Cooper
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- Jan 31, 2020
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True Trinity.
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101G
Well-Known Member
GINOLJC, to all.
PICJAG
can you explain how, (the same person), is separate and distinct?.
PICJAG
101G
Well-Known Member
LOL, I'm not even in the slightest worried about that. but you cannot even explain whay you say and believe, it's you who need to worry about that...
you say the Father and the sone is the same person, but separate and distinct, well explain from bible how?
lets see if you really believe what you say.....
PICJAG.
I have done so before, and will do so again, below. I want to say that Father,Son, and Holy Ghost are not separate; although they are distinct.
Distinct; not separate.
101G
Well-Known Member
first thanks for the reply, second, HOG WASH, none of those scriptures shows "Distinction". see JBF I been watching your post carefully, and your understanding of the Godhead is only "FLESHLY" in nature. like the scripture you posted above, which shows no distinction. the best you came up with on any likeness is your 1+1=1. even that fails, because that's in bodies only, but not in spirits. understand your first 1 don't have the same spirit as 2 & 3. did you not read the flesh only reproduce flesh? see how un-scriptual that is following some man. God is a "Spirit".
now let it be shown unto you the real definition of the Godhead, not no 1+1=1, this is for edification.
God is a "Diversity" of himself. as I have said many of times, "Diversity" means "Offspring". supportive scripture, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."
here, the Lord Jesus just revealed himself. The Root is the "First", the "Beginning", the "Alpha", and the "Aleph". as the "EQUAL" of himself, in NATURAL "FLESH", according to Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" he is his own "ARM" in flesh as the "Offspring", as stated above in Revelation 22:16. meaning, he's the "Last, the "Omega", and the "Tav".MEANING HE HAVE A HEAVENLY NATURE, THAT "TOOK ON", OR "TOOK PART" IN HUMAN NATURE. understand the term "took part", and was not a "partaker" of human nature, (which in itself answer the virgin birth).
now, the billion dollar question, how is this one PERSON Jesus is Father, and Son? answer the English term "ANOTHER", but in the Greek for better understanding, G243 Allos. yes, another as in "ANOTHER" .... Comforter....
(you just missed a key revelation right there). now the the revelation, Another, or the Greek G243 Allos. and listen to the definition, Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort. BINGO, there is the distinction in numerical difference like 1+1=1 .. lol, NO, but in Spirit 1 only, "SHARED", not an Echad as in your 1+1=1, no, only 1 "Shared" .... numerically. the same one only shared in "ANOTHER" Nature. lets back this up with scripture,Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
Philippians 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:" (BINGO, John 1:14. what was "WITH" God in equallity made himself no reputation, G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō'))
Philippians 2:8 "And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."
see JBF in the definition of G243 Allos, which I'm using the Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, it shows God "distinction in Flesh, but no separation in Spirit, because the definition of G243 allos also states, "of the same SORT". (BINGO again, same sort? yes, for SORT means, using dictionary.com 1. a particular kind, species, variety, class, or group, distinguished by a common character or nature: 2. character, quality, or nature:
a particular kind, class, the bible is clear, there is only ONE GOD, now character, yes, it means "Son"... ,,G5207, huios ... see JBF, "Son" is only a title of the "Offspring", God himself "shared" in flesh ...
see what you state 1+1=1, or some say "ice" steam", "liquid", os something like that, no, that's flesh thinking. the Spirit is not flesh, and the Spirit is only 1.. "ONE", Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"
PICJAG.
No, 1 x 1 = 1.
I'll ask you what is the difference between "partake" and "take part". And also, how does this "answer" the virgin birth? is this a doctrine that you are in denial of?
I agree.
101G
Well-Known Member
First thanks for the reply. second, thanks for asking reasonable question.
You asked, because the dictionary couldn’t give you a good definition of both?… .. no problem but the bible will give it to you. See, this is why I keep say this must be revealed unto men. Natural education want give it to you.
First, “Partake” of the human “NATURE” or the flesh and blood,
Hebrews 2:14 "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;" simply, he took on flesh, let us explain.
This verse answer both in the same scripture. But we’re first going to looking at the FLESH NATURE. The Children … us, human have human Parents, So what is this verse is saying, the children, HUMANS, us was conceived by a male, and a female, sperm and egg. We, us, humans have human Parents, meaning FLESH reproduce FLESH, this is what “Partake” mean of HUMAN NATURE, meaning, to be conceived by flesh and blood. This is what we humans do. Scripture, John 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." we have Human parents, which we “Partake of, or was conceived by". (keep that in your head)
Well our Lord Jesus have no human Parents that he, (JESUS, the offspring), was not conceived from, neither a human father, nor mother, just like Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God. Hebrews 7:2 "To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;"
Hebrews 7:3 "Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually."
Other word he have no human parent that anyone to know of. So to “Partake” of a HUMAN NATURE, one need human parents. This is the Natural way. So since our Lord is without mother, and without father, who conceive the flesh body that he come in, then he only “Took Part” meaning without a father, nor mother, who is human to conceive the flesh body he came in. Lets see who conceived that flesh that Mary only carried as a surrogate Mother. Scripture, Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.", now, is the Holy Ghost human? NO, of course not, so there is no HUMAN involved in the conception of that flesh. So that's how I know that the Son was “Given” not conceived as it is clearly stated in Isaiah 9:6 who is the “Everlasting Father”. and that “Child”, ..the flesh was conceived by the Holy Ghost, no human sperm nor human egg, was used to produce the child/flesh that Mary … only “Birthed”, supportive scripture, John 1:14. and the word “generated” there is the term for pregnancy, 9 months.
So “Partake” in Human flesh Nature require human conceived parents.
Now, Partake of the “Divine”, or Spirit NATURE.
2 Peter 1:4 "now, “Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."
This is called “BORN” again, or from above, this is the "SEED" that is in us, (1 John 3:9), is incorruptible. supportive scripture, John 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." BINGO, right there in the bible. and that seed of God is his "Word"...
See JBF, to be a Partaker of God, you must be, concieved of his NATURE, (the Gospel the word of God), BORN AGAIN, which is the first step in the NEW CREATION, which will include a resurrected/CHANGED body
Conclusion, “Partake” of the HUMAN NATURE require human parents, that produce a human body, only.
“took part” of the HUMAN NATURE do not require a human parents, That produce a human body, only.
“Partake” of the DIVINE NATURE require GOD, as Father, who is a Spirit, that’s all. And the Natural body that was sown by a woman, which is changed, either quicken, if alive at his coming, or dead, resurrected. God give it a body,
1 Corinthians 15:37 "And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:"
1 Corinthians 15:38 "But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body."
Now you asked , “how does this "answer" the virgin birth?” well the bible answer it for us. Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing, (thing, here means flesh), which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God".
note the word overshadow, it's the Greek word G1982 ἐπισκιάζω episkiazo (ep-ee-skee-ad'-zo) v.
1. to cast a shade upon
2. (by analogy) to envelop in a haze of brilliancy
3. (figuratively) to invest with preternatural influence
take note of the 3rd. reference. "to invest with preternatural influence", what do preternatural means. It means, "out of the ordinary course of nature; exceptional or abnormal". the meaning here, not in the natural way of conception between a man and a women. BINGO, no sperm nor egg was used, Mary was only a surrogate mother “BIRTH mother who only “carried”/generated that flesh for 9 months.
So the Difference between Partake vs Took Part of the HUMAN Nature, is parents, (partake), without Parents (took part).
You want find that in a dictionary….
PICJAG.
Listen and understand, it's Partake vs Took Part, and not "take part"
You asked, because the dictionary couldn’t give you a good definition of both?…
.. no problem but the bible will give it to you. See, this is why I keep say this must be revealed unto men. Natural education want give it to you. First, “Partake” of the human “NATURE” or the flesh and blood,
Hebrews 2:14 "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;" simply, he took on flesh, let us explain.
This verse answer both in the same scripture. But we’re first going to looking at the FLESH NATURE. The Children … us, human have human Parents, So what is this verse is saying, the children, HUMANS, us was conceived by a male, and a female, sperm and egg. We, us, humans have human Parents, meaning FLESH reproduce FLESH, this is what “Partake” mean of HUMAN NATURE, meaning, to be conceived by flesh and blood. This is what we humans do. Scripture, John 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." we have Human parents, which we “Partake of, or was conceived by". (keep that in your head)
Well our Lord Jesus have no human Parents that he, (JESUS, the offspring), was not conceived from, neither a human father, nor mother, just like Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God. Hebrews 7:2 "To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;"
Hebrews 7:3 "Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually."
Other word he have no human parent that anyone to know of. So to “Partake” of a HUMAN NATURE, one need human parents. This is the Natural way. So since our Lord is without mother, and without father, who conceive the flesh body that he come in, then he only “Took Part” meaning without a father, nor mother, who is human to conceive the flesh body he came in. Lets see who conceived that flesh that Mary only carried as a surrogate Mother. Scripture, Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.", now, is the Holy Ghost human? NO, of course not, so there is no HUMAN involved in the conception of that flesh. So that's how I know that the Son was “Given” not conceived as it is clearly stated in Isaiah 9:6 who is the “Everlasting Father”. and that “Child”, ..the flesh was conceived by the Holy Ghost, no human sperm nor human egg, was used to produce the child/flesh that Mary … only “Birthed”, supportive scripture, John 1:14. and the word “generated” there is the term for pregnancy, 9 months.
So “Partake” in Human flesh Nature require human conceived parents.
Now, Partake of the “Divine”, or Spirit NATURE.
2 Peter 1:4 "now, “Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."
This is called “BORN” again, or from above, this is the "SEED" that is in us, (1 John 3:9), is incorruptible. supportive scripture, John 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." BINGO, right there in the bible. and that seed of God is his "Word"...
See JBF, to be a Partaker of God, you must be, concieved of his NATURE, (the Gospel the word of God), BORN AGAIN, which is the first step in the NEW CREATION, which will include a resurrected/CHANGED body
Conclusion, “Partake” of the HUMAN NATURE require human parents, that produce a human body, only.
“took part” of the HUMAN NATURE do not require a human parents, That produce a human body, only.
“Partake” of the DIVINE NATURE require GOD, as Father, who is a Spirit, that’s all. And the Natural body that was sown by a woman, which is changed, either quicken, if alive at his coming, or dead, resurrected. God give it a body,
1 Corinthians 15:37 "And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:"
1 Corinthians 15:38 "But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body."
Now you asked , “how does this "answer" the virgin birth?” well the bible answer it for us. Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing, (thing, here means flesh), which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God".
note the word overshadow, it's the Greek word G1982 ἐπισκιάζω episkiazo (ep-ee-skee-ad'-zo) v.
1. to cast a shade upon
2. (by analogy) to envelop in a haze of brilliancy
3. (figuratively) to invest with preternatural influence
take note of the 3rd. reference. "to invest with preternatural influence", what do preternatural means. It means, "out of the ordinary course of nature; exceptional or abnormal". the meaning here, not in the natural way of conception between a man and a women. BINGO, no sperm nor egg was used, Mary was only a surrogate mother “BIRTH mother who only “carried”/generated that flesh for 9 months.
So the Difference between Partake vs Took Part of the HUMAN Nature, is parents, (partake), without Parents (took part).
You want find that in a dictionary….
PICJAG.
Jesus did indeed have a human mother; while His Father was indeed the Lord God:
Mat 1:18, Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
You just contradicted the scripture that you had just quoted.
There was indeed the egg of the virgin that was used; and also the "seed of the woman" (Genesis 3:15); not "the seed of the man". But that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Gen 3:15, And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
If your theology is based on concepts that are directly contradicted by scripture, then you need to re-examine your theology so that it fits the testimony of scripture.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
This is an extensive subject and certainly not as simple as you make it. Then you're admitting you're a modalist?
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
You have to be careful. It is true that all 3 Persons of the Trinity somehow represent the one Divine Spirit of God. But the Holy Spirit acts Himself as a distinct Person, and thus, we cannot confuse either the Father or the Son with the Spirit.
In other words, it's one thing to say God is spirit, and another thing to talk about the Holy Spirit. That is the problem with modalism--it refuses to make any distinction in this matter.
I distinguish the Persons of the Trinity, first of all, because the Scriptures distinguish them as distinct Persons. They are not each other--rather, they relate with one another.
Secondly, I distinguish the Holy Spirit from the spirit-hood of God by showing that the separate Personality of the Holy Spirit is distinguished by His appearance in distinct locations in space, in acts within space and time, as opposed to the Father who operates through the agency of either the Holy Spirit or the Son. The Father is thus distinct from the other two Persons by His use of finite agencies, remaining Himself beyond the scope of all description except His identity as a Person.
Both the Spirit and the Son themselves operate within time and space. The Father only operates in time and space through the agency of the other two Persons. That may or may not be flawed. But it's how I personally describe it.
101G
Well-Known Member
GINOLJC, to All,
First thanks for the reply, JBF, there are many mothers out in the world who never gave birth to a child, or conceived a child and is a Mother. I'm surprise you didn't know that, nor this, MARY was not the Lord Jesus "BIOLOGICAL" mother. shet is only the surrogate mother, who birthed the flesh that he came in. she's only a "BIRTH" mother. get that fleshly notion out of your head. you do know what that means correct? I hope so.
101G said: ↑
Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.", now, is the Holy Ghost human? NO, of course not, so there is no HUMAN involved in the conception of that flesh. So that's how I know that the Son was “Given” not conceived
You said, "You just contradicted the scripture that you had just quoted".
ERROR, the Son was given according to Isaiah 9:6, the flesh that was in Mary's womb was "conceived" by the Holy Ghost. so... what's contradictory?
at least point out something.
do you know what "SEED" mean here? it's the Hebrew word, H2233 זֶרַע zera` (zeh'-rah) n-m.
1. seed.
2. (figuratively) fruit, plant, sowing-time, posterity.
[from H2232]
KJV: X carnally, child, fruitful, seed(-time), sowing- time.
Root(s): H2232
JBF, do you know what posterity means? if not look it up... these things you should have known....... oh well.
Romans 8:6 "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace."
Romans 8:7 "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."
Romans 8:8 "So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."
Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
see JBF, there's your, "enmity", "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed". now JBF, what is the serpent "SEED?"....... ..... see how you think, always flesh.. oh well.
my theology is based on the spirit "shared" in flesh. Remember JBF, Romans 8:8 "So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."
I suggest you go back and re-read what I been saying... no put down, but for your edification.
PICJAG.
First thanks for the reply, JBF, there are many mothers out in the world who never gave birth to a child, or conceived a child and is a Mother. I'm surprise you didn't know that, nor this, MARY was not the Lord Jesus "BIOLOGICAL" mother. shet is only the surrogate mother, who birthed the flesh that he came in. she's only a "BIRTH" mother. get that fleshly notion out of your head. you do know what that means correct? I hope so.
101G said: ↑
Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.", now, is the Holy Ghost human? NO, of course not, so there is no HUMAN involved in the conception of that flesh. So that's how I know that the Son was “Given” not conceived
You said, "You just contradicted the scripture that you had just quoted".
ERROR, the Son was given according to Isaiah 9:6, the flesh that was in Mary's womb was "conceived" by the Holy Ghost. so... what's contradictory?
at least point out something.
so you got two "seed" bumping heads?. lol, lol, lol. my, my, my. lets get educated, Genesis 3:15 "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."
do you know what "SEED" mean here? it's the Hebrew word, H2233 זֶרַע zera` (zeh'-rah) n-m.
1. seed.
2. (figuratively) fruit, plant, sowing-time, posterity.
[from H2232]
KJV: X carnally, child, fruitful, seed(-time), sowing- time.
Root(s): H2232
JBF, do you know what posterity means? if not look it up... these things you should have known....... oh well.
MY theology?...lol. since you gave me a theology, ok, it's based on the Spirit insted of the flesh only.. understand, Romans 8:5 "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit."
Romans 8:6 "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace."
Romans 8:7 "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."
Romans 8:8 "So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."
Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
see JBF, there's your, "enmity", "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed". now JBF, what is the serpent "SEED?".......
..... see how you think, always flesh.. oh well.my theology is based on the spirit "shared" in flesh. Remember JBF, Romans 8:8 "So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."
I suggest you go back and re-read what I been saying... no put down, but for your edification.
PICJAG.
101G
Well-Known Member
not trying to get into your conversation, but you made an interesting statement.
How is that so, meaning that the Holy Spirit acts a distinct person?.
PICJAG.
I actually agree that the Spirit acts as a distinct Person (John 15:26); while at the same time there is only one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4); which is the Father (John 4:23-24), the Son (Colossians 1:27, 1 John 5:12) and the Holy Ghost (John 7:39, 2 Timothy 1:14).
I do agree that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are distinct from each other. I think that, if you are willing, you ought to look at everything I have said on the subject in this thread; for I have addressed the distinctiveness of the members of the Godhead in a few posts. See if you agree or disagree with what I have set forth.
Nowhere in scripture does it say that Mary is Jesus' *surrogate* mother.
Yes, it means *seed*.
But all facetiousness aside, even if it means posterity, it would then be referring to the woman as possibly being Eve; and the Messiah being her *descendant* (that is what posterity means). I would ask you, How is Jesus the descendant of Eve, if Mary was only the *surrogate* mother of Jesus?
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
I'm late on this train. I'm not going to research all of your statements to figure out what you "mean." ;) No, I'm just dealing with your language here, and questioning whether you're espousing modalism or not. It sounds like you're not. I've been where you are in about 1977-78. I got into a discussion with someone at Christian Research Institute, and I was arguing the same thing you are now! ;)
In principle I agree with you. But now that I'm older and wiser, I realize how important language is, in view of how technical formulas influence how people interpret what you say. If you say the Father and the Son are the Spirit, you will be undoing the Trinitarian formula in the minds of many. And the Trinitarian formula has worked very well for 1500 years! :)
My goal is to find common ground with Oneness Pentecostals whom I have a heart for and to use language in explaining the Trinity that will be acceptable to them concerning specific verses that they have been taught concerning the Oneness of our God. I also seek to deal with the heresy of Tritheism which is on the other end of the spectrum.
101G
Well-Known Member
JBF, do you actually red a post before responding?, I guess not. I answered that very question in POST #447 above, Listen to my reply.
do you know what, "out of the ordinary course of nature" means? no egg, or sperm was used to conceive the flesh Mary bore. How do we know this? "out of the ordinary course of nature" means it not NATURAL. egge and sperm is natural. scripture, Hebrews 10:5 "Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:" God prepared that body that the Lord came in, and how do we know that Mary is only a surrogate mother, scripture, John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
MADE: G1096 γίνομαι ginomai (ǰiy'-no-mai) v.
1. to cause to be (“gen”-erate).
2. (reflexively) to become (come into being).
3. (of events) to happen.
{used with great latitude (literal, figurative, intensive, etc.):}
[a prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb]
KJV: arise, be assembled, be(-come, -fall, -have self), be brought (to pass), (be) come (to pass), continue, be divided, draw, be ended, fall, be finished, follow, be found, be fulfilled, + God forbid, grow, happen, have, be kept, be made, be married, be ordained to be, partake, pass, be performed, be published, require, seem, be showed, X soon as it was, sound, be taken, be turned, use, wax, will, would, be wrought
grow means to to be carried for 9 months, or as definition #1 states "to be generate". so clearly John 1:14 clearly states that Mary is only a surrogate mother, point blank. God clearly prepared the body, Mary only carried the flesh for 9 months.
JBF, you need to read a post completly, and study more, before making off the wall statement.
PICJAG.
It's alright, there's no pressure on you to go back and see everything that has been posted in this thread on the subject.
It is also out of the ordinary course of nature for a human to be born from an egg only with no sperm coming from a male.
101G
Well-Known Member
LOL, LOL, LOL, question where is the sperm, or the egg, that produce Adam? or the seed, that produce all the animals, and ... plants? see how ignorant you answer was.
JBF you're not look for any common ground, but lost in delusion of false doctrine. no put down just observation.
PICJAG.
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