Not by works - but by faith

[bbyrd009]

this is the HOPE of GLORY, that we put off this body for the New body so that we can be with the Lord forever.

Sorry G, you made up that “forever” part all by yourself, and I cannot agree with you. You seek to go up to heaven after you have died, to become an immortal, and that is all “death more abundantly” and not supported by the Bible. You got your “new body” when you came up out of that ritual baptism water, Or at least you were supposed to!

 

[Cristo Rei]

James said their faith was dead. He did not say they had faith, then lost it

I think this is why where the confusion comes in.

How can we say we are not saved by works, if works are required to keep us from falling from grace or they are required in addition to faith to save us.



James is talking to those who claim to have faith, but have never had works. To use james to declair that salvation can be lost is to take james out of context.

And saying I am saved no i can live in sin all I want. Who says this kind of Stuff? Are these doers of the word or hearers only? I would profess they are hearers only. Have these people repented? And if they have not (Which I declare is my belief) then have they ever been saved.

My response would be no. Because they have never had true saving faith, They may CLAIM to have faith. But they fact they are hearers only just shows they never had living faith and because they never had living faith, They never were saved by Grace through faith, and not of works (eph 2: 8-9) so they could be created into a new creature that does works (eph 2: 10)

and can we please not make this a catholic protestant issue? It is a bible issue, not a catholic protestant issue..

I apologize if u feel i was attacking Protestants, that was never my intention. Im not sure what u are disagreeing with. I said
"Say for example someone claims to be born again, saved. But they continue to live a life full of sin and bad deeds.
Protestants would say that he was never saved to begin with" To me that is what you are saying as well. From what I understand there are different views within the Protestant denominations anyway, some are virtually identical to the Catholic belief...

Im not here to battle other Christians over such things. I tried my best to remain objective and not criticize others... Anywayzzz
I'll just back off then and let u guys get on with it

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I came that you might have life more abundantly see no Death more abundantly in there at all

yet we still die. My father died a month ago, Unless Jesus returns first, I will most likely die within the next 30 years

 

[Eternally Grateful]

By all means go with that then and I wish you the best in your quest for Immortal ity

To everyone else who wish to become a Christian, I suggest you pay attention to them words the preachers sayin as you’re getting baptized :)

1 Cor 15:
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you amystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

55 “On Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?”

56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This contrast might be realized in the difference in faith between those who believe they are going up to heaven after they have died, “dead faith;” And those who understand that they are resurrected it baptism, life more abundantly

what is your thing with baptism? if I may ask

 

[bbyrd009]

1 Cor 15:
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you amystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

55 “On Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?”

56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.

So, as I probably already said to you, best of luck in your quest for immortality and going up to heaven after you have died, And have a nice day

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sorry G, you made up that “forever” part all by yourself, and I cannot agree with you. You seek to go up to heaven after you have died, to become an immortal, and that is all “death more abundantly” and not supported by the Bible. You got your “new body” when you came up out of that ritual baptism water, Or at least you were supposed to!

again, 1 cor 15 would be of great help to you.

We seek to be given what God has promised we will recieve

 

[bbyrd009]

what is your thing with baptism? if I may ask

Well, you may not recall, but the words are generally something like “buried with him in death, raised with him to new life in Christ” or something similar

 

[bbyrd009]

again, 1 cor 15 would be of great help to you.

We seek to be given what God has promised we will recieve

OK thank you, and putting the Bible down, right now, and going and sitting in a cave for about a month would be of great help to you, imo. You seek to go up to heaven after you have died, and you seek to become an immortal, Is that not correct? So then of course you will miss interpret Paul’s words to reflect that belief, And for what it’s worth I don’t blame you a bit, as virtually all of those who identify themselves as “Christian” are doing the same thing, right? Which is why we have to “leave the camp”

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I apologize if u feel i was attacking Protestants, that was never my intention.

No, I do no think this, I just think we need to get away from the its me vs you idea of studying scripture. and sit down together with all blinders and prejudgments and presuppositions set aside, and see what we can gleem from the word..

not sure what u are disagreeing with. I said
"Say for example someone claims to be born again, saved. But they continue to live a life full of sin and bad deeds.
Protestants would say that he was never saved to begin with" To me that is what you are saying as well. From what I understand there are different views within the Protestant denominations anyway, some are virtually identical to the Catholic belief...

see your trying to make this a protestant thing. When you do this, We can not have an honest discussion.

Lets not worry about what some people think or other people think

let sit together and see what James says.

James in his letter makes no mention of people having at one time had works, and now no longer have works, He is speaking to (not about) people who are in the church, and partaking in the church activities, But as he said earler are hearers of the word not doers. ie, they have no works

His question is,

What does it profit a person if they CLAIM to have faith, But has no work, CAN THIS FAITH SAVE THEM?

This is the question he asks, And this is the question he answers.

Im not here to battle other Christians over such things. I tried my best to remain objective and not criticize others... Anywayzzz
I'll just back off then and let u guys get on with it

Feel free to join in the conversation. As they say, Iron sharpens iron

 

[bbyrd009]

again, 1 cor 15 would be of great help to you.

We seek to be given what God has promised we will recieve

With all due respect if I interpreted 1 Corinthians 15 for you, you would probably cry, And if you really seek “life more abundantly” I sure wish you the best. You might give us a testimony of your experiences in the first three or 4 towns that you went to, got chased out of, etc.?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So, as I probably already said to you, best of luck in your quest for immortality and going up to heaven after you have died, And have a nice day

So the verse I just posted means nothing to you?

And again

I said I can not achieve immortality will you please stop putting words in my mouth.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Well, you may not recall, but the words are generally something like “buried with him in death, raised with him to new life in Christ” or something similar

Yes, You mean romans 6?

This is something God did to me, We call it baptism of the Holy Spirit

Sadly many people falsely interpret this to mean water baptism.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

OK thank you, and putting the Bible down, right now, and going and sitting in a cave for about a month would be of great help to you, imo. You seek to go up to heaven after you have died, and you seek to become an immortal, Is that not correct? So then of course you will miss interpret Paul’s words to reflect that belief, And for what it’s worth I don’t blame you a bit, as virtually all of those who identify themselves as “Christian” are doing the same thing, right? Which is why we have to “leave the camp”

ok, instead of just telling me how i misinterpreted his words

Can you show me,

I posted it for you. Break it down for me word for word.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

With all due respect if I interpreted 1 Corinthians 15 for you, you would probably cry, And if you really seek “life more abundantly” I sure wish you the best. You might give us a testimony of your experiences in the first three or 4 towns that you went to, got chased out of, etc.?

Again, Show me where I misinterpreted it

All I have is your accusation.

Try showing me

 

[Cristo Rei]

I'll just leave u guys with this. Its a joint declaration on the doctrine of justification made by the RCC and reformed churches in 1999
Like i said from my first posts, there isn't much difference and it's not worth arguing over as we do the same things anyway

By grace alone, in faith in Christ`s saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works

May the Lord be with you all

 

[101G]

Sorry G, you made up that “forever” part all by yourself, and I cannot agree with you. You seek to go up to heaven after you have died, to become an immortal, and that is all “death more abundantly” and not supported by the Bible. You got your “new body” when you came up out of that ritual baptism water, Or at least you were supposed to!

did I say anything about going up to heaven? if so post where I said that? or is it you trying to put words in someone else mouth, so post where I said going up to heaven

PICJAG.

 

[bbyrd009]

So the verse I just posted means nothing to you?

And again

I said I can not achieve immortality will you please stop putting words in my mouth.

ah well my apologies, I missed that, And the verses you posted can be interpreted in a better way, that agrees with the rest of scripture, so you don’t have to ignore the verses that don’t agree with that POV

 

[bbyrd009]

Again, Show me where I misinterpreted it

All I have is your accusation.

Try showing me

Well, you gotta admit we also have scripture, Quoted, but I will do my best to comply as soon as I get to a computer, OK?

The gist is going to be that all of Paul’s flowery words that suggest some magical transformation may also be interpreted As us, “changing our minds”

 

[bbyrd009]

yet we still die. My father died a month ago, Unless Jesus returns first, I will most likely die within the next 30 years

Ok,yes,and?

Plus with all due respect you cannot Quote “Jesus returning” From anywhere

We do not yet know what we will become see, At least unless we are professing Christians, who all have their “afterlife” all planned out, right?