With So Many Denominations...

[marks]

rather than what is it?

Where does this lead?

 

[bbyrd009]

Adam was naked, right?

well...ok, but naked is surely being used as an analogy?

 

[marks]

well...ok, but naked is surely being used as an analogy?

for what?

It was OK, and then it wasn't.

 

[bbyrd009]

for what?

It was OK, and then it wasn't.

consider a three year old, past the age where they are comfortable literally naked, but still having no problems being revealed to be in error on some subject; they are not ashamed of being "naked" so to speak, not knowing the "facts" iow, living in "what is it?" as an MO, say

 

[bbyrd009]

Where does this lead?

ha to a place we dont wanna go!


we're tired of this manna, give us some meat to eat!

 

[marks]

I believe that there is a "me" that chooses to go the way of the "new man" or the way of the "old man". The "me" is perhaps the inner man mentioned here:

"That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;" Eph 3:16

I've been giving some thought to this very thing lately, as I realize that a number of people do seem to think of things this way, that there is a new man, and an old man, and a third man who chooses between them.

I've been considering the implications of this and have some issues with it.

One of them is the passage which says that we were slaves to sin, but we've become slaves to righteousness.

Then there is Paul in Romans 7 contrasting the flesh with himself, and speaking of the body and the inner man.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

unless we, that "me" [the inner man] choose to quench the Holy Spirit in us [the power of God in us]. Paul warns us against doing that.

I see this as something that comes from the old man, the flesh.

Much love!

 

[marks]

ha to a place we dont wanna go!


we're tired of this manna, give us some meat to eat!

I think we've gotta get past that.

:)

 

[marks]

ha to a place we dont wanna go!


we're tired of this manna, give us some meat to eat!

What happens when all you eat is manna? If you are willing to receive it?

 

[bbyrd009]

We are confident, [I say],
and willing rather to be absent
from the body, and to be
present with the Lord.

helps to read some other xlations there, "willing" becomes "and even wish we were..."

plus note how soma is being played with, somati, somatos, etc

 

[bbyrd009]

What happens when all you eat is manna? If you are willing to receive it?

boy, i dunno, small doses is about all i can manage myself lol, i mean i was born and raised hegelian, and naive dialect is foreign to me too. Briefly, in the West you will be perceived as of no account, and prolly ignorant, most of the time? You wont get picked to be captain of the team, chicks wont be attracted to you, etc

heaven, iow :)

 

[amadeus]

I believe we enter into eternal life in the present time, and we should be living accordingly.

Now, to be sure, I think there are glories and pleasures that we will know that will be much greater than anything we will know in this life, just the same, no, we mustn't short-change ourselves here!

Much love!

Just be careful with that. I believe that you are [?] but others look for too much here in the way of pleasure and good times here on planet Earth. We may receive them but consider the case of Stephen in the book of Acts. He died physically a young man having probably very little good in the way of the material things of this before they stoned him to death. We may not all have that kind of an end, but we need to ask God to help us be ready to drink whatever cup it is that He puts before us.

On Time, people worry too much about time and dwell on it too much... including it seems some believers. We do need to come to feel about time as expressed here.

"Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Matt 6:34

And then as it is to the Lord, should it not be also to us?

"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." II Peter 3:8

 

[marks]

Just be careful with that. I believe that you are [?] but others look for too much here in the way of pleasure and good times here on planet Earth. We may receive them but consider the case of Stephen in the book of Acts. He died physically a young man having probably very little good in the way of the material things of this before they stoned him to death. We may not all have that kind of an end, but we need to ask God to help us be ready to drink whatever cup it is that He puts before us.

On Time, people worry too much about time and dwell on it too much... including it seems some believers. We do need to come to feel about time as expressed here.

"Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Matt 6:34

And then as it is to the Lord, should it not be also to us?

"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." II Peter 3:8

Hi amadeus,

Yes, the pendulum can swing either way, all our hopes here, all our hopes there, for me, the Real Answer is Jesus, here with me now.

All we have is this moment, right now. The past has ceased to exist, and is a memory. The future, not even that! Only this moment, to be spent communing with our Creator, and if we are just doing that, everything is in His hands.

We're told afflictions here bring glory in the age to come, but we aren't to seek affliction for affliction's sake. We simply accept what comes whether good or bad in our eyes, trusting Jesus, and enduring affliction, and following in whatever He leads us.

This is really why I consider understanding our justification to be so important, so we don't draw back from God.

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

I've been giving some thought to this very thing lately, as I realize that a number of people do seem to think of things this way, that there is a new man, and an old man, and a third man who chooses between them.

I've been considering the implications of this and have some issues with it.

One of them is the passage which says that we were slaves to sin, but we've become slaves to righteousness.

Then there is Paul in Romans 7 contrasting the flesh with himself, and speaking of the body and the inner man.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.



I see this as something that comes from the old man, the flesh.

Much love!

I don't believe that really we are that far apart on this. I won't discuss in more depth at the moment because much of what I might say would likely be speculation or simply belief on my part. We keep on reading and studying and talking to God and letting Him form and reform things in us as we continue striving to give Him the leading role in everything. As we do this additional little, or big, glimpses of the whole picture may be revealed to us... but we shouldn't be surprised to find that when we mention them to some people they would be strongly opposed... and these are not unbelievers...

 

[marks]

Just be careful with that. I believe that you are [?]

I think I just realized what you meant.

The pleasures I'm speaking about are the joy of communing with my Creator, and the joy of serving others in love. The joy of trusting Him completely. The joy of being afflicted knowing God is building glory and fruitfulness. Like that.

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

I think I just realized what you meant.

The pleasures I'm speaking about are the joy of communing with my Creator, and the joy of serving others in love. The joy of trusting Him completely. The joy of being afflicted knowing God is building glory and fruitfulness. Like that.

Much love!

Amen! Give God the glory!

 

[bbyrd009]

What happens when all you eat is manna? If you are willing to receive it?

ok i guess i have as much ego as anyone else, but i just developed an immunity to other peoples opinion of me, particularly if it came from Adam, i guess as a defense mech on my father? And as their "facts," or at least usually some crucial fact, is off imo, i just learned to yield real early--not bother to explain or refute, bc pointless--and also detach from the world, maybe due to some ass burgers but who knows. The truth always comes out later anyway :)

so, when all you eat is manna
you lose your fear of entropy, and dissociate with whatever "yesterday" you deem ideal
you recognize that what obtains today will not necessarily obtain tomorrow;
you will never see that flower again
today gets a lot more interesting i guess
bc when you stop knowing everything you look for what you dont maybe?
ha everything you know is wrong lol
every. single. thing.

make a statement of Absolute Truth if you think you can lol
anyway what else
ah you stop driving
ha screw that

what does what is it? as an mo maybe mean to you?
i just pitcher a little kid :)
life is still almost like a dream or whatever?
never know whats gonna happen next?
i could be walking down the road tomorrow, with nothing

ha but i looked back

What happens when all you eat is manna? If you are willing to receive it?

you become like water, and learn to flow away from some stuff and toward other stuff?
go to another town
dont talk to anyone on the road
dont go like a chump would
to a drug dealer or pimp
stay in one house when you get there
eat what they feed you

which i pretty much bailed on every one lol

 

[bbyrd009]

I believe we enter into eternal life in the present time, and we should be living accordingly.

ty

 

[bbyrd009]

What is your idea on this part:

manna

Now, to be sure

death

I think there are glories and pleasures that we will know that will be much greater than anything we will know in this life

beware the thief in the night
no one
has ever
gone up to heaven
there is only One Immortal
you and your sons will be here with me

just the same, no, we mustn't

aw, see, you did it again. thats a law now, see

 

[bbyrd009]

we do not yet know what we will become i guess you can take to the bank tho, but
the dead know nothing, neither...and i would sure be contemplating them other vv up there too

so i mean face the Awful Truth at some point?
things get amazingly better after that
maybe forty years after that ok but hey

 

[Episkopos]

This is where I am at the moment on this.

Is not the physical body a temporary vessel holding us that is dying whether we are serving God or not? It seems you are asking if the physical body is equal to the "old man" Paul mentions? I believe that there is a "me" that chooses to go the way of the "new man" or the way of the "old man". The "me" is perhaps the inner man mentioned here:

"That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;" Eph 3:16

I guess I had an inkling of what was the truth of the matter before, but @Episkopos some time ago in one of his OPs clarified what it was I thought I was seeing/understanding the difference between the new man and the inner man. I cannot recall now which thread it was.

Before meeting the Master, our direction usually and generally follows [consider those in the OT such as Moses and David for apparent exceptions?] the ways of the old man. Upon meeting the Master we have another real option, the Way of the new man. The one that does the choosing is "the inner man". The inner man effectively chooses Life or death.

Our physical body is involved because that is the source of our physical perceptions via vision, smell, taste, hearing and touch plus the conclusions made by the carnal mind. Those senses as we know can be and at times most certainly are deceptive. The old man, [really separate from the body of flesh] uses these natural perceptions in the process of making decisions. Before the "new man" is born, the inner man has little choice but to follow the lead of the old man. Until born again or from above, each person is dead anyway...

When there is no new man [as in unbelievers] an "old man" will certainly make some serious mistakes even though trying his best to do 'good'. He needed the law of God and some man of God or priest according the OT... but let's not get into that here.

The "new man" is the one that can and should make the difference for us. Some people believe that with the advent of the new man in us, salvation is a done thing. I disagree with that.

We are to work on killing our "old man" something only made possible because of the existence of the "new man" in us. Killing the old man is not killing the physical body as in a physical suicide. It is winning the final battle within ourselves. The battles are between the "old man" and the "new man". The "new man" will always win every battle, unless we, that "me" [the inner man] choose to quench the Holy Spirit in us [the power of God in us]. Paul warns us against doing that.

Jesus had all of these battles in himself for he had all of the same temptations that we do. He never lost any battles and won the final battle, I believe, in the Garden of Gethsemene [Matt 26:39]. Then he had overcome the world of his own temptations [John 16:33]. Then he was no longer in the world of his temptations [John 17:11] even though he still had the cross before him. He had to suffer and die, but he was no longer tempted to find a way out for the sake of his flesh. His 'old man' was already dead, killed once and for all in Gethsemene... but his physical body was still alive. On the cross that died!

yes...the inner man is our weak central person that Jesus came to save. We put on Christ (the new man) as our strength by entering INTO Him. Also called the armour of light.

To be strong in Christ means we need to put off the power of the flesh...the old man..first. When we are weak then God completes us by giving us His spiritual covering.

The new man is put ON us. We are the inner man. Although we usually identify with the outer carnal man. Doctrines today seek to save the outer man along with the inner man, But that cannot happen. The cross must take away the outer man to give the inner man access to God and His grace.

It gets a bit technical I guess. :)