True Trinity.

[justbyfaith]

It was imperfect men who decided to replace YHWH with the words Lord and God.

Is not the Father of Jesus YHWH?

In Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, the Father of Jesus is said to be the Lord of heaven and earth.

Therefore translating YHWH as "Lord" is not an inaccurate substitution.

That wasn't an inspiration of God, that's just what imperfect men decided,

Nevertheless the scripture substantiates the fact that the Father, YHWH, is the Lord of heaven and earth; and that therefore substituting "Lord" for YHWH is not an inaccurate translation.

 

[bbyrd009]

Thus says the Lord, “Israel is My son, My firstborn.

well according to you, this is no longer in the Bible right

I will be a father to him and he will be a son to Me

and i could easily Quote 100 more?

Is not the Father of Jesus YHWH?

In Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, the Father of Jesus is said to be the Lord of heaven and earth.

Therefore translating YHWH as "Lord" is not an inaccurate substitution.



Nevertheless the scripture substantiates the fact that the Father, YHWH, is the Lord of heaven and earth; and that therefore substituting "Lord" for YHWH is not an inaccurate translation.

he does have a point here, yes, it is an inaccurate and even antichrist interpretation, taking the Name of Yah (in vain) and turning Him into one of our pus-filled English "lords"
"get behind me, satan"

 

[bbyrd009]

On the contrary, in John 14:7-11 He told Philip, Hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father...going on to mention that He is in the Father and the Father in Him. Therefore the very Spirit of Jesus is the Father, since the Father is also a Spirit according to John 4:23-24.

Also, in John 10:30, Jesus said, I and the Father are one; and the scribes and Pharisees did not take Him for saying that they were one in purpose...see John 10:30-33.

yes, but the scribes and pharisees in q were obv idiots? and wadr it is pointless to pretend to have a convo with you as long as you are so convinced you know everything, ok? It's like talking to a bot?
He who says he knows, does not?

"Spirit of Jesus?" you guys hate even saying "Christ" or something?

no offense but its pretty obvious you want to make Jesus into Yah to justify your beliefs, and to disenfranchise anyone who does not agree with you, like Christians are world-famous for

ah, seems much more likely that they misunderstood, as is so often forwarded in other Scripture?

No...

ah, i'm speaking with another self-professed Oracle?

 

[Cooper]

Isaiah 9:6-Eternal Father
When Jesus was on earth as a man he had the power to have a family of his own by natural human means. He did not bring forth that family, but gave up that potential in his sacrifice. As he said: “The Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his soul a ransom in exchange for many.” (Matthew 20:28) Jesus therefore became the “last Adam.” The first Adam brought forth a family, an imperfect one, with bad traits. Jesus Christ the last Adam brings forth a family that attains to righteousness. Individuals can transfer from the family of the first Adam and be regenerated through the righteousness of Jesus Christ the last Adam, and, by putting on the new personality, can come to be ‘in his image.’ They can be cleaned up as sons of the “last Adam.”—1 Corinthians 15:45, 49.
The Bible calls Jesus “the last Adam,” “a life-giving spirit.” (1 Corinthians 15:45) He is properly called the “Eternal Father” of the future perfect human race.

Only 10,000 characters allowed hence the deletion.

You say Jesus was a "spirit creature" before He came to earth. Have you forgotten God is Spirit?
.

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, to all.
First thanks for the reply,

and so Jesus speaking spiritually is heard by the wise in their own eyes literally, and when Jesus speaks literally--on this exact subject--it is just ignored, i guess?

no need to guess... (smile), "KNOW", as the apostle Paul said, "I have you not Ignorant", so lets stop being Ignorant and be wise in his, JESUS, eyes. when the Lord Jesus speak all mankind can hear who, but it's ears to hear. if one is BORN AGAIN, then the wisdom of GOD/JESUS gives one the ability to UNDERSTAND. it's just that simple, as said no need to guess.

Jesus never said anywhere that He was YHWH, and actually took every opportunity to differentiate Himself, even commanding us to worship Yah only, in vv i wont bother to post for i guess obv reasons. I mean dont get me wrong, you are welcome to your pantheon, but after all you are "god" too right

well what do you know, a glimmer of hope. Have I not being saying that the Lord Jesus is the G243 allos of himself in flesh, which G234 allos or the English word "ANOTHER" means, listen to the definition, and I'm using the Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort;" heteros on the other hand expresses a qualitative difference and denotes "another of a different sort."

now bbyrd009, let see if you can understand, (BY WISDOM, please not yours, but the Lord Jesus WISDOM... (smile)), what the Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words just said about your differentiation, which I been saying all along. now read the definition and see if it don't answer just what you said.

we will see if you can hear and see, both literally, and Spiritually.

take note: the answer is right in front of your face.......

PICJAG.

I can't wait to see if the true answer come forth.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Only 10,000 characters allowed hence the deletion.

You say Jesus was a "spirit creature" before He came to earth. Have you forgotten God is Spirit?
.

I mean duh, like I didn't know God is a spirit. You and I just believe differently concerning God Only Begotten Son.
In the apostle John’s writings, the term "Only Begotten Son," is used exclusively of Jesus (Joh 3:16, 18; 1Jo 4:9) but never about Jesus’ human birth or existence as a man. Instead, John uses the term to describe Jesus in his prehuman existence as the Logos, or the Word, the one who “was in the beginning with God,” even “before the world was.” (Joh 1:1, 2; 17:5, 24) Jesus is the “only-begotten son” because he was Jehovah’s Firstborn and the only one created directly by God. While other spirit creatures are likewise called “sons of the true God” or “sons of God” (Ge 6:2, 4; Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:4-7), all those sons were created by Jehovah through that firstborn Son (Col 1:15, 16). In summary, the term mo·no·ge·nesʹ refers both to Jesus’ being “one of a kind; unique; incomparable” and to his being the only son produced directly and solely by God.—1Jo 5:18; see study note on Heb 11:17

 

[101G]

God the Father rules and reigns throughout the Universe and will do so in His experience until He has ruled over everything that needs ruling over so that the proper outcome might be fulfilled. He is an eternal Spirit and lived one eternal moment (or will, depending on your perspective) and then becomes His Son;

thanks for your reply, now listen and lets put an end to this Father and Son thing. listen real good,

1 Timothy 6:14 "That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:"
1 Timothy 6:15 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;"
1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

these verses is speaking if the LORD JESUS.

JBF, lets not go off on the deep end ok, just google the word "ONLY" and see what it means. once you did that, ask yourself, if JESUS, the Son is the "ONLY" one with "ETERNAL LIFE", where do that leave the one who you calls Father? and if the Father have "ETERNAL LIFE", then that means the Father and Son is the same ONE PERSON. or else the bible is lying, God forbid, man lie not God. so again take your choice.

PICJAG.

 

[Cooper]

I mean duh, like I didn't know God is a spirit. You and I just believe differently concerning God Only Begotten Son.
In the apostle John’s writings, the term "Only Begotten Son," is used exclusively of Jesus (Joh 3:16, 18; 1Jo 4:9) but never about Jesus’ human birth or existence as a man. Instead, John uses the term to describe Jesus in his prehuman existence as the Logos, or the Word, the one who “was in the beginning with God,” even “before the world was.” (Joh 1:1, 2; 17:5, 24) Jesus is the “only-begotten son” because he was Jehovah’s Firstborn and the only one created directly by God. While other spirit creatures are likewise called “sons of the true God” or “sons of God” (Ge 6:2, 4; Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:4-7), all those sons were created by Jehovah through that firstborn Son (Col 1:15, 16). In summary, the term mo·no·ge·nesʹ refers both to Jesus’ being “one of a kind; unique; incomparable” and to his being the only son produced directly and solely by God.—1Jo 5:18; see study note on Heb 11:17

So you admit the pre-existence of Jesus, the WORD by whom the heaven and the earth was created, and you also admit the manhood of Jesus on earth.

Sounds to me like you know Jesus is God on earth in the form of man, but you will not admit it.
.

 

[101G]

I understand that people are going to say that when Jesus said to Mary, "I go to my Father and your Father and my God and your God," that they will be saying Jesus wasn't being clear or accurate. That's their choice. What is written down is clear and accurate. You don't need to listen to anyone's interpretation of that Scripture because what is written down is clear and accurate. It's not a lie.

lets explain and expose this lie about the "MY" Father. yes the word is clear and accurate. lets see it clearly. going to "MY" Father is TRUE and is i9t UNDERSTOOD CORRECTLY?.
I have said it, many, and I mean many of time that when the "Lord" Jesus say "MY" Father, he is saying "MY" Spirit which is in heaven, just as when the "LORD" Jesus who is in heaven at the very same time say "MY" Son on earth, he is saying, "MY" BODY on Earth. just as it is when he said in Revelation 3:12 he said "I" will write "MY" , "MY, "MY, Name on them. now can we back this up, the Lord Jesus being in Spatial and in Spirit. YES, and lets do it in scripture, listen,
John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

did you get that BARNEY? while our Lord Jesus was on EARTH in a "BODY", Spatial, while he was talking to Nicodemus, he, the Lord Jesus, at the SAME TIME in Heaven as "Spirit, as JBF said the ETERNAL SPIRIT... uphold the universe. (boy this is to easy).

see BARNEY, or should I say it Spiritually, UNDERSTAND, for those who cannot tell the difference when our Lord speak literally, or Spiritually.
The Lord Jesus was nin Heaven at the very SAME TIME on Earth talking to Nicodemus. (I hope I didn't give away the answer bbyrd009 needed).

PICJAG.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

So you admit the pre-existence of Jesus, the WORD by whom the heaven and the earth was created, and you also admit the manhood of Jesus on earth.

Sounds to me like you know Jesus is God on earth in the form of man, but you will not admit it.
.

Then you're not listening. Although I do agree that The Only Begotten Son pre-existed in heaven before he became human and I agree that The Only Begotten Son is the Word through whom(not by whom)the Heaven and Earth was created by his Father and God Jehovah. To the point, Jehovah God created Heaven and Earth through his Only Begotten Son. I believe the "Only Begotten Son," is "The Word." I don't believe "God" is "The Word." When the scriptures say The Word became Flesh, and since I believe "The Word" is "The Only Begotten Son," then I believe it was "The Only Begotten Son who became human. I don't believe it was "God" who became human. Does this make it clear what I believe?

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

lets explain and expose this lie about the "MY" Father. yes the word is clear and accurate. lets see it clearly. going to "MY" Father is TRUE and is i9t UNDERSTOOD CORRECTLY?.
I have said it, many, and I mean many of time that when the "Lord" Jesus say "MY" Father, he is saying "MY" Spirit which is in heaven, just as when the "LORD" Jesus who is in heaven at the very same time say "MY" Son on earth, he is saying, "MY" BODY on Earth. just as it is when he said in Revelation 3:12 he said "I" will write "MY" , "MY, "MY, Name on them. now can we back this up, the Lord Jesus being in Spatial and in Spirit. YES, and lets do it in scripture, listen,
John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

did you get that BARNEY? while our Lord Jesus was on EARTH in a "BODY", Spatial, while he was talking to Nicodemus, he, the Lord Jesus, at the SAME TIME in Heaven as "Spirit, as JBF said the ETERNAL SPIRIT... uphold the universe. (boy this is to easy).

see BARNEY, or should I say it Spiritually, UNDERSTAND, for those who cannot tell the difference when our Lord speak literally, or Spiritually.
The Lord Jesus was nin Heaven at the very SAME TIME on Earth talking to Nicodemus. (I hope I didn't give away the answer bbyrd009 needed).

PICJAG.

All this is just your interpretation, and like always you have been consistently in trying to teach people that what's written down isn't accurate but people need your interpretations. Don't get me wrong, you're entitled to your interpretations, I just don't agree with them.

 

[101G]

All this is just your interpretation, and like always you have been consistently in trying to teach people that what's written down isn't accurate but people need your interpretations. Don't get me wrong, you're entitled to your interpretations, I just don't agree with them.

first thanks for your reply, secondly, NOPE it's all bible, and I have no interpretation, have you not read? 2 Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." ..... LOL, your belief been shot down by the scriptures. well as the Holy Ghost, the JESUS, said through his apostle, "I have you not IGNORANT". understand BARNEY, "Diversity", is bibical and not of my or yours or anyone's private interpretation. and in this "diversity" he is the "ANOTHER" G243 of himself in flesh... lets get educated, by arresting your Ignorance with KNOWLEDGE of the Word of God.

Scripture #1. Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." JESUS is the ROOT and the "OFFSPRING"
what do "OFFSPRING" means? it's the Greek word, G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
kin.
{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
[from G1096]
KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock
Root(s): G1096

well what do you know, "Offspring" means "diversity" get out of here.... (smile).. lol, lol. now, lets break this down. as the "offspring" of God he's the G243 allos of himself in the form of a man, having a ... "BODY" (John 1:14). which allows God to talk to Nicodemus in that "Body", while still in heaven upholding the universe. understand, the Lord Jesus is a literal walking talking word of GOD. as the definition above states, "CONCRETE". and by being the G234 allos of his "OWN"self as Isaiah 63:5 states, he's a numerical difference which denotes another of the same sort, as the definition above states ANOTHER? yes, like in ANOTHER COMFORTER, John 14:16-18.... (smile). oh this is so easy.

This is how Jesus can be on earth in a "Body" and at the same time in heaven...... .. say what... yes, "Diversity" answer all the Father and Son question ..... every time. and BARNEY, notice "Diversity" is in the Bible, known as "OFFSPRING".....

the scriptures are correct, Hosea 4:6a "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge".

boy that devil has destroyed many minds. because many ... "REJECT" instead of "REPENT". .... :cool:

with "diversified oneness", I'll eat anyone's lunch, breakfast, and dinner too. you cannot defend aganist "diversified oneness" ...

PICJAG.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

first thanks for your reply, secondly, NOPE it's all bible, and I have no interpretation, have you not read? 2 Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." ..... LOL, your belief been shot down by the scriptures. well as the Holy Ghost, the JESUS, said through his apostle, "I have you not IGNORANT". understand BARNEY, "Diversity", is bibical and not of my or yours or anyone's private interpretation. and in this "diversity" he is the "ANOTHER" G243 of himself in flesh... lets get educated, by arresting your Ignorance with KNOWLEDGE of the Word of God.

Scripture #1. Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." JESUS is the ROOT and the "OFFSPRING"
what do "OFFSPRING" means? it's the Greek word, G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
kin.
{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
[from G1096]
KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock
Root(s): G1096

well what do you know, "Offspring" means "diversity" get out of here.... (smile).. lol, lol. now, lets break this down. as the "offspring" of God he's the G243 allos of himself in the form of a man, having a ... "BODY" (John 1:14). which allows God to talk to Nicodemus in that "Body", while still in heaven upholding the universe. understand, the Lord Jesus is a literal walking talking word of GOD. as the definition above states, "CONCRETE". and by being the G234 allos of his "OWN"self as Isaiah 63:5 states, he's a numerical difference which denotes another of the same sort, as the definition above states ANOTHER? yes, like in ANOTHER COMFORTER, John 14:16-18.... (smile). oh this is so easy.

This is how Jesus can be on earth in a "Body" and at the same time in heaven...... .. say what... yes, "Diversity" answer all the Father and Son question ..... every time. and BARNEY, notice "Diversity" is in the Bible, known as "OFFSPRING".....

the scriptures are correct, Hosea 4:6a "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge".

boy that devil has destroyed many minds. because many ... "REJECT" instead of "REPENT". .... :cool:

with "diversified oneness", I'll eat anyone's lunch, breakfast, and dinner too. you cannot defend aganist "diversified oneness" ...

PICJAG.

I understand what you believe, but I can see for myself what's literally written down and what people are interpreting what's literally written down. You are interpreting what's literally written down. Now like I said, you have a right to your interpretations, but that doesn't mean I'm going to agree with them. Also I don't expect you to believe what I'm saying or what I believe, continue to believe what you believe, that's what I'm going to do.

 

[Cooper]

Then you're not listening. Although I do agree that The Only Begotten Son pre-existed in heaven before he became human and I agree that The Only Begotten Son is the Word through whom(not by whom)the Heaven and Earth was created by his Father and God Jehovah. To the point, Jehovah God created Heaven and Earth through his Only Begotten Son. I believe the "Only Begotten Son," is "The Word." I don't believe "God" is "The Word." When the scriptures say The Word became Flesh, and since I believe "The Word" is "The Only Begotten Son," then I believe it was "The Only Begotten Son who became human. I don't believe it was "God" who became human. Does this make it clear what I believe?

There is only One God who is Spirit and Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit Matthew 1:20. As a result "Jesus is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: (16) For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: (17) And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." Colossians 1:15-17

That Jesus is both Man AND God is clearly seen by his actions. When Jesus forgave people their sin, which only God can do, and then healed them, he was saying louder than any words can do, "I AM God."
.

 

[101G]

I understand what you believe, but I can see for myself what's literally written down and what people are interpreting what's literally written down.

first thanks for the reply, second, don't let your eyes fool you. for we walk by "FAITH", and not by sight. yes, I give scripture with what I say, which is and cannot be a private interpretation. andif you cannot see that this I'm sorry for you. if , if, if, as you said is my private interpretation, why then it is fitting the bible hand in glove?

now, if what you say lines up with what the bible is saying I have no problem with that as long as you can "UNDERSTAND", what the bible is saying. look, reading the bible and not "UNDERSTANDING" what you read is doing you no good. listen again, Isaiah 28:9 "Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts."
Isaiah 28:10 "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:"

see BARNEY, no man, you nor I can interprete the bible, it must be "REVEALED" to you. one cannot just read the bible and KNOW it... NO, that's foolish thinking. one must be taught by God himself. as the apostle Paul didn't get his understand from any man, but from God himself, and that was by "REVELATION", Galatians 1:11 "But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man."
Galatians 1:12 "For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ."

see BARNEY, what you and I must preach is NOT AFTER MEN, but of God.

so you cannot beat that dead horese with me about interpretation, because there is no private interpretation of the scriptures, they must be "REVEALED" unto you.

now if I have said anything that is outside of the scriptures please give me the POST #.

PICJAG

 

[justbyfaith]

the term "Only Begotten Son," is used exclusively of Jesus (Joh 3:16, 18; 1Jo 4:9) but never about Jesus’ human birth or existence as a man.

In Luke 1:35 you will find the missing scripture.

Jesus is the “only-begotten son” because he was Jehovah’s Firstborn and the only one created directly by God.

I agree that Jesus was created (in His humanity), Romans 1:3 (kjv). He later ascended to fill all things; to exist outside of time (Ephesians 4:10).

Consider please that Jehovah has a Maker, Isaiah 45:11.

Is not Jesus then Jehovah God?

Think about it.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

first thanks for the reply, second, don't let your eyes fool you. for we walk by "FAITH", and not by sight. yes, I give scripture with what I say, which is and cannot be a private interpretation. andif you cannot see that this I'm sorry for you. if , if, if, as you said is my private interpretation, why then it is fitting the bible hand in glove?

now, if what you say lines up with what the bible is saying I have no problem with that as long as you can "UNDERSTAND", what the bible is saying. look, reading the bible and not "UNDERSTANDING" what you read is doing you no good. listen again, Isaiah 28:9 "Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts."
Isaiah 28:10 "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:"

see BARNEY, no man, you nor I can interprete the bible, it must be "REVEALED" to you. one cannot just read the bible and KNOW it... NO, that's foolish thinking. one must be taught by God himself. as the apostle Paul didn't get his understand from any man, but from God himself, and that was by "REVELATION", Galatians 1:11 "But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man."
Galatians 1:12 "For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ."

see BARNEY, what you and I must preach is NOT AFTER MEN, but of God.

so you cannot beat that dead horese with me about interpretation, because there is no private interpretation of the scriptures, they must be "REVEALED" unto you.

now if I have said anything that is outside of the scriptures please give me the POST #.

PICJAG

We preach what's written down in God word not our interpretations. I honestly believe you to be preaching your interpretations.

 

[justbyfaith]

JBF, lets not go off on the deep end ok, just google the word "ONLY" and see what it means. once you did that, ask yourself, if JESUS, the Son is the "ONLY" one with "ETERNAL LIFE", where do that leave the one who you calls Father? and if the Father have "ETERNAL LIFE", then that means the Father and Son is the same ONE PERSON. or else the bible is lying, God forbid, man lie not God. so again take your choice.

I already believe that they are the same Person; you don't have to convince me of that.

Because I believe that He who inhabiteth eternity and He who dwells in flesh is the same Spirit; only in different habitations.

As such, the Spirit who dwells in flesh can pray to the same Spirit who dwells in eternity as though He were distinct from Himself.

Did not Jesus pray to the Father? This would indicate that to a certain extent the Father (who inabiteth eternity) is independent of the Son (who dwells in human flesh).

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

In Luke 1:35 you will find the missing scripture.



I agree that Jesus was created (in His humanity), Romans 1:3 (kjv). He later ascended to fill all things; to exist outside of time (Ephesians 4:10).

Consider please that Jehovah has a Maker, Isaiah 45:11.

Is not Jesus then Jehovah God?

Think about it.

This right here is what I mean. You honestly don't believe that God has a Only Begotten Son who he sent to us but you think God sent himself so you deny it was the Only Begotten Son who is the Word who became human. This is what you show me and I honestly believe you to be wrong.

 

[justbyfaith]

@BARNEY BRIGHT,

See Hebrews 10:5.

This scripture declares to us what it means that God sent His only begotten Son.

For what does it mean that He is the Son but that He is come in human flesh?

I believe that 1 John 4:1-3 and 1 John 4:15 are actually proclaiming the same thing.