The Pillar and Ground of the Truth

[Giuliano]

I do not have a firm idea about what 1 Timothy 3:15 means, but it does seem clear that some Christians willing to ignore it. What does it mean to other people? What is the role of the church in matters of the truth?

1 Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

 

[Episkopos]

I do not have a firm idea about what 1 Timothy 3:15 means, but it does seem clear that some Christians willing to ignore it. What does it mean to other people? What is the role of the church in matters of the truth?

1 Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

I think nowadays the churches are happy to be the pillar and ground of "A" truth. Or they are purveyors of religious "facts."

But there is no power in these. The truth is alive in the person of Christ. If we don't have the living Christ in our midst then we are just a religious social club...with a very arrogant presumption of our own superiority. Can you say....hypocrites?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I do not have a firm idea about what 1 Timothy 3:15 means, but it does seem clear that some Christians willing to ignore it. What does it mean to other people? What is the role of the church in matters of the truth?

1 Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

do not (know)if it will help but was looking up last night “doeth” as it stood out in John 3:20-21 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. [21] But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

“...doeth evil”
“...doeth truth”
“...doeth” active, yea? Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

 

[VictoryinJesus]

If we don't have the living Christ in our midst

1 Corinthians 14:24-26 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: [25] And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth. [26] How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

 

[101G]

I do not have a firm idea about what 1 Timothy 3:15 means, but it does seem clear that some Christians willing to ignore it. What does it mean to other people? What is the role of the church in matters of the truth?

1 Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Good post, addressing the OP. in the natural, a pillar is a support of the building. and we as a Spiritual house is a structure with support. example, Revelation 3:12 "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name". to understand this, it's an allusion to something, an expression designed to call something to mind without mentioning it explicitly; an indirect or passing reference. here, a pillar is a defence for the structure of the Building, where it would not fall. in spiritual term a light to guide. as the apostle was with the Gospel.
Philippians 1:13 "So that my bonds in Christ are manifest in all the palace, and in all other places;
Philippians 1:14 "And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear.
Philippians 1:15 "Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
Philippians 1:16 "The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bondshilippians 1:17 "But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
Philippians 1:18 "What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

to understand this lets go to the OT, and get the meaning. and see who is the defense or the source of his strenght and who establish Paul in the Gospel.

Isaiah 52:1 "Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean". here Zion is mention as the holy city, and the name Zion means something.

Zion: H6726 צִיוֹן Tsiyown (tsee-yone') n/l.
1. (meaning) a monumental or guiding pillar.
2. (location) Tsiyon (Tsion, Sion, Zion, Tzion) (as a permanent capital), a mountain of Jerusalem.
[the same (regularly) as H6725]
KJV: Zion.
Root(s): H6725

For a guide is to show or indicate the way to others. as a guiding light, a source of strength for those who overcome, those who stand tall in the defence of the Way of God, their strength is in Christ Jesus who write his name on them. as did when the first temple was built. lets understand this.

1 Kings 7:18 "And he made the pillars, and two rows round about upon the one network, to cover the chapiters that were upon the top, with pomegranates: and so did he for the other chapiter.
1 Kings 7:19 "And the chapiters that were upon the top of the pillars were of lily work in the porch, four cubits.
1 Kings 7:20 "And the chapiters upon the two pillars had pomegranates also above, over against the belly which was by the network: and the pomegranates were two hundred in rows round about upon the other chapiter.
1 Kings 7:21 "And he set up the pillars in the porch of the temple: and he set up the right pillar, and called the name thereof Jachin: and he set up the left pillar, and called the name thereof Boaz.

the name Jachin, which signifies "he will establish", i.e. the house to which here was an entrance, so long as the pure worship of God should continue in it. Jesus is the DOOR or the WAY or the entrance to which is the WAY to Holiness.

and the name Boaz, which signifies "in him", or "it is strength", namely, in the Lord that dwelt there. These names were given by Solomon, which signified the pillar and ground of truth as of Christ himself, and the two natures in him. and of his royal dignity, signified by the crowns or chapiters on these pillars which in Revelation 3:12 he writes his name on them. (One should read for themselves, 1 Kings Chapter 7 the building of the temple). it shows how decorated these Pillars were, whose legs are as pillars of marble, and in whom are righteousness and strength; which is no small encouragement to those who are entering into the church of God, which the temple was a type of. who, should they fear, being feeble and weak, that they should never fail. 2 Peter 1:10 "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2 Peter 1:11 "For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 1:12 "Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

in these pillars, stood Jachin, to let them know the Lord will establish and settle them. Boaz to direct them to Christ, in whom their strength lies, so these pillars are an Allusion to the Lord Jesus who dwell in us by his Spirit. and we are "Rooted" and Grounded in Him.

I hope this helped.

PICJAG.

 

[marks]

I do not have a firm idea about what 1 Timothy 3:15 means, but it does seem clear that some Christians willing to ignore it. What does it mean to other people? What is the role of the church in matters of the truth?

1 Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Just thinking out loud here . . .

Pillar and foundation of the truth . . .

1 Corinthians 3
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

The true church is build with truth upon Jesus Who is the Truth.

Much love!

 

[Helen]

I do not have a firm idea about what 1 Timothy 3:15 means, but it does seem clear that some Christians willing to ignore it. What does it mean to other people? What is the role of the church in matters of the truth?

1 Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Hi Kerry

Good question.
We know that The House and The Church are His own people ....

The Church does have the truth...because He is our Head , therefore our wisdom, collectively we have truth.

I liked 101G 's post ..showing the likenesses...


...I just know that He is the One true Pillar and He is The Truth.
The foundation of the Church.
As He is, we are...we only are because He is.

Bottom line...I find it a hard question and I have never thought about it before in any depth. :)

 

[Windmill Charge]

I do not have a firm idea about what 1 Timothy 3:15 means, but it does seem clear that some Christians willing to ignore it. What does it mean to other people? What is the role of the church in matters of the truth?

1 Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Paul has been giving instructions to Timothy, about leading the church, the assemble of God's people in that town.
That assemble is the church, the Piller and ground of truth.

It is a fancy way of saying see that they behave themselves.

 

[Enoch111]

What is the role of the church in matters of the truth?

While that Scripture appears to be speaking about a local church, it is really a reference to the Church which is the Body of Christ, as well as the Bride and Building of Christ. So the focus here is on the metaphorical and spiritual Building of Christ (also called the Temple of the living God).

THE CHURCH OF THE LIVING GOD (THE HOUSE OF GOD)
This can only mean those who are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and the living God: And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. (2 Cor 6:16)

Since every local church will consist of both wheat and tares, sheep and goats, this does not apply to the tares and goats. Only the wheat and sheep.

THE PILLAR AND GROUND (FOUNDATION) OF TRUTH
The Church of the living God includes the apostles and prophets (the pillars) and Christ Himself as the sole Foundation or "ground" of the Church. So here we have a reference to the entire spiritual structure of the Church, where Christ is the Head, the Cornerstone, as well as the Foundation. The apostles and prophets are the metaphorical pillars supporting the Church through the truth of the Gospel, and every genuine believer as a part of the total structure.

Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. (Eph 2:19-22)

 

[Enow]

I do not have a firm idea about what 1 Timothy 3:15 means, but it does seem clear that some Christians willing to ignore it. What does it mean to other people? What is the role of the church in matters of the truth?

1 Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Reading how that chapter began with discussing the requirement for the office of a bishop, I believe Paul was just alluding to himself in how the church knows how he conducted himself in their assembly and so they ought to discern and choose a bishop by those requirements.

 

[Giuliano]

I think nowadays the churches are happy to be the pillar and ground of "A" truth. Or they are purveyors of religious "facts."

But there is no power in these. The truth is alive in the person of Christ. If we don't have the living Christ in our midst then we are just a religious social club...with a very arrogant presumption of our own superiority. Can you say....hypocrites?

Your remarks remind of another passage about people having a form of godliness but denying the power. I think we probably agree that good doctrines produce good results -- and if we have the truth, it shows up in our lives since the truth was given to set us free.

 

[Giuliano]

do not (know)if it will help but was looking up last night “doeth” as it stood out in John 3:20-21 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. [21] But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

“...doeth evil”
“...doeth truth”
“...doeth” active, yea? Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

What do you think "hold the truth in unrighteousness" means? Again I have an opinion, but I find Paul hard to understand. Does it mean having part of the truth and telling the truth for a bad purpose? Doeg told the truth to Saul about David.

 

[Giuliano]

Good post, addressing the OP. in the natural, a pillar is a support of the building. and we as a Spiritual house is a structure with support. example, Revelation 3:12 "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name". to understand this, it's an allusion to something, an expression designed to call something to mind without mentioning it explicitly; an indirect or passing reference. here, a pillar is a defence for the structure of the Building, where it would not fall. in spiritual term a light to guide. as the apostle was with the Gospel.
Philippians 1:13 "So that my bonds in Christ are manifest in all the palace, and in all other places;
Philippians 1:14 "And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear.
Philippians 1:15 "Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
Philippians 1:16 "The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bondshilippians 1:17 "But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
Philippians 1:18 "What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

to understand this lets go to the OT, and get the meaning. and see who is the defense or the source of his strenght and who establish Paul in the Gospel.

Isaiah 52:1 "Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean". here Zion is mention as the holy city, and the name Zion means something.

Zion: H6726 צִיוֹן Tsiyown (tsee-yone') n/l.
1. (meaning) a monumental or guiding pillar.
2. (location) Tsiyon (Tsion, Sion, Zion, Tzion) (as a permanent capital), a mountain of Jerusalem.
[the same (regularly) as H6725]
KJV: Zion.
Root(s): H6725

For a guide is to show or indicate the way to others. as a guiding light, a source of strength for those who overcome, those who stand tall in the defence of the Way of God, their strength is in Christ Jesus who write his name on them. as did when the first temple was built. lets understand this.

1 Kings 7:18 "And he made the pillars, and two rows round about upon the one network, to cover the chapiters that were upon the top, with pomegranates: and so did he for the other chapiter.
1 Kings 7:19 "And the chapiters that were upon the top of the pillars were of lily work in the porch, four cubits.
1 Kings 7:20 "And the chapiters upon the two pillars had pomegranates also above, over against the belly which was by the network: and the pomegranates were two hundred in rows round about upon the other chapiter.
1 Kings 7:21 "And he set up the pillars in the porch of the temple: and he set up the right pillar, and called the name thereof Jachin: and he set up the left pillar, and called the name thereof Boaz.

the name Jachin, which signifies "he will establish", i.e. the house to which here was an entrance, so long as the pure worship of God should continue in it. Jesus is the DOOR or the WAY or the entrance to which is the WAY to Holiness.

and the name Boaz, which signifies "in him", or "it is strength", namely, in the Lord that dwelt there. These names were given by Solomon, which signified the pillar and ground of truth as of Christ himself, and the two natures in him. and of his royal dignity, signified by the crowns or chapiters on these pillars which in Revelation 3:12 he writes his name on them. (One should read for themselves, 1 Kings Chapter 7 the building of the temple). it shows how decorated these Pillars were, whose legs are as pillars of marble, and in whom are righteousness and strength; which is no small encouragement to those who are entering into the church of God, which the temple was a type of. who, should they fear, being feeble and weak, that they should never fail. 2 Peter 1:10 "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2 Peter 1:11 "For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 1:12 "Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

in these pillars, stood Jachin, to let them know the Lord will establish and settle them. Boaz to direct them to Christ, in whom their strength lies, so these pillars are an Allusion to the Lord Jesus who dwell in us by his Spirit. and we are "Rooted" and Grounded in Him.

I hope this helped.

PICJAG.

Does this mean we should question ourselves, perhaps even doubt ourselves, if we find ourselves disagreeing with "the church"?

 

[Giuliano]

Just thinking out loud here . . .

Pillar and foundation of the truth . . .

1 Corinthians 3
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

The true church is build with truth upon Jesus Who is the Truth.

Much love!

I agree; but I ask then how do we determine who is part of the true church?

 

[Giuliano]

The Church does have the truth...because He is our Head , therefore our wisdom, collectively we have truth.

I agree with you too that the truth is collective not individual. That means we should assume that we are always right about everything as individuals. Yet I believe sometimes a church can go astray so far that we should doubt it still possesses the truth. Where does that line get drawn? It seems so hard to discern.

 

[Giuliano]

Paul has been giving instructions to Timothy, about leading the church, the assemble of God's people in that town.
That assemble is the church, the Piller and ground of truth.

It is a fancy way of saying see that they behave themselves.

What role does the Bible play in this? Many people believe the Bible is the sole source of truth.

 

[Giuliano]

Reading how that chapter began with discussing the requirement for the office of a bishop, I believe Paul was just alluding to himself in how the church knows how he conducted himself in their assembly and so they ought to discern and choose a bishop by those requirements.

It may have something to do with that, but why call the church that?

 

[marks]

I agree; but I ask then how do we determine who is part of the true church?

I just try to build everyone!

Either they don't know Jesus, and I can work towards their entering the kingdom, or they do know Jesus, and I can work towards establishing them in the kingdom.

Someone who claims to know Christ, I don't dispute with them over whether that is true or not, but try to impart the full message of Scripture just the same, so they can determine for themselves whether they are really part of God's kingdom or not.

Much love!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

What do you think "hold the truth in unrighteousness" means? Again I have an opinion, but I find Paul hard to understand. Does it mean having part of the truth and telling the truth for a bad purpose? Doeg told the truth to Saul about David.

not coming to the light that the body of sin can be destroyed. (imo)

 

[Giuliano]

I just try to build everyone!

Either they don't know Jesus, and I can work towards their entering the kingdom, or they do know Jesus, and I can work towards establishing them in the kingdom.

Someone who claims to know Christ, I don't dispute with them over whether that is true or not, but try to impart the full message of Scripture just the same, so they can determine for themselves whether they are really part of God's kingdom or not.

Much love!

Who should we believe then? If the church is the pillar and foundation of the truth, don't we need to have a way of finding out who we should believe when they tell us something? If the minister drinks too much or beats his wife, should we look at him as someone who can be counted on to give us truth?