
As a result of the anguish of His soul,
He will see it and be satisfied;
By His knowledge the Righteous One,
My Servant, will justify the many,
As He will bear their iniquities.
Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great,
And He will divide the booty with the strong;
Because He poured out Himself to death,
And was numbered with the transgressors;
Yet He Himself bore the sin of many,
And interceded for the transgressors.

 

[Spurgeon's Girl]

Context is my specialty. lol

Perhaps you might want to show it in your posts. :)

 

[Grailhunter]

Perhaps you might want to show it in your posts. :)

Listen here girly I just hope you are all God blessed!

 

[Grailhunter]

Did everyone in the Old Testament sin?

How did.... I disagree that everyone in OT was spiritually dead.....turn into Did everyone in the Old Testament sin?
Sin is going on all the time 24/7....but that did not mean they were spiritually dead.

The NT does address this. Like we are dead in our sins and transgressions and Christ said if you do not perform communion there is no life in you, He was not talking about physical life. Now what does that mean....Can you go to heaven being spiritually dead?

Does it mean that the souls of those in the OT and the souls of the unsaved today are dead....dead souls. Scholars consider the Jewish religion to be a this world religion...mostly physical. It is the perfect point to debate because the Bible does not give a lot of information about it. Since we have examples of spiritual activity before one is saved we may not be able say we are dead to the spiritual unless we are saved. Can we say that our spiritual life begins at the point of salvation? Can we say that the quality of our spiritual life is heightened when we are saved? Deep topic...People can interpret it different ways.

 

[Mungo]

In the flesh, yes, but we are not talking about being the mother of someone merely in the flesh. Jesus was God eternally. Conception creates a new being in a normal pregnancy, but this was anything but normal. Jesus always existed. He was not created by the implanting of an egg within a young girl. The being that was Yeshua was also God and he has no beginning or end. His divinity knew no birth because it always was. Mary was merely the vessel to carry the God-man. Not literally the mother of God.

The second person of the Trinity existed from eternity. But He took flesh in the womb of Mary and became both a human being and a divine being.
Mary was the mother of that person. She was and is the Mother of God.

Yes, the word used at the Council of Ephesus was theotokos - in contrast to Nestorious who wanted to call her Christotokos. But Mother of God is correct.
Here is an extract from the OthodoxWiki

Translating the word Theotokos
While some languages used by various Orthodox churches often have a single native word for Theotokos, it gets translated into English in a number of ways. The most common is Mother of God, though God-bearer and Birth-giver to God are also fairly common. There are difficulties with all these translations, however. The most literally correct one is Birth-giver to God, though God-bearer comes close. Theophoros (Θεοφορος) is the Greek term usually and more correctly translated as God-bearer, so using God-bearer for Theotokos in some sense "orphans" Theophoros when it comes time to translate that term (for St. Ignatius of Antioch, for instance). The main difficulties with both these translations for Theotokos is that they are a bit awkward and difficult to sing.
The most popular translation, Mother of God, is accurate to a point, but the difficulty with that one is that Mother of God is the literal translation of another Greek phrase which is found on nearly all icons of the Theotokos: Μητηρ Θεου (Meter Theou), usually in the standard iconographic abbreviation of ΜΡ ΘΥ. Additionally, a number of hymns employ both Theotokos and Meter Theou—translating both as Mother of God can yield some rather nonsensical language, and it destroys the distinction that the hymnographer intended.
The usage that seems to be dominant in English-speaking Orthodox churches in North America is to adopt the original term itself into English (something English speakers have traditionally done with foreign words almost since the earliest known history of the language), transliterating it simply as Theotokos. British usage gives preference to translating Theotokos as Mother of God.
Theotokos - OrthodoxWiki

 

[amigo de christo]

Dear Christian friend in Christ.

I used to ponder these things before I had spent much time reading scripture. I don't anymore. While scripture isn't always crystal clear on some questions, the Catholics (and other heretics) are GUILTY of adding to scripture which Revelation says is serious sin.

Christian maturity changes everything. Your point is excellent. God seems to be missing from the Catholic church, replaced by Mary, the Saints, etc.

Thanks for the reminder . I was not really wondering about it . I was trying to help others understand
that all we need to do is stick to scripture . But thanks for the wonderful reminder anyway sister .
Let us rejoice in the Lord .

 

[Renniks]

So why speculate that she sinned?
Gabriel came from God and just found a girl....Hey Girl, guess what? You can be the next contestant on.....
This gets real deep.

No speculation about her sinning, when scripture tells me all have.

 

[Renniks]

I do not think there are two Paradise.
But Paradise is not Heaven and the thief and Christ were not headed to Heaven.

So, there was a heaven and a paradise? Same thing. I have no reason to believe that to be the case unless what you are calling heaven is the physical sky or outer space.

 

[theefaith]

I personally the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints to be the one. This is not because somebody told me it was so (that's highly irrelevant), but the result of much personal study & prayer. I do find that to be Christ's one true church, founded before this world was even made. There are underlying difference in understanding of verses such as Matthew 16:18.

And as I respect your choice in this matter, I also request that you respect mine.

respect of course, I’ve been a catholic all my life and no one has ever told me to reply in a certain way, the lds cant be be the true church, cos Jesus Christ founded the true church 2000 yrs ago and lds was founded by JS a few hundred years ago, no man has authority to found a church, blessings

 

[Grailhunter]

Cop out to the max degree.

“Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Trying to muddy the works up with speculation reveals that you are not prepared to deal with what Jesus said.

What are you looking for?

 

[theefaith]

So you think that Joseph was Christ's father?

Yes he is the father of Jesus!
Lk 2:41 Lk 2:48 Jn 1:45
But there’s more than one kind of father, Joseph is the Legal father of Jesus!

 

[Grailhunter]

So, there was a heaven and a paradise? Same thing. I have no reason to believe that to be the case unless what you are calling heaven is the physical sky or outer space.

Your mistake is common. Your thinking that Heaven and Hell are the only possible spiritual destinations.

 

[Grailhunter]

Yes he is the father of Jesus!
Lk 2:41 Lk 2:48 Jn 1:45
But there’s more than one kind of father, Joseph is the Legal father of Jesus!

Well it depends lol Legal or adopted....or both. It was a secret that was kept.

 

[Grailhunter]

No speculation about her sinning, when scripture tells me all have.

Certainly, all have sin and have fallen short of the glory of God...Like I said it was impossible to keep the Mosaic Law in that time period. But then again, no sin that was worth noting in the scriptures...the only sin involved is adultery. God impregnating a woman that was engaged was considered adultery by the Mosaic Law and Jews. Punishable by death. The Bible address this indirectly when it tells of Joseph thinking of putting her away quietly, in attempt to prevent accusations. Matthew 1:19 "And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man and not wanting to disgrace her, planned to send her away secretly."

 

[Marymog]

As for other things Rome teaches , i suggest we start making void any of those teaches which are contrary to the truth .
There are many of them. But i do not have the time to list them all. My prayers are for you.

Hi amigo de Christo,

I have a suggestion. Since you know that there are many things that The Church teaches that are contrary to the truth why don't you take the time and write them all down in a book sooooooo that EVERYONE will know the truth instead of just you? ;)

My prayers are with you on this great book writing endeavor!!

 

[Marymog]

You must be reading some Catholic propaganda. The Bible teaches something else. Jesus spoke in the Temples and enraged the hierarchy. Threw the money changers out of the Temples. Jesus was crucified by the hierarchy and you seem to be cheering that. The Catholic hierarchy is deplorable.

Ummm......no propaganda here. I quoted Jesus sooooo if you think HE is propaganda then that is on you. The money changers have nothing to do with hierarchy sooooo there's that. I see you can't provide any passages from scripture of Jesus saying ignore hierarchy. All you have are your personal opinion soooo there's that...


Who is in your hierarchy?