historyb
Well-Known Member
All the time, there is not just one example. Merely by rejecting historical Christianity and replacing it with your brand of Christianity is enough.
(Refuting) The (Original Sin) Doctrine!!
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All the time, there is not just one example. Merely by rejecting historical Christianity and replacing it with your brand of Christianity is enough.
Interesting how you can give an accusation when you have absolutely NOTHING to substantiate it with. When I was at the age that most children could read, I was reading scripture and my parents where Christians. By the time I was in the 3rd grade I was talking to my peers about Isaiah 11. The only context of paganism that I knew as a young child was that God made himself known to the Israelites and many of them turned to idolatry instead, following thus what would be paganism.
You should only discount me if my belief doesn't equate to what is the given Gospel.
Hi Davy,
YOU:You cannot only dwell on the ways the word 'soul' is used in God's Word, because it is also used to point to the 'person', or individual. It is the seat of our emotions, our person. And that is retained even after death of our flesh body.
ME: First off you said that God created soul and spirit together. So I am still unclear, you just spoke about the soul, but what about the spirit, could you define that for me?
Second, what you said doesn't make sense to me. You are saying that I cannot only dwell on the ways the word 'soul' is used in God's Word, because it is also used to point to the 'person', or individual.
it is also used where? you make it sound like we are to define the word 'soul' from somewhere other than from God's Word, as you said I cannot "only dwell on the ways the word 'soul' is used in God's Word". So where else are YOU also dwelling the meaning of the word soul on?
When you said "it is also used to point to the 'person', or individual" I AGREE, as that is also directly how God's word shows it to mean.
Your soul is your life, as in your own individual life. Your spirit/mind dictates your individual life/soul. If I am of a humble spirit/mind my personal life/soul would be a life that is lived humbly.
Proverbs 14:29 He that is slow to wrath is of great understanding: but he that is hasty of spirit exalteth folly.
Proverbs 16: 18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
Proverbs 16:19 Better it is to be of an humble spirit with the lowly, than to divide the spoil with the proud.
Psalms 35:9 And my soul shall be joyful in the LORD: it shall rejoice in his salvation.
Psalms 35:13 But as for me, when they were sick, my clothing was sackcloth: I humbled my soul with fasting; and my prayer returned into mine own bosom.
Proverbs 13:4 The soul of the sluggard desireth, and hath nothing: but the soul of the diligent shall be made fat
The above are just a few examples where we see soul and spirit reflect feelings, state of mind, and behavior.
Now change the word soul or spirit above to the word life, you'll see it fits pretty well especially with the passages that have the word soul in it, as the word nephesh is translated to both soul and life throughout the OT. The kind of life that you live the kind of person that you are is according to your feelings, thoughts, state of mind, and behavior, which those makeup your human spirit.
In the NT you see the word Psuche translated as both soul and life, where they mean the same thing.
Jesus says the soul is something that you lose, so it is not something that is immortal. You lose your soul/life and in the resurrection you find it again. This is consistent with OT prophet David, his soul/life was going to the grave where he would become dust, "Let the enemy persecute my soul, and take it; yea, let him tread down my life upon the earth, and lay mine honour in the dust." David died in hope that his soul/life would not be left in the grave, and he said that his flesh would rest in hope. We are told in Acts that David is DEAD, not that he has a conscious soul dwelling somewhere.
1 Samuel 2:6 The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up.
John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the GRAVES shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
A man can kill you but it is God who has the power over your life/soul to raise it up again. God has power to keep your life/soul in the grave, eternal destruction, PERISHED forever, as our God is an eternal consuming fire, so we should fear Him not man.
YOU:You cannot only dwell on the ways the word 'soul' is used in God's Word, because it is also used to point to the 'person', or individual. It is the seat of our emotions, our person. And that is retained even after death of our flesh body.
ME: First off you said that God created soul and spirit together. So I am still unclear, you just spoke about the soul, but what about the spirit, could you define that for me?
Second, what you said doesn't make sense to me. You are saying that I cannot only dwell on the ways the word 'soul' is used in God's Word, because it is also used to point to the 'person', or individual.
it is also used where? you make it sound like we are to define the word 'soul' from somewhere other than from God's Word, as you said I cannot "only dwell on the ways the word 'soul' is used in God's Word". So where else are YOU also dwelling the meaning of the word soul on?
When you said "it is also used to point to the 'person', or individual" I AGREE, as that is also directly how God's word shows it to mean.
Your soul is your life, as in your own individual life. Your spirit/mind dictates your individual life/soul. If I am of a humble spirit/mind my personal life/soul would be a life that is lived humbly.
Proverbs 14:29 He that is slow to wrath is of great understanding: but he that is hasty of spirit exalteth folly.
Proverbs 16: 18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
Proverbs 16:19 Better it is to be of an humble spirit with the lowly, than to divide the spoil with the proud.
Psalms 35:9 And my soul shall be joyful in the LORD: it shall rejoice in his salvation.
Psalms 35:13 But as for me, when they were sick, my clothing was sackcloth: I humbled my soul with fasting; and my prayer returned into mine own bosom.
Proverbs 13:4 The soul of the sluggard desireth, and hath nothing: but the soul of the diligent shall be made fat
The above are just a few examples where we see soul and spirit reflect feelings, state of mind, and behavior.
Now change the word soul or spirit above to the word life, you'll see it fits pretty well especially with the passages that have the word soul in it, as the word nephesh is translated to both soul and life throughout the OT. The kind of life that you live the kind of person that you are is according to your feelings, thoughts, state of mind, and behavior, which those makeup your human spirit.
In the NT you see the word Psuche translated as both soul and life, where they mean the same thing.
Jesus says the soul is something that you lose, so it is not something that is immortal. You lose your soul/life and in the resurrection you find it again. This is consistent with OT prophet David, his soul/life was going to the grave where he would become dust, "Let the enemy persecute my soul, and take it; yea, let him tread down my life upon the earth, and lay mine honour in the dust." David died in hope that his soul/life would not be left in the grave, and he said that his flesh would rest in hope. We are told in Acts that David is DEAD, not that he has a conscious soul dwelling somewhere.
1 Samuel 2:6 The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up.
John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the GRAVES shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
A man can kill you but it is God who has the power over your life/soul to raise it up again. God has power to keep your life/soul in the grave, eternal destruction, PERISHED forever, as our God is an eternal consuming fire, so we should fear Him not man.
what is my brand of Christianity ? i would like to know, i mean actually i think i have a pretty simple way.. jesus way truth life you must be born again. who soever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved . the blood washes our sins away .we all come by the way of the cross . so please feel free to elaborate what my brand of Christianity is. personally i think your grasping at straws
historyb
Well-Known Member
I discount anything that does not line up with the Ancient Church, anyone can make the Gospels to say what they want about the Gospel.
historyb
Well-Known Member
Not really like many here your basically evangelical because you reject the historic Church for your own way.
Davy
Well-Known Member
I only refer to Matthew 10:28 usage of the word "soul" (Greek psuche = breath). I don't need to do a dance around the Matt.10:28 Scripture like you're trying to do.
Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
KJV
Either one believes what Jesus said there, or they don't. You apparently do not.
The "spirit" of Eccl.12:5-7 that goes back to God at flesh death MUST include the "soul" that Jesus spoke of in the Matthew 10:28 verse. It is why the 'souls' under the altar in Revelation 6 were able to ask God how long. In 2 Corinthians 5, Apostle Paul revealed that if our earthly house is destroyed, then we have a building of God, eternal in the heavens. That means right now, not sometime in the future.
I'm amazed at how some cannot understand the difference between flesh and spirit. They are two separate dimensions.
You aren't even able to answer your own question, that. No wonder that doesn't make sense to you.
And now you are the one trying to say I've left God's Word when I have not, which is you bearing false witness, (something 'you people' love to do obviously, trying to make something so that isn't.)
Listen you white-washed wall, you desire to use the Genesis 2:7 verse as a definition for the word 'soul' while TOTALLY DISREGARDING what Jesus Himself showed about the 'soul' in Matthew 10:28!!!
But Jesus in Matthew 10:28 showed WHAT about the "soul"? He showed it was NOT killed when the flesh body is killed! Where does it go then? And IF you say it just goes back to God as some animating force, and not as individual, then you will be going outside of God's Word on the subject.
Now you are going outside God's Word, the very thing you have accused me of!
The "soul" of Matthew 10:28, which is the Greek word psuche meaning 'breath', man says only means the "animal sentient principle only" (Strong's no.5594); whereas Greek pneuma (also breath) is defined as a spirit, the rational soul, vital principle, etc. (Strong's no. 4154). Obviously even a lot scholars are confused as to what the difference between soul and spirit is.
In John 3:6 Jesus said that which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit. It is our 'spirit' that is "born again" He showed there. And He said that while making a clear distinction between flesh and spirit. So what's your problem? Why can't you listen to our Lord Jesus in His Word? It is NOT our flesh that is "born again".
John 3:8
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
KJV
Now when our flesh body dies, if our spirit WITH soul does not continue on, then that would mean there is no Salvation through Christ, nothing "born again" of The Spirit. If our soul with spirit is tied to flesh at flesh death, then it would mean our spirit/soul also dies with our flesh body!!! That is NOT... what God's Word teaches!!! It instead is what the blind Pharisees teach! And many of them are foreigner Canaanites that crept in among Israel centuries ago!
historyb
Well-Known Member
That is a blatant lie. I do not now nor have I ever rejected Scriptures, what I do reject is your heretical to outright pagan blasphemous view of Christian Scriptures.
ok it was you who said you didnt use scriptures. theme is pretty strong words for
historyb
Well-Known Member
ok it was you who said you didnt use scriptures. theme is pretty strong words formember
No I said I don't use just Scripture alone. Those words I used don't feel good do they? Then don't lie about someone else and say completely false things.
historyb
Well-Known Member
Did I say that! Really are you that ignorant? My point is your idea of Scripture is completely wrong and I don't have to share your ideas to trust Scripture. Honestly there are some extremely dense people here
I approach this subject from two aspects. Man is born out of communion with God. Out of communion means rebellion ie sin.
Children of believers are regarded as Holy, sanctified and worthy of heaven.
14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
1 cor 7:14
9 And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
Rom 8:9
John the Baptist alone was born full of the Holy Spirit.
If one believes in original sin that keeps a believer impure, then we can never be temples of the Holy Spirit, pure and holy, and never be asked or encouraged to live a pure holy life.
The apostles clearly believed in themselves this was what they were doing, cleansed and purified through faith, repentance and their walk. They specifically wrote this, though believers who live in unbelief are simply unable to accept this truth, so change the words to mean Jesus makes them Holy and God only sees Jesus's Holiness, and when Holy is spoken of it is a summary from Jesus's Holiness covering over the sinful failed flesh and life of the believer. But this is clearly not the case listening to Paul and his desire for the disciples he is leading
14 Do everything without complaining or arguing,
15 so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe
16 as you hold out the word of life--in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing.
Phil 2:14-16
Learning to know what this means and how it works is part of our transformation in Christ.
historyb
Well-Known Member
Jodi claims that the Soul is the seat of emotions ? that is totally wrong ! that's clearly an Atheist point of view of such.
The Soul is always clear, but the attempt to get in touch with it is another thing, due to temptations of the worldly influences.
Man has a rational Soul.
I have never heard of a irrational Soul in fact, where does it say such in the Bible.
Ones Soul can not be damaged, but one can be out of touch with it.
One clams to be something that they are not, such is devoid of the Soul, lets say one claiming to be a girl when they are in fact a boy, this shows detachment and a Satanic possession of the mind. they are denying who they are in fact, such is much just like as the mental capacity has lost touch with the Soul. such is called possessed, they have a demon controlling them.
One could ask who is guiding you ! so who is it that gives one comprehension to Jesus truly ? look to Nathaniel as to why as Jesus said about him and the same of Peter.
It's not of ones self but the soul that identify such.
One must be worthy of ones Soul to truly know Jesus is the Christ. other than that the mind finds it can not fathom because of it's carnal content.
If back in the day if the majority of Jews were in touch with their Soul they would of known who Jesus truly was, now Nathaniel knew directly ? and Jesus said that he was a true Israelite ! and the only one that Jesus ever said that of and not to mention all the rest that he said of Nathaniel and boy that is fantastic, what Jesus said that he would see. it's the greatest point in the whole Bible and people miss it. what did Jesus say that Nathaniel would see, go look it up ! :)
Davy
Well-Known Member
The concept I've been trying to explain is much more to the nuts' and' bolts of the operation in God's creation regarding the two separate dimensions of existence. This is a matter many brethren skirt away from, and I think it's from their being wrongly taught that our 'soul' is a flesh thing, when it is not. This is why when our flesh dies, there is no more evidence of personality or emotions manifesting with it, which are products of our soul which is our real person. That part continues after flesh death simply because the soul is not made of flesh; it is made of that invisible dimension from God Who made material creation. As Apostle Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15:42-46 that as we have borne the "image of the earthy", we shall also bear the "image of the heavenly"; and by that meaning the outward image body of that other dimension which is invisible today.
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