I guess I don't want to look too much at myself anymore! ;) So long as I keep my eyes on Christ, all is well!
Much love!
Fear God or Presume acceptance
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RonaldMcjeraldMcjerald
Member
Diverting from the person quoting above, can a man be perfect in Christ? He fell in himself, but can he stand up in Christ? If not, why not?
Scripturally? Sure. See the first chapter of 1st Corinthians.... (I'll quote it in a couple minutes, God Willing, in next post)
If not - well, most people never make it to the 1st chapter of Corinthians at all, nor to be Jesus' disciple.
RonaldMcjeraldMcjerald
Member
I'm going to be blunt and say no verse you quote will support your theory. It is just misunderstood. All men have fallen short of God, but there is nothing that states they must keep falling short of God in Christ.
"1 Corinthians 1 J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)
1 1-3 Paul, commissioned by the will of God as a messenger of Jesus Christ, and Sosthenes, a Christian brother, to the church of God at Corinth—to those whom Christ has made holy, who are called to be God’s men and women, to all true believers in Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours—grace and peace be to you from God the Father and the Lord, Jesus Christ!
I am thankful for your faith
4-9 I am always thankful to God for what the gift of his grace in Jesus Christ has meant to you—how, as the Christian message has become established among you, he has enriched your whole lives, from the words on your lips to the understanding in your hearts. And you have been eager to receive his gifts during this time of waiting for his final appearance. He will keep you steadfast in the faith to the end, so that when his day comes you need fear no condemnation. God is utterly dependable, and it is he who has called you into fellowship with his Son Jesus Christ, our Lord.
But I am anxious over your “divisions”
10-12 Now I do beg you, my brothers, by all that Christ means to you, to speak with one voice, and not allow yourselves to be split up into parties. All together you should be achieving a unity in thought and judgment. For I know, from what some of C
e’s people have told me that you are each making different claims—“I am one of Paul’s men,” says one; “I am one of Apollos’,” says another; or “I am one of Cephas’”; while someone else says, “I owe my faith to Christ alone.”
Do consider how serious these division are!
13 What are you saying? Is there more than one Christ? Was it Paul who died on the cross for you? Were you baptised in the name of Paul?
14-17 It makes me thankful that I didn’t actually baptise any of you (except Crispus and Gaius), or perhaps someone would be saying I did it in my own name. (Oh yes, I did baptise Stephanas’ family, but I can’t remember anyone else.) For Christ did not send me to see how many I could baptise, but to proclaim the Gospel. And I have not done this by the persuasiveness of clever words, for I have no desire to rob the cross of its power.
18 The preaching of the cross is, I know, nonsense to those who are involved in this dying world, but to us who are being saved from that death it is nothing less than the power of God.
The cross shows that God’s wisdom is not man’s wisdom by any means
19 It is written: ‘I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent’.
20-25 For consider, what have the philosopher, the writer and the critic of this world to show for all their wisdom? Has not God made the wisdom of this world look foolish? for it was after the world in its wisdom failed to know God, that he in his wisdom chose to save all who would believe by the “simple-mindedness” of the Gospel message. For the Jews ask for miraculous proofs and the Greeks an intellectual panacea, but all we preach is Christ crucified—a stumbling block to the Jews and sheer nonsense to the Gentiles, but for those who are called, whether Jews or Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. And this is really only natural, for God’s foolishness” is wiser than men, and his “weakness” is stronger than men.
Nor are God’s values the same as man’s
26-31 For look at your own calling as Christians, my brothers. You don’t see among you many of the wise (according to this world’s judgment) nor many of the ruling class, nor many from the noblest families. But God has chosen what the world calls foolish to shame the wise; he has chosen what the world calls weak to shame the strong. He has chosen things of little strength and small repute, yes and even things which have no real existence to explode the pretensions of the things that are—that no man may boast in the presence of God. Yet from this same God you have received your standing in Jesus Christ, and he has become for us the true wisdom, a matter, in practice, of being made righteous and holy, in fact, of being redeemed. And this makes us see the truth of scripture: ‘He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.
J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)
The New Testament in Modern English by J.B Phillips copyright © 1960, 1972 J. B. Phillips. Administered by The Archbishops’ Council of the Church of England. Used by Permission.
"
1 1-3 Paul, commissioned by the will of God as a messenger of Jesus Christ, and Sosthenes, a Christian brother, to the church of God at Corinth—to those whom Christ has made holy, who are called to be God’s men and women, to all true believers in Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours—grace and peace be to you from God the Father and the Lord, Jesus Christ!
I am thankful for your faith
4-9 I am always thankful to God for what the gift of his grace in Jesus Christ has meant to you—how, as the Christian message has become established among you, he has enriched your whole lives, from the words on your lips to the understanding in your hearts. And you have been eager to receive his gifts during this time of waiting for his final appearance. He will keep you steadfast in the faith to the end, so that when his day comes you need fear no condemnation. God is utterly dependable, and it is he who has called you into fellowship with his Son Jesus Christ, our Lord.
But I am anxious over your “divisions”
10-12 Now I do beg you, my brothers, by all that Christ means to you, to speak with one voice, and not allow yourselves to be split up into parties. All together you should be achieving a unity in thought and judgment. For I know, from what some of C
e’s people have told me that you are each making different claims—“I am one of Paul’s men,” says one; “I am one of Apollos’,” says another; or “I am one of Cephas’”; while someone else says, “I owe my faith to Christ alone.”Do consider how serious these division are!
13 What are you saying? Is there more than one Christ? Was it Paul who died on the cross for you? Were you baptised in the name of Paul?
14-17 It makes me thankful that I didn’t actually baptise any of you (except Crispus and Gaius), or perhaps someone would be saying I did it in my own name. (Oh yes, I did baptise Stephanas’ family, but I can’t remember anyone else.) For Christ did not send me to see how many I could baptise, but to proclaim the Gospel. And I have not done this by the persuasiveness of clever words, for I have no desire to rob the cross of its power.
18 The preaching of the cross is, I know, nonsense to those who are involved in this dying world, but to us who are being saved from that death it is nothing less than the power of God.
The cross shows that God’s wisdom is not man’s wisdom by any means
19 It is written: ‘I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent’.
20-25 For consider, what have the philosopher, the writer and the critic of this world to show for all their wisdom? Has not God made the wisdom of this world look foolish? for it was after the world in its wisdom failed to know God, that he in his wisdom chose to save all who would believe by the “simple-mindedness” of the Gospel message. For the Jews ask for miraculous proofs and the Greeks an intellectual panacea, but all we preach is Christ crucified—a stumbling block to the Jews and sheer nonsense to the Gentiles, but for those who are called, whether Jews or Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. And this is really only natural, for God’s foolishness” is wiser than men, and his “weakness” is stronger than men.
Nor are God’s values the same as man’s
26-31 For look at your own calling as Christians, my brothers. You don’t see among you many of the wise (according to this world’s judgment) nor many of the ruling class, nor many from the noblest families. But God has chosen what the world calls foolish to shame the wise; he has chosen what the world calls weak to shame the strong. He has chosen things of little strength and small repute, yes and even things which have no real existence to explode the pretensions of the things that are—that no man may boast in the presence of God. Yet from this same God you have received your standing in Jesus Christ, and he has become for us the true wisdom, a matter, in practice, of being made righteous and holy, in fact, of being redeemed. And this makes us see the truth of scripture: ‘He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.
J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)
The New Testament in Modern English by J.B Phillips copyright © 1960, 1972 J. B. Phillips. Administered by The Archbishops’ Council of the Church of England. Used by Permission.
"
What theory ? I did not post any theory.
Apparently misunderstood, yes.
RonaldMcjeraldMcjerald
Member
Yes, you misunderstoof my post. As for your theory, your theory that the answer to can a man stand up in Christ is no
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I am going to continue to say that.
Belief is the noun for which believe is the verb, but faith, as a noun, doesn't have it's own verb, like, "faithe" or something. I'm realizing that using "believe" as the verb for faith may not be the best, so I'm thinking "trust" is the better choice.
So that which is not of faith is sin. Righteousness acts are the fruit of faith, as we trust Jesus. Sin is the result when we are not trusting Him, instead striking out on our own.
Still thinking about the rest of your post.
Much love!
Hi EG,
I think the past/future sins being referred to is "before and after a person's repentance in coming to faith in Christ", something like that.
I believe all sin was transferred to Christ to be removed through the cross, and all sin is gone away. But historically it's still playing out in humanity.
I think what @CharismaticLady is talking about is that forgiveness is applied to all sins previously committed when one becomes a Christian, but that sins yet to be committed aren't included in that first dispensation of forgiveness, and additional forgiveness needs to be sought to apply to those sins as they occur after becoming a Christian, in her view, continuing to forgive others so that God continues to forgive us.
CL, am I saying this right?
Much love!
Hi Ronald,
I'm not sure I understand your question. Can you ask in perhaps a different way?
Much love!
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
RonaldMcjeraldMcjerald
Member
I'll make it simpler so you can understand: can a Christian be perfect in Christ? His power lead him to be perfect, so why can't it lead you to be perfect? In other words, why do you have to keep falling in Christ?
I really look at this very differently from you.
I don't think that ignorance of knowledge of sin is what is at issue. I don't think even the commission of sin is the issue. The sinner sins, and the child of God does righteousness.
Some of the thoughts out there are . . .
A child of God sins, and it just shows they aren't a child of God, because no child of God sins.
A child of God sins, and they stop being a child of God.
A child of God sins, and they have a way to make it right with God, and they do, or they don't.
Or is there another option?
You've pointed to something done that you recognize was wrong, and perceive God did a miracle with you, in that even though there was sin, yet there was no separation.
You've pointed to God's foreknowledge as the reason. That He knew you would be righteous at the end, so He did not count the sin, and did not separate from you.
I suggest there is a different reason. I think this does begin with foreknowledge . . .
Romans 8
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Having foreknown us, He predestinated us, set limits in advance, to be made just like Jesus. So He also called, and justified, and glorified.
God gives us Christ, and everything else. None can charge or condemn us, because God justifies us, because Christ died and rose again, and died and rose in Him.
I think that God has justified us away from sin, that this is to be born a new creation, not in the line of Adam, not from the man of earth, earthy, but from the man of heaven, heavenly.
Much love!
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
The above is the most blatant, anti-biblical, false prophecying and false gospel I've seen to date.
Self, all im talking about is Christ. We are not talking about what He Christ has done we are talking about "you" now, I asked a simple question of which neither of you are willing to answer, thats the sin of "pride" trying to make the outside of the cup look clean, So why is it you cant answer with a simple yes or no. Are you perfect now.
You can hide from man, not from God.
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, Romans 8:1. The above shows true ignorance of the gospel of grace, the balance of the post is utter heresy, full of "I's" and devoid of the true gospel.
RonaldMcjeraldMcjerald
Member
Anti biblical huh, and why should that matter. Seriously, justify the bible. The only thing God sent down to guide people was HIS SPIRIT, never in any prophecies was this pillar called the bible that you speak up. And don't go thinking that God didn't prophecy about the bible for the same reason he didn't prophecy about the prophets. Rather, he prophecied about every pillar of the new covenant, and if the bible were a pillar, then it would have been prophesied about. However, it wasn't in the slightest. This is a pillar of your own creation, not God's
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