Is water baptism necessary for salvation?

[Helen]

Consider this Scenario. A young man, lead by his Pastor, has just announced, in front of the whole congregation his Belief and Faith in the the Son of The Living God, Jesus Christ, for forgiveness of his sins. As he walked up the steps to the baptismal, he slipped and bumped his head and died before he even touched the water. Is he saved or not?

The Lord Jesus Christ ONLY, is Worthy of all our Praise and Worship!

You are preaching to the converted !! LOL

 

[charity]

Consider this Scenario. A young man, lead by his Pastor, has just announced, in front of the whole congregation his Belief and Faith in the the Son of The Living God, Jesus Christ, for forgiveness of his sins. As he walked up the steps to the baptismal, he slipped and bumped his head and died before he even touched the water. Is he saved or not?

The Lord Jesus Christ ONLY, is Worthy of all our Praise and Worship!

Hello @jshiii,

Of course!

:)

 

[charity]

Sorry that is very false.. Water Baptism is a grace from God that He does and it is required to be considered saves at St. Peter told the crowd when ask what they must do. The historic Church has believed that Water Baptism was required. Unfortunately people did not like things so made a man made idea of Christianity like no Baptism, or Baptism is not required, or Baptism is just spiritual, or the Communion elements are just symbolic all lies from Satan himself and many have followed. I can not judge others Salvation I can say Salvation is only if a person believes and gets Water Baptized.

Hello @historyb,

There is no falsehood.

With respect, that 'crowd' that you refer to, to whom Peter gave the words, 'repent, and be baptized', were men of Israel, inhabitants of Judea and Jerusalem, whom Peter could address as, 'brethren'. This was very much a Jewish necessity, in order that the Lord Jesus Christ may return and the times of refreshing from the presence of the Lord take place as prophesied (Acts 2 & 3).

No, the testimony of Scripture does not tell us that water baptism is a requirement for salvation. If it did, such words as that found in John's gospel in chapter 20, would not have been written:-

'And many other signs truly did Jesus
in the presence of His disciples,
which are not written in this book:
But these are written,
that ye might believe
that Jesus is the Christ,
the Son of God;
and that believing
ye might have life
through His Name.'
(John 20:30-31)

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

What's pretty simple is that Scripture and historical 1st century Christians writings make it very clear that water is necessary for baptism.

Your theory is the teaching of men from the 16th century.....congratulations!

Thanks for admitting my <theory is the teaching of men from the 16th century>, viz., of a Protestant although it so happened the Reformers remained Roman Catholics as far as baptism was concerned.

And of course water is necessary for water-baptism, but not to "baptise IN THE NAME" like happened at Pentecost and in Acts 10 and why Peter categorically stated "NO WATER AND NO MAN can hinder / prevent to be baptised" BY THE SPIRIT as happened in the verses that lead up to verse 47.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

What's pretty simple is that Scripture and historical 1st century Christians writings make it very clear that water is necessary for baptism.

And it is another LIE this here. NO Scripture and NO historical 1st century Christian writing suggests water is necessary for the baptism commanded and authorized by Jesus Christ. STOP be headstrong.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Excellent..... if you cut out parts of Scripture that speak of water baptism that don't agree with what you believe

Kindly tell which <Scripture that speak of water baptism> COMMISSIONED BY JESUS CHRIST OR THE APOSTLES.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I don't say there was no such thing as water baptism.
I was water baptised myself.

I do NOT believe that water baptism is necessary for salvation....which is what the subject of this thread is all about.

Good, but why not the truth and nothing but the truth <there was no such thing as water baptism> that Jesus or an apostle commanded, demanded or did?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Ephesians 5:26,27

Marshall, "in order that Christ might sanctify cleansing (the Church) by washing of THE-WATER-BY-WORD in order that He may present the Church to Himself"
No baptism here and no water ordinary.

 

[Helen]

Good, but why not the truth and nothing but the truth <there was no such thing as water baptism> that Jesus or an apostle commanded, demanded or did?

Maybe most of us got baptised in water because we were told that is what Jesus requires of a newly converted Christian. My old pastor told me, so I did. But, he did at least point out that once we are up out of the water to always point back to that day...and say to the devil..."Go away, I am dead with Christ and alive to God..I do not ever have to listen to you again."

Bless his heart, he was a sweet old man. Teaching to the 'light' that he had.

This is at least one of the discussions that 'either way' and which is believed, it won't change our position in Christ or our salvation standing with Him.
In other words..." Not a beach to die upon." :)

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Don't know I m not one, don't assume

No diffs; there's scarcely difference between Calvinists and Catholics as far as water-baptism is concerned.

 

[Enoch111]

<there was no such thing as water baptism> that Jesus or an apostle commanded, demanded or did?

Now you are simply contradicting Scripture. (1) Water baptism was a commandment of Christ, (2) Peter commanded the first Jewish and Gentile believers to be baptized, (3) Paul was baptized immediately after his conversion, and (4) throughout the book of Acts, every person who was saved was immediately baptized. So if you do not believe that you might as well take the book of Acts out of your Bible.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Hello @historyb,

There is no falsehood.

With respect, that 'crowd' that you refer to, to whom Peter gave the words, 'repent, and be baptized', were men of Israel, inhabitants of Judea and Jerusalem, whom Peter could address as, 'brethren'. This was very much a Jewish necessity, in order that the Lord Jesus Christ may return and the times of refreshing from the presence of the Lord take place as prophesied (Acts 2 & 3).

No, the testimony of Scripture does not tell us that water baptism is a requirement for salvation. If it did, such words as that found in John's gospel in chapter 20, would not have been spoken:-

'And many other signs truly did Jesus
in the presence of His disciples,
which are not written in this book:
But these are written,
that ye might believe
that Jesus is the Christ,
the Son of God;
and that believing
ye might have life
through His Name.'
(John 20:30-31)

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Thank you for maintaining your uncompromising, but humble, Christian attitude. To me that means you are a real Protestant! God bless

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Now you are simply contradicting Scripture. (1) Water baptism was a commandment of Christ, (2) Peter commanded the first Jewish and Gentile believers to be baptized, (3) Paul was baptized immediately after his conversion, and (4) throughout the book of Acts, every person who was saved was immediately baptized. So if you do not believe that you might as well take the book of Acts out of your Bible.

No Scripture; no reply.

 

[Enoch111]

No Scripture; no reply.

How about I send you the book of Acts as an e-book? It is probably missing from your Bible.

 

[reformed1689]

No Scripture; no reply.

They DID reply with Scripture, you just didn't recognize it.

 

[charity]

How about I send you the book of Acts as an e-book? It is probably missing from your Bible.

Hello @Enoch111,

Forgive this intervention between you and GerhardEbersoehn: but during the Acts period the call of Peter, made in Acts 3:19-20 to his countrymen was still being heard; and the door was still open for them to repent. So, yes, I believe that water baptism was still in place during that period. This is where @GerhardEbersoehn will disagree with me I believe.

* During the gospels the Holy Spirit had not been given (John 7:37-39). Following the giving of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 water baptism remained a baptism of repentance, but it was coupled with the receipt of the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38).

* Also when Peter saw that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been given to the gentiles in Acts 10, he said:-

'Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized,
which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.'
(Acts 10:47-48)

* This baptism identified the gentile believer with the Lord, and the word concerning Him that they had heard from the lips of Peter and had believed. It is worth noticing that this act of believing was followed by the receipt of the gift of the Holy Spirit: prior to their baptism with water and not after it. They were baptised into the Olive Tree of Israel, and partook of the millennial blessings of Israel of which the gifts of the Holy Spirit were a foretaste.

* However, following the revelation given to Paul while in prison in Rome, after Israel's fall into the blindness of unbelief at the end of the Acts period, in the epistles written to the Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon, water baptism is notable by it's absence.

* It is then that we are given notification of the seven-fold unity of the Spirit in Ephesians 4, in which one baptism is the requirement: and that has to be baptism by the Holy Spirit, for the door to Israel to repent had been closed, and salvation had been sent to the Gentiles (Acts 28), therefore water baptism was no longer a requirement. They were no longer baptised into the Olive Tree of Israel, for it was no longer there to be baptised into, for it had gone away into unbelief, the temple was destroyed in AD70, and the people of Israel scattered throughout the nations.

* I realise that many will not agree with what I have said here, but I would ask that you at least give it some thought.

Thank you. :)
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[historyb]

Now you are simply contradicting Scripture. (1) Water baptism was a commandment of Christ, (2) Peter commanded the first Jewish and Gentile believers to be baptized, (3) Paul was baptized immediately after his conversion, and (4) throughout the book of Acts, every person who was saved was immediately baptized. So if you do not believe that you might as well take the book of Acts out of your Bible.

And while he's at it take out more books too just to have fun. Great post.

 

[historyb]

No diffs; there's scarcely difference between Calvinists and Catholics as far as water-baptism is concerned.

Not a Calvinist either, I am a Traditional Christian in the Charismatic Episcopal Church

 

[reformed1689]

No diffs; there's scarcely difference between Calvinists and Catholics as far as water-baptism is concerned.

This actually isn't true either. Especially if it is Reformed Baptists.

 

[historyb]

Romans disagrees.

Nope, you can not isolate one thing or in this case a book or verse and assume that is how everything should be. What happens when one jettisons the historic Church is what we see here when people think that Baptism is not a requirement and that mere belief is, sadly most evangelicals reject what has always been taught from the beginning. sigh.