Virgin Mary Had Other Children After Jesus

[Taken]

Not hard to find. His stench precedes him. Do you preach brotherly love? Do you preach compassion?

I never claimed to be a Preacher.

Do you greet your fellow Christians?

I greet all kinds of people.
I don't grill them first to see if that are worthy to be Greeted, as you infer.

Let us all see your character.

LOL

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Grailhunter]

MARY WORSHIP? A Study of Catholic Practice and Doctrine

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]BIBLICAL MARY

CATHOLIC MARY

THE GODDESS
Humble and obedient. Calls herself “the handmaid of the Lord.”

The Pope officially gave Mary the title “Queen of Heaven” and established a feast day honoring Mary, Queen of Heaven.

Wiccans call their goddess the “Queen of Heaven."
Knew she needed a savior: “And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my saviour.” (Luke 1:47)

“Immaculate Conception” (Mary was conceived sinless, without original sin) and “All-Holy” (Mary lived a sinless life).

Goddesses don't need salvation. They make the rules.
Normal wife and mother who had other children.

“Perpetual Virginity” (Jesus' brothers and sisters are considered to be cousins).

Goddesses don't have human children.
No biblical evidence that Mary didn't die like a normal person.

“Glorious Assumption” (Mary was bodily taken up into Heaven).

Goddesses don't die.[/FONT]​

Queen of Heaven, and all the Earth. (Regina Caeli in Latin) is a title given to Mary, mother of Jesus, by Christians, mainly of the Catholic Church and, to a lesser extent, in Anglicanism, Lutheranism, and the Eastern Orthodox Church.

The title is a consequence of the First Council of Ephesus in the fifth century, in which Mary was proclaimed “Theotokos” a title rendered in Latin as Mater Dei, in English “Mother of God.

The Lutheran Confessions (Article XXI of the Augsburg Confession and Apology) support Luther in giving a threefold outline for how Christians may appropriately give honor to Mary and all other saints. Additionally, how Christians speak about her reflects what the Church believes about Christ’s nature and His disposition towards His creation.

Oh look...more people to hate, judge, and condemn! You should be spreading your wings and doing a demon dance!

 

[Grailhunter]

I never claimed to be a Preacher.



I greet all kinds of people.
I don't grill them first to see if that are worthy to be Greeted, as you infer.



LOL

Glory to God,
Taken

I don't grill them first to see if that are worthy to be Greeted, as you infer.
Grill them! I say love your fellow Christians. I think it is called brotherly love. What you practice is brotherly hate.

 

[Taken]

Caught you in yet another LIE. MY Church doesn't teach what you're claiming in RED.
And, by the way - YOU claimed that the Bible indicated that Mary was their mother. The Bible does NOT state this.

Your second LIE in RED , - about Moses is something you will have to prove.
The Israelites NEVER knew where Moses was buried.

I want Chapter and Verse for your moronic claim . . .

Learn your own Church History and Traditions of what Catholics through the centuries have Taught and Believed.

 

[Joseph77]

Learn your own Church History and Traditions of what Catholics through the centuries have Taught and Believed.

Good if anyone can hear, or is seeking the truth apart from false tradition.... trusting Jesus instead of .... that guy in a red costume?(or white one?)
Fifty Years in the Church of Rome, by Charles Chiniquy


Celibacy
Chapter 15 . . . The Impurities of the Theology of Rome
Chapter 16 . . . The Priests of Rome and the Holy Fathers; or, how I Swore to give up the Word of God to follow the Word of Men
Chapter 17 . . . The Roman Catholic Priesthood, or Ancient and Modern Idolatry
Chapter 18 . . . Nine Consequences of the Dogma of Transubstantiation- The Old Paganism under a Christian Name

 

[Paul Christensen]

Well I am off the pope's official email list and since I know you and you will deny any and all facts, so I am only so concerned.

The Second Vatican Council's Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained.
Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

“Outside the Church there is no salvation” (extra ecclesiam nulla salus) is a doctrine of the Catholic Faith that was taught By Jesus Christ to His Apostles, preached by the Fathers, defined by popes and councils and piously believed by the faithful in every age of the Church. Here is how the Popes defined it:
Outside the Church there is no Salvation Archives - Catholicism.org

Also well-known is the Catholic teaching that no one can be saved [without] the Catholic Church. Eternal salvation cannot be obtained by those who oppose the authority and statements of the same Church and are stubbornly separated from the unity of the Church and also from the successor of Peter, the Roman Pontiff, to whom the custody of the vineyard has been committed by the Savior." Sacrament of Salvation
In an expression of the authentic Magisterium, the college of bishops further explained this doctrine in the context of Christocentric sacramental theology at Vatican II
Without the Church There Is No Salvation

"This dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church herself understands it. For it was not to private judgment that Our Saviour gave for explanation those things that are contained in the deposits of faith, but to the teaching authority of the Church. "Now, in the first place, the Church teaches that in this matter there is a question of a most strict command of Jesus Christ. For He explicitly enjoined on his apostles to teach all nations to observe all things whatsoever He Himself had commanded. Now, among the commandments of Christ, one that holds not the least place, is that by which we are commanded to be incorporated by Baptism into the Mystical Body of Christ, which is the Church, and to remain united to Christ and to his Vicar, through whom He Himself in a visible manner governs the Church on earth.
"Therefore, no one will be saved who, knowing the Church to have been divinely established by Christ, nevertheless refuses to submit to the Church or withholds obedience from the Roman pontiff, the Vicar of Christ on earth. Not only did the Saviour command that all nations should enter the Church, but He also decreed the Church to be a means of salvation, without which no one can enter the kingdom of eternal glory."
[Letter of the S.C. of the H. Office, Aug. 8, 1949 to the Archbishop of Boston (CH 1256-7)].
SSPXAsia.com: Must we believe that outside of the Catholic Church there is no salvation?

What is to be held of the opinion that people who live outside of the Catholic Faith and Unity can inherit Eternal Life in Heaven?
"This is absolutely contrary to Catholic teaching. We know (...) that those who are invincibly ignorant of our most holy religion, and who, carefully observing the natural law and its precepts placed by God in the hearts of all men, and, disposed to obey God, lead an honest and upright life, can, with the help of divine light and grace, merit eternal life; for God, who has perfect knowledge, examines and judges the minds, the souls, the thoughts and deeds of all men, and does not permit, in his sovereign goodness and mercy, any man not culpable of willful sin to be punished with eternal torment. But this Catholic dogma is equally well known: that one cannot be saved outside the Catholic Church, and that those who knowingly rebel against the teaching and authority of the Church cannot obtain eternal salvation, nor can those who willfully separate themselves from union with the Church and with the Roman Pontiff, the successor of Peter, to whom the Saviour has entrusted the safe-keeping of his vineyard.
"The words of Jesus Christ are in fact extremely clear: 'If he will not hear the Church, let him be to thee as a heathen and a publican' (13). 'He that heareth you heareth me, and he that despiseth you despiseth me, and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me' (14). 'He that believeth not will be condemned' (15). 'He that believeth not is already judged' (16). 'He that is not with me is against me and he that gathereth not with me, scattereth' (17). So the Apostle Paul says that men are subverted and condemned by their own judgment (18), and the Prince of the Apostles calls 'lying teachers them who shall bring in sects of perdition, and deny the Lord who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction' (19)". [Pope Pius IX Letter Quanto conficiamur maerore, August 10, 1863, to the Italian Episcopate (CH 242-3)].
SSPXAsia.com: Must we believe that outside of the Catholic Church there is no salvation?

The history of the doctrine that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church
Some of the most pertinent Catholic expressions of this doctrine are: the profession of faith of Pope Innocent III (1208), the profession of faith of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), the bull Unam sanctam of Pope Boniface VIII (1302), and the profession of faith of the Council of Florence (1442). The axiom "No salvation outside the Church" has been frequently repeated over the centuries in different terms by the ordinary magisterium.

The fact of the matter is that it has always been the pipe dream of any denomination that the beliefs in the pews adhere to the official doctrines of each specific denomination. In reality it does not happen. I am not saying that all Catholics believe that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church.
But then Historically...official doctrine....I am saying that. And I am also saying that in more recent times the Catholic Church has shown signs of softening of this doctrine.

Then again, like I said, I know you....and if the Pope came to your house and told you personally and handed you a document with his official seal....you would call him a liar. So I am done.

They can't deny that the official teaching of their church is that we will all go to hell except them. It is as clear as the noses on their faces. So, even though the Pope says that we are all brothers in Christ, he is telling an outright lie, because he wouldn't be the Pope if he didn't believe the official teaching of the RCC. So, I don't think we should be fooled into thinking that he actually accepts anyone outside of the RCC as being saved. And, where the RCC is prominent, such as in some South American countries, anyone outside of the RCC is treated as almost non-gratis and a sinner bound for hell.

So, let's not be fooled by a smooth-talking Pope who is lying through his teeth. And the Scripture says that liars will have their share in the lake of fire.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Learn your own Church History and Traditions of what Catholics through the centuries have Taught and Believed.

Already know it.
Now - back to YOUR lies . . .

- Show me Biblical proof for YOUR claim that the Israelites knew where Moses was buried.
- Show me proof for YOUR claim that the Catholic Church officially teaches that the "siblings" of Jesus were actually Joseph's children from a previous marriage.

If not - just admit you LIED, and we'll move on . . .

 

[Joseph77]

Fifty Years in the Church of Rome, by Charles Chiniquy

 

[Grailhunter]

Good if anyone can hear, or is seeking the truth apart from false tradition.... trusting Jesus instead of .... that guy in a red costume?(or white one?)
Fifty Years in the Church of Rome, by Charles Chiniquy


Celibacy
Chapter 15 . . . The Impurities of the Theology of Rome
Chapter 16 . . . The Priests of Rome and the Holy Fathers; or, how I Swore to give up the Word of God to follow the Word of Men
Chapter 17 . . . The Roman Catholic Priesthood, or Ancient and Modern Idolatry
Chapter 18 . . . Nine Consequences of the Dogma of Transubstantiation- The Old Paganism under a Christian Name

Charles Paschal Telesphore Chiniquy (30 July 1809 – 16 January 1899) was a Canadian Catholic priest who left the Catholic Church and became a Presbyterian minister. He rode the lecture circuit in the United States denouncing the Catholic Church. His themes were that it was pagan, that Catholics worshipped the Virgin Mary, and that its theology was anti-Christian.

He warned of plots by the Vatican to take control of the United States by importing Catholic immigrants from Ireland, Germany, and France, and suggested that the Vatican was behind the assassination of President Abraham Lincoln.

In other words someone that defected from the Catholic Church...another Catholic hater and a conspiracy theorist.

Hate, judge, condemn....walking in the footprints of Satan.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Already know it.
Now - back to YOUR lies . . .

- Show me Biblical proof for YOUR claim that the Israelites knew where Moses was buried.
- Show me proof for YOUR claim that the Catholic Church officially teaches that the "siblings" of Jesus were actually Joseph's children from a previous marriage.

If not - just admit you LIED, and we'll move on . . .

Why don't you just come clean and let us all know that the only people, according to the clear official teachings of the RCC are RCC people will be saved, and all others will be damned to hell. That's what you really and honestly believe isn't it? Come on. Be truthful and come right out with it!

 

[Joseph77]

HALLELUYAH ! God saved a priest ! HALLELUYAH ! so it IS POSSIBLE ! HALLELUYAH ! PRAISE JESUS !

Charles Paschal Telesphore Chiniquy (30 July 1809 – 16 January 1899) was a Canadian Catholic priest who left the Catholic Church

 

[BreadOfLife]

Good if anyone can hear, or is seeking the truth apart from false tradition.... trusting Jesus instead of .... that guy in a red costume?(or white one?)
Fifty Years in the Church of Rome, by Charles Chiniquy

Ahhhh, yes - Charles Chiniquy.
The same moron who accused the Catholic church of assasinating Abraham Lincoln - which Jack Chick featured in one of HIS comic book "tracts".

I guess we should add him to the Hislop>>Chiniquy>>Boettner>>Chick Ignorant Anti- Catholic Express . . .

 

[Joseph77]

Good if anyone can hear, or is seeking the truth apart from false tradition.... trusting Jesus instead of .... that guy in a red costume?(or white one?)
Fifty Years in the Church of Rome, by Charles Chiniquy

 

[BreadOfLife]

Why don't you just come clean and let us all know that the only people, according to the clear official teachings of the RCC are RCC people will be saved, and all others will be damned to hell. That's what you really and honestly believe isn't it? Come on. Be truthful and come right out with it!

Not only is this a LIE of gargantuan proportions - I have never made this claim on this or any other forum.

As a matter of fact - I have repeatedly stated the Church's position, Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus (Outside the Church There Is No Salvation), which clearly states:
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

 

[Paul Christensen]

Ahhhh, yes - Charles Chiniquy.
The same moron who accused the Catholic church of assasinating Abraham Lincoln - which Jack Chick featured in one of HIS comic book "tracts".

I guess we should add him to the Hislop>>Chiniquy>>Boettner>>Chick Ignorant Anti- Catholic Express . . .

Oh! So if the RCC says in its official teaching that only RCCs are going to heaven, and all others are going to hell, then isn't the RCC including yourself, anti-nonCatholics?

I think that is what is behind the acidic, acrimonious reactions to posts written here by non-Catholics. You are totally anti anyone who does not subscribe to the RCC and its doctrines.

So, if you try to say that we are your brothers and sisters in Christ, you would be lying, because the church that you are stoutly defending doesn't believe that at all.

 

[Grailhunter]

They can't deny that the official teaching of their church is that we will all go to hell except them. It is as clear as the noses on their faces. So, even though the Pope says that we are all brothers in Christ, he is telling an outright lie, because he wouldn't be the Pope if he didn't believe the official teaching of the RCC. So, I don't think we should be fooled into thinking that he actually accepts anyone outside of the RCC as being saved. And, where the RCC is prominent, such as in some South American countries, anyone outside of the RCC is treated as almost non-gratis and a sinner bound for hell.

So, let's not be fooled by a smooth-talking Pope who is lying through his teeth. And the Scripture says that liars will have their share in the lake of fire.

No mystery. History is history. Protestants are called Protestants for a reason....Protest Churches. The early Protestants hated the Catholics and the Catholics considered them heretics. In the Protestants defense the corruption of the Church was obvious. Luther's 95 theses was accurate. Still hatred is not a good foundation for a religion. Luther intended to reform the Catholic Church but his movement got away from him.

But now "cooler" head prevail and the Church has softened it views. There is no church that has a monopoly on salvation.
All this is still in progress. The efforts of the Protestants have fractured the church and it is time to consider that we are all Christians. With Moslems biting at our heals and communism and atheism at our gates it is time to have a unified front. Christians are not our enemy.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Not only is this a LIE of gargantuan proportions - I have never made this claim on this or any other forum.

As a matter of fact - I have repeatedly stated the Church's position, Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus (Outside the Church There Is No Salvation), which clearly states:
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

The RCC interpretation is abundantly clear, and it showed its true belief in the Middle Ages, when it burned anyone who would not accept its authority, even whole cities of 70,000 men, women and children who did not accept the authority of the pope of the time.

So, it doesn't matter how you try to sweeten the medicine, the clear official teaching is that salvation comes only through the RCC and to be saved one has to convert to Catholicism.

So, your own church teaching is totally undermining everything you are trying to say.

 

[Grailhunter]

Good if anyone can hear, or is seeking the truth apart from false tradition.... trusting Jesus instead of .... that guy in a red costume?(or white one?)
Fifty Years in the Church of Rome, by Charles Chiniquy

Keep on hating! Joseph77 preaches the gospel of hate! Yep he know the Bible.

 

[Joseph77]

No mystery. History is history. Protestants are called Protestants for a reason....Protest Churches.

AMEN ! The devil got a religion called babylon that took over most of the world and most of christendom, for a long long time with little if any relief... ...

Then GOD, the ALMIGHTY, BY DESIGN< set Martin Luther, and others FREE,

so THEY ALL, who were free, PROTESTED AGAINST THE DEVIL and all his minions....

HALLELUYAH !

 

[Grailhunter]

AMEN ! The devil got a religion called babylon that took over most of the world and most of christendom, for a long long time with little if any relieve ...

Then GOD, the ALMIGHTY, BY DESIGN< set Martin Luther, and others FREE,

so THEY ALL, who were free, PROTESTED AGAINST THE DEVIL and all his minions....

HALLELUYAH !

Spread those wings and follow the footsteps of Satan. Gospel of hate...mouth spewing judgement and condemnation of fellow Christians!