entire sanctification is an obtainable goal.

[Randy Kluth]

In Philippians 3:15 it is written that as many as are perfect shall have a certain attitude, in context, that they will believe that they have not yet apprehended or were already made perfect. But it should be clear that even though they have this attitude, the Bible defines them as being perfect.

There are many verses which speak of the possibility of being sanctified wholly, among them are 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, 1 John 3:9, and Hebrews 10:14.

It should also be clear that Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, and 1 John 2:10 all declare that we do not have to fall into sin but can even be made faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy.

In 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, and 1 John 2:6, it becomes clear that we can be righteous even as He is righteous, pure even as He is pure, and can walk even as He walked.

The idea of "sinless perfection" exists in the Bible only in the sense it applied to Christ and to us *after* our glorification/immortalization. The Apostle John plainly says that if we deny we have sin, we make God a liar. He sent Christ to die for Man not because he had no redeeming virtue, but rather, because we bear the sin nature, and had to have it dealt with.

All the verses you would cite to speak of "perfection" actually refers to "completing a list of things we need to do," rather than sinless perfection. For example, we need to commit every idol in our life to Christ, though God does not expect this to make us sinless. We simply live in a state of submission to Christ.

Paul clearly depicted himself as "not yet having arrived." And his theology depicts man as "weak" and in need of reliance upon the strength of Christ. This does not communicate "perfection," but rather, the need for aid, or dependency. And nobody should ever suggest that "dependency" indicates perfection! ;)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

?
You assumed an error was truth.
The Scripture that clearly shows the osas doctrines you espouse are false, you ignore or change to your liking, because you already follow another voice, another way.

So all the "proof", is "POOF!", for you, gone, invisible, not acceptable, not comprehensible even to you.

Thats your opinion

But again, You have failed to prove this, So I must disagree,,

And again, if you are continue with just attacking my faith, with no evidence I will move on.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The idea of "sinless perfection" exists in the Bible only in the sense it applied to Christ and to us *after* our glorification/immortalization. The Apostle John plainly says that if we deny we have sin, we make God a liar. He sent Christ to die for Man not because he had no redeeming virtue, but rather, because we bear the sin nature, and had to have it dealt with.

All the verses you would cite to speak of "perfection" actually refers to "completing a list of things we need to do," rather than sinless perfection. For example, we need to commit every idol in our life to Christ, though God does not expect this to make us sinless. We simply live in a state of submission to Christ.

Paul clearly depicted himself as "not yet having arrived." And his theology depicts man as "weak" and in need of reliance upon the strength of Christ. This does not communicate "perfection," but rather, the need for aid, or dependency. And nobody should ever suggest that "dependency" indicates perfection! ;)

Again, Amen and Amen!

 

[Joseph77]

It is what God Says.
My opinion means nothing. I choose to follow Jesus. That is what is necessary if you want to be His .

Thats your opinion

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This is true. Since one of the premises you accepted (how long ago) is false, but it is your 'foundation', contrary to Scripture, but you believed it, being deceived by it,
no one, not even God Himself, can change your "mind"........ it is something even God will not do. You chose who you will follow , what you will believe, and God let you go that way.

"no one, not even God Himself, can change your "mind"

lol.. So now you are resorting to personal attacks?

I suggest you back away from saying these thiings

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It is what God Says.
My opinion means nothing. I choose to follow Jesus. That is what is necessary if you want to be His .

I chose to follow jesus over 40 years ago.

What you think can not change that

 

[Joseph77]

And again, if you are continue with just attacking my faith, with no evidence I will move on.

True again - "with no evidence"(of truth), you keep going on, and on, and on.... in error.....

Your 'faith' is to be separated by Jesus' Sword, from everyone, who seeks truth.

i.e. having faith in the error you have, makes it is necessary to become separated from that, in order to follow Jesus.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

True again - "with no evidence"(of truth), you keep going on, and on, and on.... in error.....

Your 'faith' is to be separated by Jesus' Sword, from everyone, who seeks truth.

i.e. having faith in the error you have, makes it is necessary to become separated from that, in order to follow Jesus.

again, Personal opinion. No facts or evidence provided

 

[Joseph77]

"no one, not even God Himself, can change your "mind"

lol.. So now you are resorting to personal attacks?

I suggest you back away from saying these thiings

Do you think Scripture says God forces people's minds to change ? Can God change your mind, against your will ?
Nothing personal about that, except for those outside... opposed to Jesus.

We are to WILLINGLY choose to follow Jesus, not be forced to, as many as Love Him, who are called according to His Purpose !

NO FORCE, God uses no force, to get us to follow Jesus - WE CHOOSE !

 

[Joseph77]

again, Personal opinion. No facts or evidence provided

Same response exactly to all of your posts, and anyone else going the wrong direction, with false teachings (apparently (not sure) of copeland) .
Is that the one where you got the false ideas from ?

God's Word, ALL CREATION, is a witness.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Do you think Scripture says God forces people's minds to change ? Can God change your mind, against your will ?
Nothing personal about that, except for those outside... opposed to Jesus.

We are to WILLINGLY choose to follow Jesus, not be forced to, as many as Love Him, who are called according to His Purpose !

NO FORCE, God uses no force, to get us to follow Jesus - WE CHOOSE !

I chose 40 some years ago

And yes, When you tell a person not even God can change our mind, it is a personal attack.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Same response exactly to all of your posts, and anyone else going the wrong direction, with false teachings (apparently (not sure) of copeland) .
Is that the one where you got the false ideas from ?

God's Word, ALL CREATION, is a witness.

Good day sir

 

[Joseph77]

Well.
You have yet to prove this point
So I will continue to believe until you or someone else can show me otherwise.
And if all you are going to do is say I am wrong in every post. I will discontinue any conversation with you.

==========================================
QUOTE="Candidus, post: 737338, member: 8508"]Making up your own supporting evidence is the modus operandi of someone committed to a predetermined philosophy they mentally to justify. It is pure circular reasoning that extrabiblical does not need the Scriptures for its justification.[/QUOTE

 

[marks]

Obviously, you have not read up enough on Gnostic beliefs. It would be best to see their separation of the Physical and Spiritual worlds. If you had received Gnosis, you would have known this.

What's obvious to me is that there is much one can say about Gnosticism, and I grabbed something quick to demonstrate the fallacy in using that label as a pejorative.

I did happen to touch on that in my post #308.

Equally obvious is your wish to put me down also, so it seems that's what you do.

That's too bad!

Makes for poor conversation in my opinion.

 

[Joseph77]

And yes, When you tell a person not even God can change our mind, it is a personal attack.

DO YOU BELIEVE GOD CAN CHANGE YOUr MIND AGAINST YOUR WILL ? If so, provide SCRIPTURE.

Your teachings and beliefs are (apparently and constantly, as posted by you) contrary to all Scripture - that is what is wrong - you are offended by the truth.

 

[FollowHim]

Making up your own supporting evidence is the modus operandi of someone committed to a predetermined philosophy they mentally to justify. It is pure circular reasoning that extrabiblical does not need the Scriptures for its justification.

The bible is a mirror, and often reflects back what the reader wants to see. It makes sense with such open ended experiences and statements. The sad thing is when that image is taken as truth, and any other perspective is a lie or a distortion, or even the words spoken by others must be changed to fit with the model.

And the changing of other peoples words is disturbing, because this is blatant fraud. And not on the scale of saying what someone said without them knowing, but right in front of them. But then arrogance and the right to do this seems to come naturally to some personalities, but in grace we can be very gentle and encouraging, but unfortunately thorns and thistles is all one will get.

You could say they are lying, but then lying suggests it is hidden and both things are not there together. I would call this delusional, because what is written is written, but you can interpret it in different ways. Being definitive is simply a waste of time and a joke.
But then jokers are not really people one can take seriously, no matter how much they jump up and down and have trantrums.

 

[Candidus]

The devil is not given an opportunity to make it nore does he desire to

Loopholes? lol, I my friend is not looking for loopholes

I am also not trying to save myself by thinking I am something I am not.

One does not have to look hard to see that the Bible is full of warnings and exhortations: Exhortations to not sin, to pursue holiness, to BE holy, sanctified and perfect. There are warnings everywhere to abide, continue and remain in Christ. If it were not possible for a Christian to ever do anything but continue and remain in Christ.... to what purpose would God exhort them?

One has to strain to find the a passage that appears to give room for the Sinning Christian Religion. Yes, it is "looking for loopholes" when you have to get by page after page in a Bible to lock onto a passage to justify sin.

 

[Joseph77]

Good for who?

Good day sir

Making up your own supporting evidence is the modus operandi of someone committed to a predetermined philosophy they mentally to justify. It is pure circular reasoning that extrabiblical does not need the Scriptures for its justification.

I chose to follow jesus over 40 years ago.
What you think can not change that

"again, Personal opinion. No facts or evidence provided"

 

[marks]

Jesus purchased sin? I don't think that you can find that in any Bible!

What?

That has nothing to do with anything I've said.

It seems you are presenting a pattern of giving pejoratives and spins designed to make others look foolish, or deluded. This is your sinless Chrsitianity?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What?

That has nothing to do with anything I've said.

It seems you are presenting a pattern of giving pejoratives and spins designed to make others look foolish, or deluded. This is your sinless Chrsitianity?

all I can do wonder