True Trinity.

[justbyfaith]

Jeremiah 4:3.

 

[justbyfaith]

Jesus, Adam with another name,

Jesus is said to be the Last Adam; however this does not mean that He is Adam returned to earth.

Adam fell into sin and became a sinner; Jesus was without sin.

Jesus is also God; while Adam was merely a man created by God.

 

[justbyfaith]

It is but mere sound doctrine that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh (1 john 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7) and that the Father is an eternal Spirit who inhabiteth eternity (Isaiah 57:15).

 

[101G]

Jeremiah 4:3.

I like the one just above that scripture... Jeremiah 4:2 "And thou shalt swear, The LORD liveth, in truth, in judgment, and in righteousness; and the nations shall bless themselves in him, and in him shall they glory."


Rocky Wiley said: ↑
Jesus, Adam with another name,
Jesus is said to be the Last Adam; however this does not mean that He is Adam returned to earth.

Adam fell into sin and became a sinner; Jesus was without sin.

Jesus is also God; while Adam was merely a man created by God.
*****************************************************
JBF, consider what Rocky Wiley said, and examine these scripture, Isaiah 46:10 "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"

now, if man was made in God Image, in order to have an image one must have a "SOURCE" that the image came from. is not the Lord Jesus the "FIRST" man in the NEW CREATION? see we think time is linear, not with God. as one poster put it, we see only the beginning and the end of a parade . but God sees the beginning and the end at the same time. hence one of his titles, "the FIRST" and "the LAST"

yes, he's the LAST Adam of NATURAL existence, but he, God, the Lord Jesus is the First Man with everlasting existence with a glorified .... "BODY"

NOW come what is at the Heart of this discussion, "the same, but distinct?".

Jesus is the First man from the "END", he's called the NEW CREATION and it is he who acquired that New creation, by his OWN POWER/ARM. once again, Isaiah 46:10 "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"

see Jesus was here as a man not yet manifested but was to come, listen,
Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

it seem like, "us", and "our", appears to be a plurality of God, but Isaiah 44:24 clearly states that he the "LORD" was ALONE, and BY HIMSELF when he made all things. and Genesis 1:27 seem to affirm just that, lets see. Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

well, well, well, "his", and "he", don't sound like a plurality. and this is witness to by Genesis 5:1 "This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;"
Genesis 5:2 "Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created." well this is the second witness to say God is a single PERSON who created and made all things.

so what gives in Genesis 1:26 with the "us" and the "our?", here it is, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come." BINGO, that which was to come. that figure, that IMAGE of man was made from the first MAN of the New CREATION, and God showed that FIGURE over and over, lets see the scriptures that tells us just that. Hosea 12:10 "I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets."

so what is a similitudes, it is the Hebrew word, H1819 דָּמָה damah (daw-maw') v.
1. to compare.
2. (by implication) to resemble, liken, consider. there is ADAM IMAGE
[a primitive root]
KJV: compare, devise, (be) like(-n), mean, think, use similitudes.

notice definition #2. to resemble, liken, consider lets see this in scripture, Daniel 3:25 "He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God."
lets see another, Genesis 14:18 "And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.", who is he? Hebrews 7:3 "Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually."

ther's that term, "Son of God", meaning a body... "Flesh and Bone"..... BINGO. that's that figure or similitudes which adam was made from... his Image... that similitudes that Abraham saw when he, Jesus was enroute to sodom and gomorrah to destroy it.

it's amazing, how God put all of this right in front of our noses and yet we cannot see it.

so you might want to reconsider what Rocky Wiley said.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

It is but mere sound doctrine that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh (1 john 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7) and that the Father is an eternal Spirit who inhabiteth eternity (Isaiah 57:15).

we suggest you read the post above #484

 

[justbyfaith]

Since I came across this scripture in my reading today I may as well quote it,

Gal 4:4, But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

 

[101G]

I am no longer sowing seeds in this thread, to attempt to convince @101G of my pov.

first thanks for the post, second, you will have to do better to convince anyone of your doctrine.

Since I came across this scripture in my reading today I may as well quote it,

Gal 4:4, But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

I like this one also, Galatians 4:6 "And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba,". Father."

and "Spirit" here is capitalized....... ;) ... BINGO.

so now, God sent his "Son", and the "Spirit" of his Son?....... (smile), man Oh man eyes that cannot see.

PICJAG.

 

[justbyfaith]

man Oh man eyes that cannot see.

Matthew 7:1-5; Luke 6:41-42.

 

[101G]

Matthew 7:1-5; Luke 6:41-42.

GINOLJC, to all.
first thanks for the reply, second, Romans 14:13 "Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way." this is what I been saying all along.

Now the stumblingblock in this discussion is this, "How did God, JESUS, come in flesh and bone, and yet upheld the entire universe.

I said he did it by "diversifying" his OWNSELF in the flesh and bone that he made in Mary's womb. and I explain it, by scriptures, with terms to back it up.
and in his coming, I also backed up scriptures with word definition to help one to understand what I was saying.

A. "Form", which is G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee'), and it Root word, G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) n. (his coming in flesh and bone, and yet his nature to uphold the universe while in that flesh).

B. "the numerical difference", found in the term, G243 Allos (al'-los), which support his nature as "ANOTHER" of himself, and it explain how he upholds the universe while in flesh. this describes his distinction, as the "Another" as in Spirit, as the Holy Spirit of his ownself while in the natural flesh and bones, in the likeness as a man. in doing this the Lord Jesus have taken away the "stumblingblock".

so, there is no excuse for anyone to have a stumblingblock in anyone's way. if there is something one cannot understand ... "ASK". for ye have not because ye ask not.

I have offered, and given you, JBF, the pleasure, (as always), to question, and examine me on ANY point of the doctrine I speak of. arguing from ignorance will never solve anything. asking questions ONE AT A TIME, AND NOT JUMPING AROUND WITH ANOTHER ANSWER OR STATEMENT, but if one stay on one question at a time and resolve it before moving on, then the TRUTH will come out. getting to the TRUTH is the objective, is is not?

so, I'll ask you first, and from scripture, (if you like, may use word definitions), to explain this, "how did God, JESUS, come in flesh and blood and yet upheld the universe, as the eternal Spirit, all at the same time?", (according as you say is the same ONE person, which I agree).

Looking to hear from you.

PICJAG

 

[Cooper]

GINOLJC, to all.
first thanks for the reply, second, Romans 14:13 "Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way." this is what I been saying all along.

Now the stumblingblock in this discussion is this, "How did God, JESUS, come in flesh and bone, and yet upheld the entire universe.

I said he did it by "diversifying" his OWNSELF in the flesh and bone that he made in Mary's womb. and I explain it, by scriptures, with terms to back it up.
and in his coming, I also backed up scriptures with word definition to help one to understand what I was saying.

A. "Form", which is G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee'), and it Root word, G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) n. (his coming in flesh and bone, and yet his nature to uphold the universe while in that flesh).

B. "the numerical difference", found in the term, G243 Allos (al'-los), which support his nature as "ANOTHER" of himself, and it explain how he upholds the universe while in flesh. this describes his distinction, as the "Another" as in Spirit, as the Holy Spirit of his ownself while in the natural flesh and bones, in the likeness as a man. in doing this the Lord Jesus have taken away the "stumblingblock".

so, there is no excuse for anyone to have a stumblingblock in anyone's way. if there is something one cannot understand ... "ASK". for ye have not because ye ask not.

I have offered, and given you, JBF, the pleasure, (as always), to question, and examine me on ANY point of the doctrine I speak of. arguing from ignorance will never solve anything. asking questions ONE AT A TIME, AND NOT JUMPING AROUND WITH ANOTHER ANSWER OR STATEMENT, but if one stay on one question at a time and resolve it before moving on, then the TRUTH will come out. getting to the TRUTH is the objective, is is not?

so, I'll ask you first, and from scripture, (if you like, may use word definitions), to explain this, "how did God, JESUS, come in flesh and blood and yet upheld the universe, as the eternal Spirit, all at the same time?", (according as you say is the same ONE person, which I agree).

Looking to hear from you.

PICJAG

No need for God to diversify. The work of creation was finished and it was good. God rested from that work and came to his own. Now he is preparing a place for us.
.

 

[101G]

No need for God to diversify. The work of creation was finished and it was good. God rested from that work and came to his own. Now he is preparing a place for us.
.

first thanks for the reply, second we don't agree with that assessment, and here's why. according to man, no, but not God. as for God his work for creation was finish, but man, that's the problem. and that problem is that, he, man/mankind sinned. and the solution was enacted. for God is alway at work on man's behalf.

with that said, "the sin problem", it had to be dealt with, for it entered into creation, and man needed redemption before he enters, as you put it, "Now he is preparing a place for us". in order to enter into God's place of rest, redemption was made in a sacrifice by God.

so, mind telling us how God made that sacrifice to redeem man? and if you just simply say, well God sent his "Son", good, but the Son, who is "equal" with God, per Phil 2:6, is he all of God who is a Spirit, (per John 4:24a), that came in the body of flesh to be a sacrifice. or was it a piece of God, or was it 1/3 of the Spirit person, which is God that came in flesh and blood as the sacrifice. which one? looking to hear your answer.

PICJAG.

 

[justbyfaith]

"How did God, JESUS, come in flesh and bone, and yet upheld the entire universe.

Jesus came in flesh and blood; for it is by His shed blood that we have been justified (Romans 5:9).

That His glorified body is only flesh and bone is still on the table...not sure I agree with that.

Bone marrow by nature produces blood....and therefore the blood of Jesus is an ever-flowing fountain, as the hymn goes.

I have also answered the question that you are asking in previous posts.

 

[101G]

Jesus came in flesh and blood; for it is by His shed blood that we have been justified (Romans 5:9).

That His glorified body is only flesh and bone is still on the table...not sure I agree with that.

Bone marrow by nature produces blood....and therefore the blood of Jesus is an ever-flowing fountain, as the hymn goes.

I have also answered the question that you are asking in previous posts.

thanks for the reply, second, we all know that he came in flesh and blood, but the question is HOW did he do it, and yet maintain the universe at the same time while he was in that flesh and blood

the options are,

A. all of God, meaning the Spirit was in that body
B. some of the Spirit was in that body, meaning the person of the Son who many say is God, (and God is not divided), so how much of the Spirit came, and was in the body.
C. none of the Spirit came.... (smile, lol), or
D. All of the Spirit "shared"/Diversified in that body which was G2758 κενόω kenoo

or you can take another choice, it's on you.

PICJAG.

 

[justbyfaith]

A.

see Ephesians 3:11.

God lived one eternal moment (see 2 Peter 3:8) and then descended to incarnate as the Son.

 

[justbyfaith]

Hi @101G,

I do believe that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, are absolutely ONE, so that the Father is the Son is the Holy Ghost.

However, I also see distinctions in their attributes, such as:

1) The Father is distinct from the Son in that He is an eternal, infinite Spirit (John 4:23-24) who inhabiteth eternity (Isaiah 57:15); while the Son is the same Spirit inhabiting a finite flesh human body (John 14:7-11; 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7);

2) The Son is distinct from the Holy Ghost in that the Holy Ghost is the Spirit that He released to the Father in Luke 23:46; and therefore He is the Spirit of Jesus not in flesh (2 Corinthians 3:17);

3) The Father is distinct from the Holy Ghost in that while they are the same, one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4,John 4:23-24, John 7:39), the Father (1st Person who inhabiteth eternity) has never experienced becoming human while the Holy Ghost (who is the after-incarnate Father) has lived a perfect human life (see Luke 23:46); and the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of truth, also proceedeth from the Father (John 15:26). Because the Son is the incarnated Father. And the Holy Ghost also ascended to be outside of time; even next to the Father (see John 1:1). While they are also the same Spirit (Ephesians 4:4).

The Spirit (the Holy Ghost) also maketh intercession to the Father (Romans 8:26-27) and is qualified to do so because He has lived a human life and therefore understands humanity.

 

[101G]

A.

Thanks, if A. then explain, Philippians 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:"
made of no reputation: is the Greek word, G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') v.
1. to make empty.
2. (figuratively) to abase, neutralize, falsify.
[from G2756]
KJV: make (of none effect, of no reputation, void), be in vain
Root(s): G2756

now, if God is made "EMPTY", and is "NEUTRALIZE" of his POWERS, no way he could have upheld the universe. that's just only one problem. now do you have an explanation ... "BY SCRIPTURE", on how all of God was "NEUTRALIZE" of his POWERS and kept the universe running at the same time... on earth as a man? looking to hear that answer.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

I do believe that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, are absolutely ONE, so that the Father is the Son is the Holy Ghost.

I agree 100%, but the sticking point is HOW is he the "Son", and the "Father" at the same time as, as, as, ONE PERSON.

that's the elephant, or distinction, in the room that no one wants to address.

PICJAG.

 

[justbyfaith]

Thanks, if A. then explain, Philippians 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:"
made of no reputation: is the Greek word, G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') v.
1. to make empty.
2. (figuratively) to abase, neutralize, falsify.
[from G2756]
KJV: make (of none effect, of no reputation, void), be in vain
Root(s): G2756

now, if God is made "EMPTY", and is "NEUTRALIZE" of his POWERS, no way he could have upheld the universe. that's just only one problem. now do you have an explanation ... "BY SCRIPTURE", on how all of God was "NEUTRALIZE" of his POWERS and kept the universe running at the same time... on earth as a man? looking to hear that answer.

PICJAG.

I've already given you the explanation, weren't you paying attention?

If anyone dwells in eternity, they are eternally there in eternity; and even if they were to descend out of eternity to become finite, they would not cease to dwell in eternity. For that is the nature of eternity.

So then, when the Father descended to incarnate as the Son, He also stayed behind in eternity. And from there He is able to uphold the Universe.

I agree 100%, but the sticking point is HOW is he the "Son", and the "Father" at the same time as, as, as, ONE PERSON.

that's the elephant, or distinction, in the room that no one wants to address.

PICJAG.

I think that I still don't understand where you are coming from on this.

Because from my perspective, what you have said is not in contradiction to anything that I believe (except that I do believe in the virgin conception/birth).

But you seem to think that what I am saying is in contradistinction to what you believe.

So, maybe you can explain a little but better what the difference is in what we believe as you see it, that you consider my doctrine to be wrong when I don't see much wrong in what you are saying except that I believe in the virgin birth that it is even an essential doctrine.

 

[101G]

I've already given you the explanation, weren't you paying attention?

If anyone dwells in eternity, they are eternally there in eternity; and even if they were to descend out of eternity to become finite, they would not cease to dwell in eternity. For that is the nature of eternity.

So then, when the Father descended to incarnate as the Son, He also stayed behind in eternity. And from there He is able to uphold the Universe.

Not to argue with you, but are you listing to yourself? you said "all of the Spirit, God was in that flesh, but now you're sayng, "they would not cease to dwell in eternity." but you answered "ALL OF GOD CAME AND WAS IN THAT BODY. the you said, "So then, when the Father descended to incarnate as the Son, He also stayed behind in eternity. And from there He is able to uphold the Universe."

well, how much stayed behind? but don't forget you said "all of him came".

so how much was left behind?

see your dilemma now?

PICJAG

 

[Cooper]

first thanks for the reply, second we don't agree with that assessment, and here's why. according to man, no, but not God. as for God his work for creation was finish, but man, that's the problem. and that problem is that, he, man/mankind sinned. and the solution was enacted. for God is alway at work on man's behalf.

with that said, "the sin problem", it had to be dealt with, for it entered into creation, and man needed redemption before he enters, as you put it, "Now he is preparing a place for us". in order to enter into God's place of rest, redemption was made in a sacrifice by God.

so, mind telling us how God made that sacrifice to redeem man? and if you just simply say, well God sent his "Son", good, but the Son, who is "equal" with God, per Phil 2:6, is he all of God who is a Spirit, (per John 4:24a), that came in the body of flesh to be a sacrifice. or was it a piece of God, or was it 1/3 of the Spirit person, which is God that came in flesh and blood as the sacrifice. which one? looking to hear your answer.
PICJAG.

God had to become one of us in order to redeem us from the guilt and penalty of our sin. And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only-begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth’ ‘(John 1:14).

God as God could not forgive us for our sins unless our sins were fully paid for; otherwise He would have been a condoner and protector of the violation of His own holy law. It was only as a man that God in Christ could furnish satisfaction sufficient to atone for the sins of mankind; for only a man, a true human being, could properly represent the human race.

But at the same time our Redeemer had to be God, for only God could furnish a sacrifice of infinite value, to compensate for the penalty of eternal hell that our sin demands, according to the righteous claims of divine justice. Only God could have devised a way of salvation that made it possible for Him to remain Just and at the same time become the Justifier of the ungodly and instead of sending them to the everlasting perdition they deserved it was the perfect Man who was also infinite God that furnished an effectual sacrifice for all believers of every age.

(Gleason Archer)
.