Virgin Mary Had Other Children After Jesus
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Since it was in a form of a question rather than an accusation as not in a format of a question lobbied at him directly, I don't see it that way.
Only God knows for sure the intentions of the heart of the poster on either side in the progress of the discussion in this thread.
We can judge the issue, but when it comes to rightly dividing the word of truth, it is hard not to be seen as proving that the other is wrong, without offending the brother in error who still refuses to see it that way no matter how well He helps walk thru the scripture in rightly dividing the word of truth.
Stan B
Well-Known Member
That sounds like a prayer utilized by RCC in communicating with their goddess. But she is not the only dead person Catholics pray to. But this practice of course is not Christian, it is a pagan practice tossed into the face of God, who says HE detests those who invoke the dead"
"When you enter the land which the Lord your God gives you, you shall not learn to imitate the detestable things of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone . . who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For whoever does these things is DETESTABLE TO THE Lord; and because of these detestable things the Lord your God will drive them out before you. You shall be blameless before the Lord your God. For those nations, which you shall dispossess, listen to those who practice witchcraft and to diviners, but as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you to do so." Deut 18:9
And how can this dead woman be the mother of the eternal God, Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life?
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Ah, I see, you didn't actually reply to my post. Anyway I believe the bible when it speaks of Jesus having brother/siblings. It doesn't say Mary - bless her - was a perpetual virgin. If she was she was a very poor wife to Joseph.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
That sounds like a prayer utilized by RCC in communicating with their goddess.
Find a Catholic document that calls Mary – Miriam a Goddess.
But she is not the only dead person Catholics pray to. But this practice of course is not Christian, it is a pagan practice tossed into the face of God, who says HE detests those who invoke the dead"
Ok I will play your game….was Christ detested or accursed when He called up Moses and Elijah? The Apostles Peter James and John witnesses this and would of recalled the sin of Saul when conjuring up Samuel….
Christ told His apostles that they had to eat his flesh and drink His blood….and if they did not, there would be no life in them and they would not abide in Him. Literal or symbolic, it smacks of a Pagan ritual and the Apostles reacted in kind….And Christ gave them no choice….Is Christ Pagan?…is He accursed?
So you are a free-lance Christian that after 1500 years stands up and proclaims you are right and a Church that is arguably over 1500 years old, is wrong. How many Catholic martyrs died for their faith? How many Protestant martyrs?
We can trace over 30,000 interpretations of the scriptures to Protestant denominations….there is no agreement between Protestant Christians....just clusters of beliefs. And then there is free-lance Christians….millions. So at this point there is no standard interpretation. It is like nailing Jell-o to a wall.
Deut 18:9…..Sorry I am not Jewish….Have you sold your daughters and granddaughters into concubinage yet?
And how can this dead woman be the mother of the eternal God,
She is dead…..same as Martin Luther and as dead as you and I will be. But some of us will have eternal life….and the Mother of God…..might hold a different position….take it up with God.
Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life?
So Christ did not have a Father? He is not the Son of God? Did Christ create the world? How many times did He conceive Him? Was He always known as the Son of God?.... If God the Holy Spirit and God the Son were in the Old Testament....you would not need a microscope to find them....they would be front page news.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Scripture does not say they were not her biological children, so does that mean the same for you, that you are (incorrectly) inferring that?
Stan B
Well-Known Member
That sounds like a prayer utilized by RCC in communicating with their goddess.
Grailhunter, >> "Find a Catholic document that calls Mary – Miriam a Goddess."
Each after it's own kind. What else would you call the Mother of God??
Actually, she places herself above God. She tells her priests to ignore God, and focus only on her:
"If they do no accustom themselves now to seek me alone, to listen to me alone, and entrust themselves to me alone, how are they going to find me at the moment of the great tempest, when everything will be plunged in darkness? Let them accustom themselves to see me as the light of their every action!" [To the Priests, Our Lady's Beloved Sons. page 47]
There are over 700 pages in this book, filled with the same kind of garbage.
Ignore God, Ignore Jesus, Ignore Bible, but cleave only onto her! This is totally Satanic!
But she is not the only dead person Catholics pray to. But this practice of course is not Christian, it is a pagan practice tossed into the face of God, who says HE detests those who invoke the dead"
Grailhunter, >> Ok I will play your game….was Christ detested or accursed when He called up Moses and Elijah? The Apostles Peter James and John witnesses this and would of recalled the sin of Saul when conjuring up Samuel….
The last I heard, Elijah never died, instead, he was caught up into Heaven; and as for Moses, Scripture has not revealed what happened to him, He just disappeared, and no one was ever to find his grave.
Grailhunter, >> Christ told His apostles that they had to eat his flesh and drink His blood….and if they did not, there would be no life in them and they would not abide in Him. Literal or symbolic, it smacks of a Pagan ritual and the Apostles reacted in kind….And Christ gave them no choice….Is Christ Pagan?…is He accursed?
Jesus said to do it in remembrance of Him. Lots of things we do in commemoration. But digging up someone's body to eat their flesh and drink their blood, sounds just tad sick to me.
Grailhunter, >> So you are a free-lance Christian that after 1500 years stands up and proclaims you are right and a Church that is arguably over 1500 years old, is wrong. How many Catholic martyrs died for their faith? How many Protestant martyrs?
The Catholic martyrs are an invisible blip, compared to the Roman Catholic slaughter of complete civilizations such as the Albigenses, Waldenses, Cathars, Huegenots, not to mention the Spanish Inquisition, etc.
Grailhunter >> We can trace over 30,000 interpretations of the scriptures to Protestant denominations….there is no agreement between Protestant Christians....just clusters of beliefs. And then there is free-lance Christians….millions. So at this point there is no standard interpretation. It is like nailing Jell-o to a wall.
What someone else believes is not necessarily what I believe. I follow God's promise, that "when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come." John 16:13
With His guidance, Scripture is all I need.
Grailhunter >> Deut 18:9…..Sorry I am not Jewish….Have you sold your daughters and granddaughters into concubinage yet?
No! I am very wealthy. I don't sell concubines, I buy them!
And how can this dead woman be the mother of the eternal God,
Grailhunter >> She is dead…..same as Martin Luther and as dead as you and I will be. But some of us will have eternal life….and the Mother of God…..might hold a different position….take it up with God.
A rather wild unsupportable fantasy. And if she hears prayers in Heaven, millions of them every day, what a horrible existence that would be. God must really despise her!
Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life?
Grailhunter >> So Christ did not have a Father? He is not the Son of God? Did Christ create the world? How many times did He conceive Him? Was He always known as the Son of God?.... If God the Holy Spirit and God the Son were in the Old Testament....you would not need a microscope to find them....they would be front page news.
Not news to anyone who has read the Bible!
You seem top have overlooked Melchizedek. When he came to Abraham, he identified himself as "Melchizedek" King/Prince of Salem, i.e "Prince of Peace".
"When Abraham was returning from a battle, Melchizedek went out to meet him in the King’s Valley. "And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine (which Jesus said to eat in remembrance of Him)" Gen 14
In the New Testament, the Apostle Paul reflects upon Melchizedek's encounter with Abraham (Genesis 14):
"For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham as he was returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him . . was first of all, by the translation of his name, King of Righteousness, and then also King of Salem, which is King of Peace. Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, he remains a priest perpetually". Hebrews 7:7
There are other alternatives -= see post #27
However the claim in the OP is that Mary had other children after Jesus. That is what has to be proved - not that she didn't. And no proof has been given, only claims based on (IMO) misreading of scripture.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
What someone else believes is not necessarily what I believe. I follow God's promise, that "when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come." John 16:13 With His guidance, Scripture is all I need.
Exactly, and free-lance or non-denominational Christian is not a negative term for me. To each his own and freedom of religion. In motion it almost seems to be set up that way ---when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, will guide you into all the truth--- And that is one of the mysteries of Christianity....a lot of different truths out there.....everyone is guided by God...the Holy Spirit....in different directions obviously. It is one of the reasons that the Jews would not believe unless God announced it from a mountain. One of the reasons they only took the prophets so seriously. The Jews were expecting Elijah to return in a fiery chariot to announce the Messiah. Because in their beliefs Elijah was senior to the messiah....they were expecting the messiah to be a human warlord king.....a warlord....not the Lord.
Miriam is not going to tell anyone focus on her alone
The last I heard, Elijah never died, instead, he was caught up into Heaven; and as for Moses, Scripture has not revealed what happened to him, He just disappeared, and no one was ever to find his grave.
Right, and as tradition goes Miriam was taken up into heaven also. Still the point stands
Jesus said to do it in remembrance of Him. Lots of things we do in commemoration. But digging up someone's body to eat their flesh and drink their blood, sounds just tad sick to me.
I would not expect you to do anything that Christ said. But His words are clear on this, so that is between you and Him.
A rather wild unsupportable fantasy. And if she hears prayers in Heaven, millions of them every day, what a horrible existence that would be. God must really despise her!
Ya, most religions turn God into a genie. Do you despise your mother?
Melchizedek" King/Prince of Salem, i.e "Prince of Peace".
King Melchizedek is very interesting....I think you will find that there are debates on who he was and where Salem was at.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
As far as if Miriam had other children after Yeshua, it is matter belief....not even debate material ....The scriptures keep Yeshua's history and family life a secret. There are other texts but, still that is a matter of belief. Other than the fact that He had siblings...that is all we know.
Is this a Vatican approved book?
I think not!
See - CATHOLIC DOORS MINISTRY present "THE INTERIOR LOCUTIONS OF FATHER STEFANO GOBBI."
Is It Catholic? - Father Stefano Gobbi
A quote:
The alleged interior locutions of Fr. Stefano Gobbi are riddled with so many doctrinal errors, false prophecies and deceptions that only a few extracts are being quoted from the book "To The Priests Our Lady's Beloved Sons" to clearly show that these writings are not divinely inspired as alleged, but rather, they are Fr. Stefano Gobbi's personal reflections. (If Fr. Gobbi wishes to maintain that the locutions are not his personal reflections, then it must be concluded that they are spiritual manifestation of a demonic nature because some of the locutions oppose the teachings of the Holy Catholic Church.)
But what is that to you. Anything anti-Catholic you can dredge up from any source is fuel for your anti-Catholic bigotry
101G
Well-Known Member
so we can take this that she "HAD" Sexual intercourse with her husband then, refering to post #98.
PICJAG.
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
"not until", in Greek, is "heos" which references the past, never the future. DENY, DENY, DENY is not any kind of response. Face it, 'Mary having other children' is a man made tradition invented in the 18th century by heretical liberals. None of the early reformers taught that garbage but you don't go after them.
Stan B
Well-Known Member
No!! The fact that Mary had other children, is a historical fact recorded many places in Scripture
101G
Well-Known Member
If they were Jesus' brothers they MUST have been Mary's children.
No it isn't There is not a single verse in scripture that says Mary had other children.
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