Fear God or Presume acceptance

[Eternally Grateful]

How are you ever able to enter His rest when you believe it's on you to perform the obedience by which God will justify you?

What I cannot understand is this "dumbing down" of God's holiness as if our mixture of good and bad would be accepted. As if I do more good works than bad, then I'll be OK?

Nothing less than God's righteousness will do. We need to be like Paul, imitate him, and eschew "our own righteousness".

We do righteousness because we've been made righteous, not to become righteous.

Much love!

is this not what the pharisee did, they claimed to have obeyed the law from birth, and Jesus always said ok do this, if they would have listened they would have heard he called them out as not being truthful. He tried to show them they were guilty of the law

they could not see it

same attitude..

 

[CharismaticLady]

How are you ever able to enter His rest when you believe it's on you to perform the obedience by which God will justify you?

What I cannot understand is this "dumbing down" of God's holiness as if our mixture of good and bad would be accepted. As if I do more good works than bad, then I'll be OK?

Nothing less than God's righteousness will do. We need to be like Paul, imitate him, and eschew "our own righteousness".

We do righteousness because we've been made righteous, not to become righteous.

Much love!

You seem to agree with EG. Are you sure you understand what he's saying?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You seem to agree with EG. Are you sure you understand what he's saying?

I think he has showed you believe as I said you believed also.

can only pray you see this

 

[stunnedbygrace]

What do you base this on? What does that mean to you, "God manifest through you"?

God be seen (manifested) through you. As when the apostle said: why do you gaze earnestly at us as though our righteousness and holiness wrought this miracle? As when Gods holiness is seen through a man and 2 people drop dead away.

There is a difference between the righteousness that is by faith, and the holiness of God. One is training and the other cant be taught to a man.

 

[marks]

God be seen (manifested) through you. As when the apostle said: why do you gaze earnestly at us as though our righteousness and holiness wrought this miracle? As when Gods holiness is seen through a man and 2 people drop dead away.

There is a difference between the righteousness that is by faith, and the holiness of God. One is training and the other cant be taught to a man.

Definitely people can get confused over what they think they are seeing.

With Ananias and Sapphira, I'm curious why you are thinking this was something that involved Peter that they died. The fact that he was there at the time wouldn't be real evidence that Peter was actually involved in their deaths. We're only told that they died. Anything else would be assumed, would it not?

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

There is a difference between the righteousness that is by faith, and the holiness of God. One is training and the other cant be taught to a man.

Training? In what way? I'm not sure I know what you're saying. Explain what you mean by "righteousness that is by faith." Do you mean imputed righteousness like a covering over us, but that we are not actually righteous underneath? I'm not trying to put words in your mouth; just I've heard others who mean that.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Definitely people can get confused over what they think they are seeing.

With Ananias and Sapphira, I'm curious why you are thinking this was something that involved Peter that they died. The fact that he was there at the time wouldn't be real evidence that Peter was actually involved in their deaths. We're only told that they died. Anything else would be assumed, would it not?

Much love!

Right, they were killed by God. Peter just received words of knowledge from God of what was about to happen.

 

[marks]

There is a difference between the righteousness that is by faith, and the holiness of God. One is training and the other cant be taught to a man.

Agreed! No . . . wait . . . the righteousness that is by faith is a received righteousness. You aren't taught that either.

. . . the new man, created patterned after God, in righteousness and true holiness . . .

 

[marks]

Right, they were killed by God. Peter just received a word of knowledge from God of what was about to happen.

Did Peter even know that Ananias would die before that happened?

3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Did Peter even know that Ananias would die before that happened?

3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.

I believe he did in the same way he knew that Sapphira would join him. He also knew supernaturally that they were lying.

 

[marks]

You seem to agree with EG. Are you sure you understand what he's saying?

There is much he is saying, and much I agree with, but what in particular did you have in mind?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Definitely people can get confused over what they think they are seeing.

With Ananias and Sapphira, I'm curious why you are thinking this was something that involved Peter that they died. The fact that he was there at the time wouldn't be real evidence that Peter was actually involved in their deaths. We're only told that they died. Anything else would be assumed, would it not?

Much love!

Not Peter. Paul. And if the righteousness/holiness of God is seen through you, it is Gods righteousness/holiness that is being seen/shown. Paul was...a conduit of Gods righteousness/holiness.

 

[marks]

I believe he did in the same way he knew that Sapphira would join him. He also knew supernaturally that they were lying.

He clearly knew they were lying. I'm curious why you believe Peter knew Ananias was about to die, considering the Scripture does not tell us whether he knew or didn't know.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Not Peter. Paul. And if the righteousness/holiness of God is seen through you, it is Gods righteousness/holiness that is being seen/shown. Paul was...a conduit of Gods righteousness/holiness.

Can you tell me the situation you are referring to? I thought you were talking about when Ananias and Sapphira died. What passage did you have in mind?

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

He clearly knew they were lying. I'm curious why you believe Peter knew Ananias was about to die, considering the Scripture does not tell us whether he knew or didn't know.

Much love!

He knew the same way Jesus could say, I saw you under the fig tree. He knew because he saw. Because he was in the Spirit.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Can you tell me the situation you are referring to? I thought you were talking about when Ananias and Sapphira died. What passage did you have in mind?

Much love!

I'm talking about any situation in which the power of God was seen through the apostles.

Let me go look again. Maybe it WAS Peter...

 

[CharismaticLady]

He clearly knew they were lying. I'm curious why you believe Peter knew Ananias was about to die, considering the Scripture does not tell us whether he knew or didn't know.

Much love!

I assume he did, seeing as he prophesied that she would join him. If you don't want to assume, that's fine. If God told Peter some things, why not everything.

 

[CharismaticLady]

@marks

We are way past my post to you #633. Did you miss it?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

How are you ever able to enter His rest when you believe it's on you to perform the obedience by which God will justify you?

Why weren't they allowed to enter the place God had prepared for them and so they instead died in the wilderness? Why would God say it was because of unbelief if the obedience of faith wouldnt have allowed them entrance? They believed enough to step out under the walls of water and He saved them. But they didnt continue to trust Him when He let them become very thirsty to see if they would continue in trust. They did not continue in trust. He gave them 40 years to learn the obedience of trust. Only a few learned the obedience of trust and were allowed to enter the place He had prepared for them.

 

[marks]

Why weren't they allowed to enter the place God had prepared for them and so they instead died in the wilderness? Why would God say it was because of unbelief if the obedience of faith wouldnt have allowed them entrance? They believed enough to step out under the walls of water and He saved them. But they didnt continue to trust Him when He let them become very thirsty to see if they would continue in trust. They did not continue in trust. He gave them 40 years to learn the obedience of trust. Only a few learned the obedience of trust and were allowed to enter the place He had prepared for them.

You answer your own question. They didn't believe, so they didn't enter. Faith is that way.

We may think that we cannot walk consistently in the Spirit, and so we do not. But when we trust Jesus to supply that life, His life, to us, it's as Jesus said so many times, be it to you according to your faith. If we will believe Him always, rest always in His love, there is no need to ever leave.

Yes, they committed the disobedience of disbelief. Something some people miss is that the Gospel is a commandment from God. His words are in the imperative, Believe on the One Whom God sent. Believe in Me, Jesus tells us. If we do not give Him our obedience of faith, we will never know Him. Trust Him, at all times, and all times are transformed.

Much love!