Is water baptism necessary for salvation?

[Nancy]

I know. I was just kidding. And Helen can take a ribbing any time.

I know you were kidding, and I do love your sense of humor

 

[Helen]

I know. I was just kidding. And Helen can take a ribbing any time.

And some days I just wish there was a lot more lightheartedness on here, to dilute the heaviness when things get too tense. ( for me) :)

 

[Nancy]

And some days I just wish there was a lot more lightheartedness on here, to dilute the heaviness when things get too tense. ( for me) :)

WORD!

 

[Getitright]

'He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.'
(Mark 16:16)

Hello @Getitright,

This thread asks a question, 'Is water baptism necessary for salvation?'

Your response referred to Mark 16:16a. as a proof text that baptism was a necessary requirement for salvation. On the basis of this I endeavoured to point out that the context of the statement in that verse needed to be taken into consideration, before concluding that this was indeed justifiably a proof text in support of that.

I cannot divorce your question to me, from the context of that verse: for in relation to that verse, by Whom it was spoken? to whom? at what time? and with what intent? I conclude that this instruction was to the twelve, whose ministry was to the Jew, that it was baptism in water that it referred to, and was fulfilled during the acts period.

During that period Jews and Gentiles were baptised in water, and received the gift of the Holy Spirit. At the end of the Acts period, Divine revelation was given to Paul, and revealed in his later epistles, in which one baptism only is spoken of, and that is baptism of the spirit (Ephesians 4), which is the experience of every believer, who is sealed by the Holy Spirit when faith enters and he is born from above.

* No yes or no answer possible I'm afraid, at least not from me.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Yet Paul himself indicates that baptism ties one to Christ and the resurrection.

 

[farouk]

It is about accepting Christ first and foremost of all. As well as when you do be baptized it is washing away your old self and putting on your new life with Christ. Forgetting all behind!

I do see that in Acts 2.41, people were baptised because they were already Christians, having gladly received the Gospel; they did not become baptised in order supposedly to be able to believe the Gospel.

 

[farouk]

Hi @farouk,

Yes, it is. It is also open to misuse though isn't it? For it obviously speaks of those who have not heard the gospel of God concerning His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ: and who, though not having heard, obey the law of conscience within them, and seek to live in a manner which is pleasing to God, the maker of heaven and earth.

Yes, God in His wisdom knows the secrets of men's hearts, and He is therefore able to judge justly.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

I don't believe in the supposed Rousseau-led idea of the 'noble savage', supposedly pristine in his clear, pagan conscience...

 

[Davy]

In another thread, the subject of water baptism has intervened into the subject of the thread, and threatens to divert (The Hope Of The World). This subject can be a contentious one, but I hope it can be approached with love on all sides.

On the side of the necessity for water baptism for salvation, certain verses were quoted in that thread by a participant, which could provide a starting point.

John 3:5, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, 1 Peter 3:21

The answer is YES, water baptism is necessary. Our Lord Jesus set the example for us, so those who think they don't need to do it, and are able, are actually placing themselves above our Lord's example.

For those who only believe on their death bed, similar to the malefactor that believed who was crucified with Jesus, that is a different case. Our Lord Jesus is able to save without water baptism also.

But for those of us who are able to do it, we have no... excuse.

So this is not a matter where we need a big ole' huge Bible debate. It's simple common sense based on our Lord Jesus' example.

 

[charity]

I don't believe in the supposed Rousseau-led idea of the 'noble savage', supposedly pristine in his clear, pagan conscience...

Hi @farouk,

I don't understand, I'm afraid.

:)

 

[Waiting on him]

The answer is YES, water baptism is necessary. Our Lord Jesus set the example for us, so those who think they don't need to do it, and are able, are actually placing themselves above our Lord's example.

For those who only believe on their death bed, similar to the malefactor that believed who was crucified with Jesus, that is a different case. Our Lord Jesus is able to save without water baptism also.

But for those of us who are able to do it, we have no... excuse.

So this is not a matter where we need a big ole' huge Bible debate. It's simple common sense based on our Lord Jesus' example.

He gave us an example of walking on water also...... is this necessary?

 

[Truther]

Water baptism is definitely for salvation. Jesus said he that is baptized shall be saved

Peter said it is for the remission of sins.

Paul said it is how we get into Christ.

We must definitely be baptized

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

They were not LOST , they were still virgins, with oil...but they were shut out of the Millennial reign ...they could not partake of the 1000 reign with Christ.

I agree with @Ezra you are a heard hearted legalist.
If your heart wasn't as hard, you may be able to see Father God as He is..not how you would be if you were God.

If you read the parable of the 10 talents you would see how the one servant judged God as harsh and hard...and God says " Okay, if that is how you see me..I'll judge you by your own heart. "

"Be careful in what measure you use for it will be measure back unto you."

No spin at all, the door was clearly not open for the unwise virgins, no deathbed conversion.

Again, the word legalism is not even in the Bible for it is a made up term to hurl at those who oppose Luther's faith only heresy. If obeying the will of God makes one a legalist then Christ must have been the biggest intolerant legalist to ever walk the earth, Hebrews 5:8.
Paul says "obedience unto righteousness" (Romans 6:16) and NOT obedience unto legalism.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

legalism
What God wants and what He doesn't want.
Obey all the rule.
Don't you know that you ought to do this...but you must not do that.

You must Reject Colourful clothes. Get rid of everything in your wardrobe that is not white or black.
Stop sleeping on a soft pillow. Get rid of all the fun things and entertainment in your house, Sell your TV and radio.

Don't laugh too much ...don't this and don't that...
THEN if you have got it all right, God will then love you and you are righteous .

My bible says that God ear is ALWAYS open to their cry...young, old, or on the deathbed.

1 Peter 3:12 "For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil."

Isa 1:15 "And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood."

Isa 59:2 "But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear."

Proverbs 1:24-28 "Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof: I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you. Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:"

Proverbs 28:9 "He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination."

John 9:31 "Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth."

 

[Helen]

Is it supposed to be more impressive , being in red font! LOL

 

[marks]

Is it supposed to be more impressive , being in red font! LOL

Fun with fonts!

 

[Helen]

Fun with fonts!

Oh I like that...very pretty ...I wonder how long it would take to write a post in various fonts and colours!!

Now THAT IS impressive LOL

 

[charity]

The answer is YES, water baptism is necessary. Our Lord Jesus set the example for us, so those who think they don't need to do it, and are able, are actually placing themselves above our Lord's example.

For those who only believe on their death bed, similar to the malefactor that believed who was crucified with Jesus, that is a different case. Our Lord Jesus is able to save without water baptism also.

But for those of us who are able to do it, we have no... excuse.

So this is not a matter where we need a big ole' huge Bible debate. It's simple common sense based on our Lord Jesus' example.

'And I knew Him not:
but that He should be made manifest to Israel,
therefore am I come baptizing with water.'
(John 1:31)

Hello @Davy,

Thank you for your post.

So you are answering the question, 'Is water baptism necessary for salvation?', with a resounding 'Yes!' it seems.

* You cite the baptism of the Lord Jesus Christ as an example of why we should be baptised with water: Yet, the Lord was not baptised in water for salvation's sake, for He needed none: but that He should be revealed unto Israel; as John the Baptist tells us in the verse quoted (above).

In the case of the malefactor who was crucified with Jesus, to whom you refer, for whom there was no opportunity for water baptism, you say this was a special case, he being saved without water baptism. Forgive me, but that is mere human reasoning, and not borne out by Scripture. The malefactor, by his words (Luke 23:39-42), made clear that He believed that the Lord Jesus was the Christ (the anointed one) and believing he therefore had life through His Name (John 20:31): that was all that was required to assure Him of a place with Christ in paradise (Luke 23:43): for water baptism is not a requirement for salvation.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[charity]

'I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord,
beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
There is -
.. one body, and
.... one Spirit, even as ye are called in
...... one hope of your calling;
........ One Lord,
.......... one faith,
............ one baptism,
.............. One God and Father of all,
Who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. ... '
(Ephesians 4:1-16)

* As this epistle (Ephesians), along with the other letters written from prison by Paul (Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon) were the last of Paul's writings: surely what they have to say on the subject of baptism should be considered. This portion from Ephesians makes clear that, 'the unity of the Spirit,' comprises of seven points, which are to be kept by those who believe, as a trust.

* The sixth point is, 'One Baptism': so what is that baptism? Is it of the Spirit, or of Water? If not water, why is it still being practised? Is christendom guilty of not 'keeping' the unity of the Spirit, by not abiding by the One Baptism appointed, which is of the Spirit, and in spirit?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[charity]

'Till we all come in the unity of the faith,
.. and of the knowledge of the Son of God,
.... unto a perfect man,
...... unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
That we henceforth be no more children,
.. tossed to and fro,
.... and carried about with every wind of doctrine,
...... by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
But speaking the truth in love,
.. may grow up into Him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
.... From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth,
...... according to the effectual working in the measure of every part,
........ maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.'
(Ephesians 4:13-16)

Hello there,

This is the glorious object of keeping the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. This is the wondrous goal in view! How important therefore that we do endeavour to KEEP it.

In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[Davy]

'And I knew Him not:
but that He should be made manifest to Israel,
therefore am I come baptizing with water.'
(John 1:31)

Hello @Davy,

Thank you for your post.

So you are answering the question, 'Is water baptism necessary for salvation?', with a resounding 'Yes!' it seems.

* You cite the baptism of the Lord Jesus Christ as an example of why we should be baptised with water: Yet, the Lord was not baptised in water for salvation's sake, for He needed none: but that He should be revealed unto Israel; as John the Baptist tells us in the verse quoted (above).

In the case of the malefactor who was crucified with Jesus, to whom you refer, for whom there was no opportunity for water baptism, you say this was a special case, he being saved without water baptism. Forgive me, but that is mere human reasoning, and not borne out by Scripture. The malefactor, by his words (Luke 23:39-42), made clear that He believed that the Lord Jesus was the Christ (the anointed one) and believing he therefore had life through His Name (John 20:31): that was all that was required to assure Him of a place with Christ in paradise (Luke 23:43): for water baptism is not a requirement for salvation.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris

Mark 16:16
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
KJV

That's our Lord Jesus speaking that. If He didn't deem baptism with water important He would not have said it. And note that He showed there also that it's disbelief that damns one's soul specifically, which reveals He has power to save without water baptism also if needed for those like the malefactor on the cross.

You can try to drum up all sorts of excuses that we don't really need to get baptized of water, but those are just excuses.

Confession of Faith on Jesus Christ as one's Savior and water baptism are the main introduction steps into a life in Christ Jesus.

 

[Waiting on him]

Mark 16:16
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
KJV

That's our Lord Jesus speaking that. If He didn't deem baptism with water important He would not have said it. And note that He showed there also that it's disbelief that damns one's soul specifically, which reveals He has power to save without water baptism also if needed for those like the malefactor on the cross.

You can try to drum up all sorts of excuses that we don't really need to get baptized of water, but those are just excuses.

Confession of Faith on Jesus Christ as one's Savior and water baptism are the main introduction steps into a life in Christ Jesus.

It’s upon hearing and receiving the gospel we are born again. The water we’re born of is a metaphor (gospel) it flows from the heart of all the born again.