The Influence of Islam on Christendom

[bbyrd009]

I do not stand with them, like they who killed Jesus.

I will call them out for what game plays they do.

hmm

 

[brakelite]

I agree. Epi agrees. The church should never have adopted and should not continue. Which puzzles me as to what your argument might be (aside from an objection to epi's simplified and inexhaustive outline...?)

I may not disagree with his conclusions, I just think the focus on Islam is somewhat misguided. As I said to him, the parallels and comparisons between Catholicism and Islam are strikingly similar, in both policy and practice, at least during the Middle ages. The confusion arises when asking which came first and from whence did those policies originate. Episode suggested that the church inherited or copied them from Islam...I merely suggested that the church inherited them from pagan Rome... That pesky little horn of the papacy growing out of the Roman beast... And that it was Rome perhaps that have rise to Islam. Not the other way round.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Psh! Men inherit and adopt ways from whoever their father is.
You are stubbornly not seeing the man's point, focus and direction with the thread.

He wasn't attempting to prove who the mother of all harlots is, or was. I think his point was more to wake up the harlots.

 

[ReChoired]

I may not disagree with his conclusions, I just think the focus on Islam is somewhat misguided. As I said to him, the parallels and comparisons between Catholicism and Islam are strikingly similar, in both policy and practice...

Romanism
&
Islamism

Romanism - Must be read in the offiically recognized Latin
Islamism - Must be read in the offiically recognized Arabic

Romanism - Main Country is Italy, a Peninsula facing to the West
Islamism - Main Country is Arabia, a Peninsula facing to the East

Romanism - Sunday worship, first day of the week - Catechism of the Catholic Church - The third commandment
Islamism - Friday worship, sixth day of the week - Al Jumu'ah 62:9-10

Romanism - Sun/moon monstrance in which the 'eucharist/host' is kept
Islamism - Moon/Sun/or star symbol

Romanism - 8 pointed star being a symbol of RC 'Mary'
Islamism - 8 pointed star in Islam

Romanism - Jerome's corrupted Vulgate [corrupted the true vulgate, the Italic], corrupted Sinaiticus, Vaticanus
Islamism - Abu al Qasim's corrupted qur'an [corrupted with gnostic, talmudic, sources, etc]

Romanism - Creeds, so-called 'church fathers', papal bulls, encyclicals, briefs, etc.
Islamism - aHadiths, Sunnah, Tafsirs, Sharia [Islamic laws]

Romanism - [Roman] Canon Law [natural law]
Islamism - Sharia [Islamic law]

Romanism - a combined Religion/State power
Islamism - a combined State/Religion power

Romanism - RC 'Mary' highly exalted to co-Mediatrix, hyper-dulia, etc and Immaculate conception dogma
Islamism - Islamic 'Mary', see qur'an Maryam 19, and aHadith in which 'Mary' is 'not touched by satan'

Romanism - gnostic connections, Shepherdof Hermas, Thomasine, Judasine, etc
Islamism - gnostic connections, Barnabas, etc. baby 'Isa' speaks from under the womb, and cradle, and makes clay birds come to life, etc

Romanism - continuing 'Mass', the unbloody sacrifice
Islamism - continuing bloody animal sacrifices

Romanism - no victory over sin, the Auricular confessional, penances, etc [works salvation, fasting, rosaries, etc]
Islamism - no victory over sin, works salvation, the as-salat, wudu, fasting, pilgrimaages, etc

Romanism - War - Crusades, Inquisition - aka Office/Curia of Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
Islamism - War - Jihad, a qur'an Al Tawbah or Bara'ah 9:5,29, etc

Romanism - Vatican, Ultramontanism, all power in one man, popery
Islamism - Caliphate, all power in one man, Mahdi, etc. a qur'an Al Nisa' 4:65, Al Ahzab 33:36

Romanism - Pope's sayings, councils sayings, traditions of men
Islamism - Muhammad's sayings [aHadith], traditions of men

Romanism - another Intercessor, RC 'Mary', the co-Mediatrix, co-Redemptrix, Popes, Priests, 'Saints', etc
Islamism - Abu al Qasim

Romanism - Important women, RC 'Mary', 'Fatima' [city, so-called miracle site]
Islamism - Important women, Islamic 'Mary', Maraym 19, Fatimah the daughter of Abu al Qasim [Muhammad]

Romanism - monkery, monasticism, etc
Islamism - Khadija, Waraq bin Naufal, Nestor [Baeira, Pakhyras, Sergius the monk] see Hayatu'l-Qulub' by Abu Talib, or Al-Asbahani, Dala'il al-Nubuwah 1:173, or see the Jami' al-Tawarikh by Rashid al-Din Hamadani published in Tabriz, Persia, or see Ibn Hisham, Ibn Sa'd al-Baghdadi, or Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari, or even just plain old Yusuf Ali notations on Baeira.

Romanism - Pilgrimmages to Fatima, Lourdes, Vatican, Guadalupe, etc
Islamism - Pilgrimmages, the greater and lesser hajj to Mecca, Medina, Jerusalem, Ka'bam, etc.

Romanism - state of the dead - immortal soul/spirit theology, same as pagans, occult
Islamism - state of the dead - immortal soul/spirit theology, same as pagans, occult

Romanism - purgatory, limbo, etc
Islamism - Barzakh, a waiting place on the other side of the as-sirat bridge, until judgment day

Romanism - Eternal torments in hellfire/lake of fire, a never-ending, always increasing torment
Islamism - Eternal torments [especially for women, as they are the ones to fill hell mostly] in a hellfire/lake of fire, always increasing, never-ending, in Islam there are 7 levels of Hell [Jahannam; Jahim, Jahannam, Sa'ir, Saqar, Ladha, Hawiyah, Hutamah]

Romanism - Nuns/Habits/Monks/Cloistered
Islamism - Hijab, Burkha, women cannot work, must stay in the house in a single room [a few exceptions], etc.

Romanism - special exorcists
Islamism - special exorcists, called the ruqyah; al-Tibb al-Nabawi

Romanism - beads, 'the Rosary', the vain repetitious prayers, also monk chants, breath prayers, desert 'fathers' mysticism, etc, to deaden the mind, allowing more access to the voice of satan:

"...as though they were listening to the very voice of the Blessed Mother explaining the mysteries and conversing with them at length..." [ON THE ROSARY; MAGNAE DEI MATRIS; Encyclical of Pope Leo XIII promulgated on September 8, 1892.]​

Islamism - beads, the Misbah, Tasbih, Sibha, having the same effect to deaden the mind, allowing more access to the voice of satan

Romanism - Cantor, Intonation, Gregorian Chants
Islamism - Muslim chants, qur'anic intonation [which means recitation]

Romanism - earthly sanctuary at the Vatican, the Mass in Rome
Islamism - earthly sanctuary, the Ka'baa in Mecca

Romanism - Indulgences, forgiveness of sins, kiising pope's feet, etc
Islamism - sins forgiven by 'good' [meaning Islamic] deeds, which wipe out 'bad' [means Islamic] deeds, kissing the idolatrous black stone inside the Yoni corner.

Romanism - Washings for the Mass, with specifications, etc
Islamism - Wudu, religious washings, with specifications, etc

Romanism - claim earthly Jerusalem [a forever desolate city] for Catholicism
Islamism - claim earthly Jerusalem [a forever desolate city] for Islamism

Romanism - Captial - Rome, the self-styled and so-called 'eternal city'
Islamism - Captial - Mecca

Romanism - false understanding of angels, Michael, Gabriel and other numerous named angels in their sources, sandalfon, metatron, salthiel, saraquel, raphael, etc.
Islamism - false understanding of angels, Michael, Gabriel and other numerous named angels in their sources, Israfel, etc.​

Romanism - Visionaries - Ignatius Loyola, etc [in a Cave]
Islamism - Visionaries - Abu al Qasim [in a Cave, Hira]

Romanism - private killer assassins, political rebellion creators, the Jesuits, Dominicans, Opus Dei, etc
Islamism - Hashashins [assassins]

Romanism - Religious Calendar - Lent, Easter, etc, etc.
Islamism - Religious Calendar - Ramadan, etc, etc.

Romanism - pagan practices accepted or taken over and 'baptized', all-saints day, equinoxes, etc
Islamism - pagan practices, circling the Ka'baa, throwing stones at the shaytan, etc.

Romanism - unscriptural food and drink allowances and forbidances [Leviticus 11; Deuteronomy 14; Acts 15; 1 Timothy 4:3 KJB]
Islamism - unscriptural food and drink allowances and forbidances, under Abu al Qasim's Halal and Haram [and Makrooh]

Romanism - etc. add your own
Islamism - etc. add your own​

The two are mirrored of each other, a yin and yang, a so-called 'light' and 'dark', both in great error, yet the one [Islam] came out of the other, an attempt at an early eccumenical [Mecci] endeavor, that failed [Medini].

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I would be more focused on oholah and oholibah as the RCC and protestantism. Two sisters who both played the whore.

And protestantism as the immoral woman who says, come eat, stolen food tastes better.

 

[brakelite]

I would be more focused on oholah and oholibah as the RCC and protestantism. Two sisters who both played the whore.

You could take that further to the NT with reference to the first beast (RCC) In Revelation13 and the second beast (American Protestantism) of the same chapter.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Interesting.

 

[brakelite]

I would be more focused on oholah and oholibah as the RCC and protestantism. Two sisters who both played the whore.

And protestantism as the immoral woman who says, come eat, stolen food tastes better.

Although historically and prophetically it would be more accurate to describe the two entities as mother and her harlot daughters.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yes, maybe...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I see the strong delusion as where we are right now. And if you take the microcosm of this forum, you can see how bridled anger may soon become unbridled anger in a repeat of history.

 

[Episkopos]

Some people may think that a totalitarian outlook (convert and be like us or die) was inevitable for Christendom...that somehow the narrative of the bible implies this. And a certain argument can indeed be brought forth that at times the scriptures would seem to support such a worldview. But this is just one more test of our sense of responsibility from God. Do we have one? Given a seeming bias towards self-preservation...will we go all in? Will we abandon all the wisdom of the bible to go after what we prefer in the flesh?

In a totalitarian model...we push the responsibility for good in the world on others. As in..."the world is evil because they don't convert and become like us."

So then we become totalitarian by NOT taking responsibility for the condition of the world ourselves. We claim we are saved. We wash our hands of all responsibility and claim we are pure. Whereas we are not. We are in truth only held to any level of purity by the sacrifice of Jesus. We can't take credit for that...although that is what we end up doing by circumventing the responsibilities inherent in our calling.


We show that we are a light in the world BECAUSE we take responsibility for the world. We obviate being a light in the world by not taking responsibility.

So then with the calling in Christ comes the responsibility to BE the light.

But the modern church doesn't do this. We blame others. We end up acting like Cain rather than Abel. We sacrifice others rather than ourselves. And we do that to satisfy a need for righteousness even if that is revealed to actually be a self-righteousness. Our own sense of fairness takes us that far.

We have chosen our own freedom over what gives freedom to the whole world. We have refused to sacrifice ourselves for others. So in this way we are the antithesis of Christ-like.

 

[brakelite]

There is within the Constitution of the US the inherent idea that all are free. Where did this come from if not the Bible? Yet it took several hundred years for the Protestant m movement to fully embrace it.. We can thank that fella who established the colony on Rhode island for much of that... And the straight church opposed him. But the Constitution demands freedom not just for me, but also demands I offer freedom to others. Even my enemies... And this was written at a time of intense Catholic Protestant antipathy. So for a Protestant nation to offer Catholicism the freedom to enter and practice within their own border with the same freedom they exercised for themselves showed the tremendous advance of true religious freedom. Even in the face of those Catholics who admitted that while protestants were in power, they, the Catholics, would take full advantage of the freedom offered, but should they ever gain power, they would not offer protestants that same privilege/right. That totalitarian mindset was too ingrained within Catholicism to see freedoms real value.

 

[brakelite]

It's ironic that the current ecumenism movement is at its core, totalitarian, as you describe it epi, become like us or (eventually) die. One can understand why unity can be such an enemy to freedom... And why modern Babylon is an ideological attempt to rebuild Babel... To put together under a guise of uniting "in a common faith" what God divided.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

We show that we are a light in the world BECAUSE we take responsibility for the world.

John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

...the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

And again, John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
^even born from above ...came down from heaven above.

...the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. considered for the longest time the verses of “he who deals his bread out to the hungry” and the warnings of: I was hungry and you gave me no bread. I was thirsty and you gave me no water to drink. Seems important in something the Sons of God do, from those who don’t. kept asking...how can you give bread to the hungry when you don’t know what the bread is? what is the bread to be given? ...the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Can deny it but He said Luke 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

so why do so many condemn the world instead of “I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”?

 

[brakelite]

why do so many condemn the world instead of “I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”?

Because the love of many waxes cold.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Some people may think that a totalitarian outlook (convert and be like us or die) was inevitable for Christendom...that somehow the narrative of the bible implies this. And a certain argument can indeed be brought forth that at times the scriptures would seem to support such a worldview. But this is just one more test of our sense of responsibility from God. Do we have one? Given a seeming bias towards self-preservation...will we go all in? Will we abandon all the wisdom of the bible to go after what we prefer in the flesh?

In a totalitarian model...we push the responsibility for good in the world on others. As in..."the world is evil because they don't convert and become like us."

So then we become totalitarian by NOT taking responsibility for the condition of the world ourselves. We claim we are saved. We wash our hands of all responsibility and claim we are pure. Whereas we are not. We are in truth only held to any level of purity by the sacrifice of Jesus. We can't take credit for that...although that is what we end up doing by circumventing the responsibilities inherent in our calling.


We show that we are a light in the world BECAUSE we take responsibility for the world. We obviate being a light in the world by not taking responsibility.

So then with the calling in Christ comes the responsibility to BE the light.

But the modern church doesn't do this. We blame others. We end up acting like Cain rather than Abel. We sacrifice others rather than ourselves. And we do that to satisfy a need for righteousness even if that is revealed to actually be a self-righteousness. Our own sense of fairness takes us that far.

We have chosen our own freedom over what gives freedom to the whole world. We have refused to sacrifice ourselves for others. So in this way we are the antithesis of Christ-like.

Guidance I would say is the Christian way, you follow or you are on the path that leads all astray.
Democracy can be mob rule. Jesus never said anything about democracy, democracy has always failed, because the rot set in. so it's not the foundation Stone.

When talking to Moslems they laugh at Democracy, they say that we in the West world have no culture worth talking about and that they will wipe the floor with such fools easy as, it just takes a bit of time and then they will not even have too kick it down as it will fall all by it's self.
Islam has strength and have a culture united they say.

I was talking to a atheist mate and he loves the Jews as they can never do wrong in his eyes, he is just a product of the trash that TV and media ect play that builds up narrow minded fools egos, so he claims that he wants to kill every Moslem in the world and I said that that Islam is much smarter than any Atheist by far, your atheist mob has not got a clue what you are dealing with I said, you are boxing at shadows you fool and could not fight your way out of a wet paper bag, but Islam knows how to fight they are masters at it, you will not even see it coming when you get king hit. Islam is laughing at the West, they have it in the bag. Democracy has not a leg to stand on nowadays.

A healthy Democracy is one thing, but we have a corrupted democracy nowadays it's like it has AIDS.

Once the west took Jesus out of the picture and picked up Political Correctness as it's god the rot truly set in.
Just like ones dad has the authority over his children, the child must obey him regardless or you will reap what you sow.

To say that Christianity is Totalitarian is insane. maybe under the new age Political Correctness view such is seen as totalitarian.

The Churches nowadays are all Political Correct and weak as piss they never stand up for Christ Jesus ever, he is dragged out when they want to play you with something. Jesus to most nowadays is just some gay dude peddling worldly humanism and Political Correctness, it has Social Marxism Totalitarian stench all over it, it plays possum for now but once it kicks in you will see how Satanist like Hitler used such to stand over everyone like a mongrel dog, no one could pop out with freedom of speech for they were attacked and same thing was the key to Communism power over the people. without Political Correctness Hitler would never of got a foot hold over the people, same with all the Communist bastards you want to mention, that's the key !

Any real religion will wipe the floor with atheist because all atheist are just like a scatter brain brat kid who can't see past him self and his ego blinds him.
All the pathetic modern day bastards reject freedom of speech, just pathetic ! what total morons ! they know nothing of history worthy of jack.

 

[ReChoired]

Interesting.

Like the "mother" and 'harlot daughters'. Romanism, does call herself the "mother" (quotes upon request).

 

[ReChoired]

Because the love of many waxes cold.

And "love" is defined as:

Exo_20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Joh_14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1Jn_5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
2Jn_1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.​

 

[VictoryinJesus]

And "love" is defined as:

Exo_20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Joh_14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1Jn_5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
2Jn_1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Great passages. Another is Matthew 5:43-48 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. [44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; [45] That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. [46] For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? [47] And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others ? do not even the publicans so? [48] Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Tell me please . . . who have I condemned? Am I not the one being accused?



Seriously. Who have I condemned? And if no one, then isn't this false?

I bring this up so that we can dispense with this sort of thing . . . may we?

I dont know Mark's, who have you condemned? Whoever you say is going to hell is who you have condemned I guess, right? Because you seem to think if a man does what is right, but doesnt claim certain things, then it doesnt matter that he does what is right, he's going to hell. And conversely, a man who claims certain things but doesnt do what is right is going to heaven. And all this despite Jesus saying He didn't come to call men to turn to Him who do what is right but to call sinners to turn to Him. So I think you should not make sad those who God doesnt want to be sad.