Perpetual virginity of Mary!

[K9Buck]

With that said, it seems that the great John MacArthur disagrees with me and believes that Mary was a sinner. The scripture he quotes is compelling.

 

[Spurgeon's Girl]

If Mark 2:22 is true, then it seems likely that Mary was born perfect and without sin in preparation for her most holy mission.

Mark 2:22, KJV: "And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles." ... For the wine would burst the wineskins, and the wine and the skins would both be lost.

I'm happy to concede what might be true. But the entire Catholic church is guessing. I believe the scriptures. God Speed.

 

[Spurgeon's Girl]

With that said, it seems that the great John MacArthur disagrees with me and believes that Mary was a sinner. The scripture he quotes is compelling.

Thanks. I love John MacArthur, I used to attend his church when I lived in California.

 

[K9Buck]

Although this verse doesn't seem to match what MacArthur quoted.

Mary’s Song
(1 Samuel 2:1–11)

46Then Mary said:

“My soul magnifies the Lord,47and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior!48For He has looked with favor on the humble state of His servant.

From now on all generations will call me blessed.49For the Mighty One has done great things for me.

Holy is His name.50His mercy extends to those who fear Him,

from generation to generation.51He has performed mighty deeds with His arm;

He has scattered those who are proud

in the thoughts of their hearts.52He has brought down rulers from their thrones,

but has exalted the humble.53He has filled the hungry with good things,

but has sent the rich away empty.54He has helped His servant Israel,

remembering to be merciful,55as He promised to our fathers,

to Abraham and his descendants forever.”

 

[Spurgeon's Girl]

Although this verse doesn't seem to match what MacArthur quoted.

Mary’s Song
(1 Samuel 2:1–11)

46Then Mary said:

“My soul magnifies the Lord,47and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior!48For He has looked with favor on the humble state of His servant.

From now on all generations will call me blessed.49For the Mighty One has done great things for me.

Holy is His name.50His mercy extends to those who fear Him,

from generation to generation.51He has performed mighty deeds with His arm;

He has scattered those who are proud

in the thoughts of their hearts.52He has brought down rulers from their thrones,

but has exalted the humble.53He has filled the hungry with good things,

but has sent the rich away empty.54He has helped His servant Israel,

remembering to be merciful,55as He promised to our fathers,

to Abraham and his descendants forever.”

It does indeed. :)

 

[K9Buck]

I'm happy to concede what might be true. But the entire Catholic church is guessing. I believe the scriptures. God Speed.

I'm not basing anything on Catholicism.

I have no idea if Mary was born perfect, or not, or if she sinned, or not. My guess is that she was perfect always. In any event, it's ok to have a different belief on this minor point. One day, we'll have all the answers! Praise God!

 

[K9Buck]

It does indeed. :)

MacArthur said (or implied) that Mary was speaking of Jesus. This scripture says "God", not "Jesus".

 

[Spurgeon's Girl]

MacArthur said (or implied) that Mary was speaking of Jesus. This scripture says "God", not "Jesus".

Mary's song is in the OT. Jesus had not been born except in the sense of being with God before the foundation of the world.

 

[K9Buck]

MacArthur said (or implied) that Mary was speaking of Jesus. This scripture says "God", not "Jesus".

Ok, so in watching the video again, MacArthur interchanges "God" and "Jesus".

In any event, this remains a gray area for me but, like I said, it's a minor point.

 

[K9Buck]

Mary's song is in the OT. Jesus had not been born except in the sense of being with God before the foundation of the world.

Let's change it up.

Do you believe that Mary has been visiting humans and performing miracles on behalf of Christians?

 

[farouk]

Matthew 1 makes it clear that the Lord Jesus was Mary's firstborn Son; that is, she had others...

 

[Mungo]

Perhaps the Catholic Church might want to invest in the genealogy records. Lacking that, the book known as the Holy Bible says this:

Mark 6:3

3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.

Matthew 13:55-56

55 Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? 56 And are not all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?”

Mark 3:31-32

31 And his mother and his brothers came, and standing outside they sent to him and called him. 32 And a crowd was sitting around him, and they said to him, “Your mother and your brothers are outside, seeking you.”

Galatians 1:19

19 But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord's brother.

Yep Jesus had brothers, the Bible tells me so. Once again, the entire issue of Mary's perpetual virginity proves to be more "made-up" dogma without a scintilla of scripture to support it.

None of your quotes are a genealogy.
None of those quotes say Mary had other children.
The Bible only ever names one child of Mary - Jesus.

 

[Mungo]

Matthew 1 makes it clear that the Lord Jesus was Mary's firstborn Son; that is, she had others...

Firstborn does not mean onlyborn. That was explained in post #33. But to save you going back I'llrepeat it here.

For the ancient Jews firstborn meant the child that opened the womb (Ex. 13:2; Num. 3:12). Under the Mosaic Law, it was the "first-born" son that was to be sanctified (Ex. 34:20). Did this mean the parents had to wait until a second son was born before they could call their first the "first-born"? Hardly. The first male child of a marriage was termed the "first-born" even if he turned out to be the only child of the marriage.

Moreover to be the ‘first-born’ was a very important title in that culture, since among other things, it implied the person would receive two thirds of the inheritance. It does not refer only to the fact of being the first one to be born, since the older son, even if the only one would be called ‘first-born’. Heb 1:6 is a reference to God sending his first-born Son into the world. Who would be others sent by God with the same dignity as Jesus?

‘First-born’ refers to a privilege, without having to have had other sons or children. If the ‘first-born’ were at the same time the ‘only-born’, the first title would count for more.

 

[theefaith]

The Bible says no such thing. Idolatry is a serious sin. I pray you will reconsider. When Mary becomes more important than Jesus Christ, that is absolute blasphemy.

no one say Mary is more important than Jesus that’s your assumption, Jesus is God, king and savior not Mary!

 

[theefaith]

Blessed, not co-mediatrix. God has no mother. Rank idolatry. In fact I can show you how much the Catholic Church values Mary over Jesus.

God does have a mother, not the Godhead but the second person of the Trinity is God and Mary is His mother. Lk 1:43

 

[theefaith]

Where EXACTLY does the Bible state that Mary was born without sin? Where oh where is it? You folks keep saying that, but no one has ever shown me that from the scripture. This is simply more 'made-up' doctrine without any scripture to back it up.

gen 3:15 enmity none of satans works are in Her, and without Her being conceived immaculate without original sin Jesus would have contracted original sin thru Her.

 

[theefaith]

Is it possible that Mary was, per God's will, an exception? Is it possible that the Holy Spirit willed that Mary would be born perfect in order to fulfill her mission to carry Jesus into this world?

If not, do you really believe that our holy father would place our holy savior into a sinful womb? If so, why are you certain that he did?

we can’t have Satan accusing Jesus of being the son of a sinner!


Ark of the new covenant!
God dwelt in Mary’s womb for 9 months, remember the ark was incorruptible wood covered with pure gold signifying Mary’s immaculate purity!
read exodus or any place in the Old Testament where something came into contact with God or was consecrated to the service of God it had to be pure and Holy!
In the ark was the word of God!
In Mary the new ark is the living Word!
In the ark was the mana!
In Mary was the bread come down from heaven!
Bethlehem means house to of bread!

Sinless yes! Gen 3:15 I will put enmity between thee and the woman, none of satan’s works are found in her!

 

[theefaith]

Last time I checked, a womb doesn’t run around sinning. And God ‘s glory is in no way affected by any mortal.

Read exodus anything connected to or consecrated to God has to be holy and pure! Even touching the ark meant death

 

[theefaith]

Blessed, not co-mediatrix. God has no mother. Rank idolatry. In fact I can show you how much the Catholic Church values Mary over Jesus.

Why is Mary blessed? Lk 1:28

 

[theefaith]

Perhaps the Catholic Church might want to invest in the genealogy records. Lacking that, the book known as the Holy Bible says this:

Mark 6:3

3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.

Matthew 13:55-56

55 Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? 56 And are not all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?”

Mark 3:31-32

31 And his mother and his brothers came, and standing outside they sent to him and called him. 32 And a crowd was sitting around him, and they said to him, “Your mother and your brothers are outside, seeking you.”

Galatians 1:19

19 But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord's brother.

Yep Jesus had brothers, the Bible tells me so. Once again, the entire issue of Mary's perpetual virginity proves to be more "made-up" dogma without a scintilla of scripture to support it.

Perpetual Virginity of Mary!

Mary conceived "without any detriment to her virginity, which remained inviolate even after his birth" (Council of the Lateran, 649)

Perpetual Virginity of Mary!

The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!

And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!

Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)

Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”

Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.

(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)

Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
(The Bible says only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary)

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(A son singular) (does James save his people?)

Lk 1:28 Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee!

Blessed art thou amongst all women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
(The fruit of Her womb is blessed and holy)

Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
(A son, singular)

Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s a vow of perpetual virginity, She refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God and mother of our savior if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Her son is God)

Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!

First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!

Brothers and sisters of Jesus?

They are not the children of Mary!

Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)

James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3

In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.

Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..

Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.

Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!

Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!