What Mormons Believe--according to a Former BYU Professor

[Prayer Warrior]

If your definition of "cult" = "somebody who does not believe Sola Scriptura", then yes (and vast majority of professing Christians) are "cultists". I passionately do not believe in Sola Sciptura.

I don't believe that any major Protestant denominations, or the Catholic or Orthodox churches state that they elevate any book above the Holy Bible in authority. (Not to say that I can speak for all fringe groups out there.)

Protestants typically object to the Catholic doctrine of ex cathedra (the Pope speaks infallibly "from the chair"). In fact, this was a major reason for the Protestant Reformation. I strongly object to this doctrine, but it does not constitute elevating any written books or scriptures above the Bible.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I don't believe that any major Protestant denominations, or the Catholic or Orthodox churches state that they elevate any book above the Holy Bible in authority. (Not to say that I can speak for all fringe groups out there.)

Protestants typically object to the Catholic doctrine of ex cathedra (the Pope speaks infallibly "from the chair"). In fact, this was a major reason for the Protestant Reformation. I strongly object to this doctrine, but it does not constitute elevating any written books or scriptures above the Bible.

God Himself is the source of all Truth.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

God Himself is the source of all Truth.

Of course He is. Jesus is the truth. So, anything that clearly contradicts Jesus' words recorded in the Bible cannot be the truth.

Jesus spoke this truth:

John 4:23-24--But an hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth. Yes, the Father wants such people to worship Him. God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

The D&C contradicts this truth. “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s” (D&C 130:22)

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Of course He is. Jesus is the truth. So, anything that clearly contradicts Jesus' words recorded in the Bible cannot be the truth.

Jesus spoke this truth:

John 4:23-24--But an hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth. Yes, the Father wants such people to worship Him. God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

The D&C contradicts this truth.

Have we not already beat this dead horse enough?

The passage doesn't say "the Father is a being of Spirit".

I acknowledge that you have the interpretation that is does. But I read the passage and don't see that, and I cannot ethically change that.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Have we not already beat this dead horse enough?

The passage doesn't say "the Father is a being of Spirit".

I acknowledge that you have the interpretation that is does. But I read the passage and don't see that, and I cannot ethically change that.

Here's the KJV: "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

Here's the AMPC: God is a Spirit (a spiritual Being) and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth (reality).

Edit: In the AMPC, the words in parentheses denote an expanded meaning based on Greek manuscripts.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Here's the KJV: "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

Again: Have we not already beat this dead horse enough?
The passage doesn't say "the Father is a being of Spirit".
I acknowledge that you have the interpretation that is does. But I read the passage and don't see that, and I cannot ethically change that.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Again: Have we not already beat this dead horse enough?
The passage doesn't say "the Father is a being of Spirit".
I acknowledge that you have the interpretation that is does. But I read the passage and don't see that, and I cannot ethically change that.

Context, my dear. Look at the context.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Context, my dear. Look at the context.

I find context to disprove the point even further.

I'm sorry if that affects you in any way negatively, but I canNOT change what I find scripture to be saying because it disagrees with you or any other man's interpretation. To do so would be in violation of Gal 1 and I"m not ok with that.

 

[brakelite]

I defined the term cult earlier in this thread, and I use it very conservatively. I stand by my conclusion that Mormonism is a cult.

Are you saying that you don't believe Mormonism is a cult? What is your definition of a cult?

LOL In order to protect myself from most church's condemnation, I would need to redefine the meaning of the term cult. Most Christians believe SDAdventism is a cult.

 

[brakelite]

LOL In order to protect myself from most church's condemnation, I would need to redefine the meaning of the term cult. Most Christians believe SDAdventism is a cult.

Not that I care. Of sometime thinks I'm a member of a cult, I'll embrace it. Others opinions mean very little of they can't substantiate it with scripture.

 

[farouk]

Uh, no, I used the Bible itself to explain this.

Show me a Bible verse where God the Son is called "God."

Hebrews 1.8: "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

 

[farouk]

LOL In order to protect myself from most church's condemnation, I would need to redefine the meaning of the term cult. Most Christians believe SDAdventism is a cult.

People from nominally sound churches can also use hermeneutic / interpretation methods which - like cults - read things into the Bible which aren't there...

 

[brakelite]

I don't believe that any of these are Christian doctrines that would be used to determine whether a group is a cult. No doubt, you and I would disagree on some of these. I would disagree on specific Bible doctrine with a lot of Protestants.

However, I would not go outside the Bible to prove my point. And this is the main reason I consider Mormonism a cult. They elevate other books to the authority of the Holy Bible (and even above the Bible's authority).
.

Which is why I also set Catholicism apart from Christianity. To me, Christianity as a lifestyle and worldview and practice, is based on scripture and the life of Christ as revealed in scripture. The problem is that Catholics and Mormons and JWs and Adventists all claim scripture as their ultimate authority... But is that claim substantiated ? That's the stuff of forums eh?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Which is why I also set Catholicism apart from Christianity. To me, Christianity as a lifestyle and worldview and practice, is based on scripture and the life of Christ as revealed in scripture. The problem is that Catholics and Mormons and JWs and Adventists all claim scripture as their ultimate authority... But is that claim substantiated ? That's the stuff of forums eh?

It would be more accurate to say that all Christian professing people believe God is the ultimate authority. They then differ on beliefs of the different methods this guidence from God is received and (more dramatically) the emphasis on each method.

 

[brakelite]

It would be more accurate to say that all Christian professing people believe God is the ultimate authority. They then differ on beliefs of the different methods this guidence from God is received and (more dramatically) the emphasis on each method.

A Catholic will tell you God's authority is paramount, but in reality it is the bishop who relates to the Catholic what he should believe, and woe betide any Catholic who thinks that he is permitted to define doctrine from scripture. Look at the insulting put downs from Catholics on this forum when any Protestant suggests that through his relationship with God and with the aid of the spirit of God he can decide for himself what to believe from scripture. Little popes... That cliched response alone tells us that it is the Pope who is really the final authority on all things Catholic and the suggestion being we should all surrender our sovereignty and our eternal destiny into his care.

 

[Giuliano]

Hebrews 1.8: "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

There is a slight problem with that verse since it adds something not found in Psalm 45.

Psalm 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

It's not the only place in the book of Hebrews where the Old Testament gets cited wrong. I find it hard to believe a Jew writing to other Jews could make this mistake.

Hebrews 9:2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.

The manna was not kept in the Ark. Neither was Aaron's rod.

Exodus 16:33 And Moses said unto Aaron, Take a pot, and put an omer full of manna therein, and lay it up before the Lord, to be kept for your generations.
34 As the Lord commanded Moses, so Aaron laid it up before the Testimony, to be kept.

Numbers 17:10 And the Lord said unto Moses, Bring Aaron's rod again before the testimony, to be kept for a token against the rebels; and thou shalt quite take away their murmurings from me, that they die not.

1 Kings 8:9 There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone, which Moses put there at Horeb, when the Lord made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt.

2 Chronicles 5:10 There was nothing in the ark save the two tables which Moses put therein at Horeb, when the Lord made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of Egypt.

I am left with the conclusion that a Gentile tampered with the text of the Book of Hebrews.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Which is why I also set Catholicism apart from Christianity. To me, Christianity as a lifestyle and worldview and practice, is based on scripture and the life of Christ as revealed in scripture. The problem is that Catholics and Mormons and JWs and Adventists all claim scripture as their ultimate authority... But is that claim substantiated ? That's the stuff of forums eh?

Not true with Mormons or JW's. The Bible (correctly translated) is not their highest authority.

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet concerning the word cult. I have never considered SDA a cult, so perhaps you could settle down a bit and consider what I've actually said. That would be really nice. :)

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Not true with Mormons or JW's. The Bible (correctly translated) is not their highest authority.

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet concerning the word cult. I have never considered SDA a cult, so perhaps you could settle down a bit and consider what I've actually said. That would be really nice. :)

Countless times I've seen the word "cult" used to justify downright un-Christ-like behavior done as people claim it's "in defense of Christ". I've seen this done against SDA, Protestants, Catholics, LDS, etc.

I don't blame brakelite or anyone else having a great dislike for that term. It's been used for too many crimes and only serves to shut down real Christ-centered dialogue/understanding.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Hebrews 1.8: "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

Regardless, the point is that Jesus was clearly talking about God the Father, and not God the Son, when He said that "God is a Spirit." Even though Jesus is God, he did not refer to Himself as "God."

So, this Mormon belief is completely unbiblical: “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s” (D&C 130:22)

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Countless times I've seen the word "cult" used to justify downright un-Christ-like behavior done as people claim it's "in defense of Christ". I've seen this done against SDA, Protestants, Catholics, LDS, etc.

I don't blame brakelite or anyone else having a great dislike for that term. It's been used for too many crimes and only serves to shut down real Christ-centered dialogue/understanding.

I understand what you're saying, but considering that Mormons have done their share of killing and bullying, I think it's a moot point.

When you say "Christ-centered dialogue," I kind of get the feeling that you mean consensus, meaning a general agreement. But for me to come to a general agreement with you about doctrine would mean that I have to give up biblical truth. IOW, I cannot agree with your Mormon beliefs that are based on Mormon scriptures other than the Bible without giving up my Bible-based beliefs. And I'm talking about doctrines central to Mormonism, like the belief that God the Father was once as man (as human men are).

What good would it do you if I gloss over unbiblical beliefs? It is the TRUTH that sets us free!