@Prayer Warrior I think that when the scientific gets mixed up with the political, unhealthy things can happen...
Lancet retracts bogus study claiming hydroxychloroquine to be ineffective against COVID-19
- Thread starter Prayer Warrior
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
@Prayer Warrior .... also when business collides with science: I know it's necessary but the commercial influence of huge corporations can be unhealthy also...
Yehren, fair warning to you: if you turn this thread into a Trump-hating/mocking thread, I will ask a mod to shut it down. We're not doing that here. You can disapprove of his policies all day long, but I hate to see anyone mercilessly mocked.
I'm pointing out that the claims against Trump that he's doing it for personal gain are not true:
Yes. It's not that Trump is looking to make a lot of money from this; it's political:
(Yehren shakes his head, and walks away)
I posted links to actual studies of the issue. You will find therein, some studies that suggest some benefit. Most don't. And some indicate it could be dangerous. (such as the VA study, where more patients died after being given the drug, than those who were not given the drug)
If you look at all the evidence, you immediately see that the question has not yet been resolved. Which is why the FDA won't approve it except for emergency use.
HHS said the emergency authorization was issued because the potential benefits of the product outweigh the risks and acknowledged that “anecdotal reports suggest that these drugs may offer some benefit in the treatment of hospitalized COVID-19 patients,” but cautioned that “clinical trials are needed to provide scientific evidence that these treatments are effective.”
FDA Authorizes Anti-Malarial Drugs C
roquine And Hydroxycroquine For Emergency Coronavirus Treatment
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/...il&utm_term=0_90d9431cd5-a5c0a299a0-126967137
Covid-19: Lancet retracts paper that halted hydroxyc
Retraction made after Guardian investigation found inconsistencies in data
The Lancet paper that halted global trials of hydroxyc
The lead author, Prof Mandeep Mehra, from the Brigham and Women’s hospital in Boston, Massachusetts decided to ask the Lancet for the retraction because he could no longer vouch for the data’s accuracy.
The journal’s editor, Richard Horton, said he was appalled by developments. “This is a shocking example of research misconduct in the middle of a global health emergency,” he told the Guardian.
A Guardian investigation had revealed errors in the data that was provided for the research by US company Surgisphere. These were later explained by the company as some patients being wrongly allocated to Australia instead of Asia. But more anomalies were then picked up. A further Guardian investigation found that there were serious questions to be asked about the company itself.
An independent audit company was asked to examine a database provided by Surgisphere to ensure it had the data from more than 96,000 Covid-19 patients in 671 hospitals worldwide, that it was obtained properly and was accurate.
Surgisphere’s CEO, Sapan Desai, had said he would cooperate with the independent audit, but it is understood he refused to give the investigators access to all the data they asked for.
In a statement on Thursday, Mehra said: “Our independent peer reviewers informed us that Surgisphere would not transfer the full dataset, client contracts, and the full ISO audit report to their servers for analysis as such transfer would violate client agreements and confidentiality requirements. As such, our reviewers were not able to conduct an independent and private peer review and therefore notified us of their withdrawal from the peer-review process.”
The Lancet study had a dramatic impact on attempts to find out whether the antimalarial drug hydroxyc
The World Health Organization and several countries suspended randomised controlled trials that were set up to find an answer. Those trials have now been restarted. Many scientists were angry that they had been stopped on the basis of a trial that was observational and not a “gold standard” RCT.
Mehra had commissioned an independent audit of the data after scientists questioned it.
In its investigation, the Guardian put a detailed list of concerns to Desai about the database, the study findings and his background. He responded: “There continues to be a fundamental misunderstanding about what our system is and how it works.
“There are also a number of inaccuracies and unrelated connections that you are trying to make with a clear bias toward attempting to discredit who we are and what we do,” he said. “We do not agree with your premise or the nature of what you have put together, and I am sad to see that what should have been a scientific discussion has been denigrated into this sort of discussion.”
Shortly after the Lancet retracted its study, the New England Journal of Medicine retracted a paper based on the Surgisphere database, also co-authored by Mehra and Desai. The study purported to include data from Covid-19 patients from 169 hospitals in 11 countries in Asia, Europe and North America. It found common drugs given for heart disease were not associated with a higher risk of death in Covid-19 patients.
In a statement, published by the journal, the authors said: “Because all the authors were not granted access to the raw data and the raw data could not be made available to a third-party auditor, we are unable to validate the primary data sources underlying our article, ‘Cardiovascular Disease, Drug Therapy, and Mortality in Covid-19’. We therefore request that the article be retracted.
“We apologise to the editors and to readers of the Journal for the difficulties that this has caused.”
Source: Covid-19: Lancet retracts paper that halted hydroxyc
C
roquine has so far come up with trial results the same as taking nothing.Now it might individually help some, for some unknown reason, but statistically its benefit does not exist for the general population.
This is why blind trials are done, so that there is no bias, or predicting the result prior to the test.
Now this does not invalidate test tube trials that show zinc blocks the virus, but rather delivery of zinc to the body via tablets does not show any value in stopping Covid-19. And this is the simple goal, a drug that by taking it, has a measurable effect.
Science has shown many drugs which in isolation benefit the defence of cells on the micro scale, but when applied to a patient have no effect, because the complexity in the whole body invalidates or stops this effect. The research to find out why and the time to resolve such issues often invalidates the effort, so such things get left alone.
Some drugs are so bad, they actually harm the patient, or kill them, so much care has to be taken at each step.
One drug killed bacteria, very effectively. It cured some patients suffering from a very unusual condition but destroyed all their mitochondria. They lived 3 days after getting the drug. Another drug was trialed for weight loss, but destroyed arteries and gave all the patients aneurysms, which could instantly kill them, a high price to try and lose weight. A simple health drink, tea tablets, but at high dosage levels, killed peoples livers.
So when people say this is a simple conspiracy, they do not know what they are talking about, and great care needs to be taken.
God bless you
Taken
Well-Known Member
There is NO "ONE" wonder drug Suitable For Every Person!
Many drugs are harmful IF mixed with other Drugs!
Nearly 70% of people in the US are on a Diet of prescription drugs.
A couple of others are on a Diet of non-prescription drugs.
Excluding a "testing" of any Drugs as a remedy for a wide spread Viral Infection is Irresponsible....Just as it would be Irresponsible for Drug users to Consume/take Drugs that do not mix safely with their routine regular Diet of drugs.
As a non-user of any drugs...seems funny to me in a Nation of drug lovers, non-scientists are against any drug related remedy that may aid ONE person.
Doesn't "their" life matter? (Snicker).
True.
Just as it would be irresponsible to use drugs that have not been shown to be safe and effective.
As a biologist, my experience is that non-scientists are far more likely to endorse a drug that has not been shown to be safe or effective. This certainly has been the case with hydroxyc
roquine. This is why the FDA will not approve the drug for general use, but would allow it for extreme situations. It might help, but the evidence at this point is generally negative. That being so, the agency (which is run by physicians and scientists will restrict it to protect the general public.Not to those who want to have unrestricted use of a dangerous drug, it seems.
Taken
Well-Known Member
True.
Just as it would be irresponsible to use drugs that have not been shown to be safe and effective.
As a biologist, my experience is that non-scientists are far more likely to endorse a drug that has not been shown to be safe or effective. This certainly has been the case with hydroxyc
Not to those who want to have unrestricted use of a dangerous drug, it seems.
As a healthy human, I find unhealthy people are willing to try most anything to preserve their life, without regard to some bureaucrat, politician, scientist, or other man's opinion or approval.
I remember people with terminal cancer fleeing to Mexico to try out various quack remedies. What did they have to lose? But the FDA is obligated to make sure drugs are safe and effective for specific purposes before approving them.
Taken
Well-Known Member
The FDA can not make sure (guarantee) food or drugs are safe.
There are regularly recalls of food and drugs.
Fleeing From What?
Perfection is not something humans can do.
Usually, for violating manufacturing or sanitation standards. Some drugs turn out to have effects from years of use that are not easily detected in shorter-term studies. And there's sometimes been some political pressure to approve drugs.
FDA regulations. Some nations have lower standards for drugs.
Similar threads
