Teresa of Avila and Watering the Garden

[stunnedbygrace]

Since you don't like learning from mere man,,,
you should have looked it up yourself.

Being a Berean means you can't ask someone to look up a Greek word...?

 

[GodsGrace]

Actually and accurately being justified or declared blameless is to be right with God.

But righteous is as righteous does. It is by faith AND actions...works...that we will be justified.

I've always agreed with your statements, not that I read all of them.
Sometimes it's word that cause a problem for how we understand them, or what we understand them to mean.

As you've stated, being declared JUSTIFIED is to be declared RIGHT WITH GOD.
When you speak of WORKS...then we've moved from JUSTIFICATION into SANCTIFICATION.

Sanctification means doing the works of God. It's more closely related to HOLINESS than RIGHTEOUSNESS. We are either right with God or we are not...THIS IS JUSTIFICATION.
Once we are justified, we are RIGHT WITH GOD.

Holiness is being set aside for the WORKS OF GOD...this is sanctification..which has the EXACT SAME MEANING.....being set aside for the WORKS OF GOD.
Holiness and Sanctified ARE THE SAME.

Anyone could look this up,,,

Of course it is God who decides who does what is right. A righteous person doesn't realize they are righteous. A person who sees themselves as righteous is indeed self-righteous. A righteous person follows his conscience in humility and the fear of the Lord...regardless of doctrinal stances.

So then the righteous are not religious very often.

You're using a HUMAN understanding of the word righteous and not a THEOLOGICAL understanding.

Righteous means being right with God.
If I'm born again, I am right with God and there's nothing self-righteous about this.
Are we not secure in our spiritual life?
It's just a statement and not a sign of self-righteousness.
This human dictionary meaning of the word is what is causing a problem here.

It seems Christianity now goes along with pride, arrogance and judgmentalism. It is against righteousness and it falls far short of holiness...being neither righteous nor holy. Having made a man-made variant that pleases men but not God. That is the modern form of Christendom...whereby a person justifies himself for his doctrinal beliefs.

And men loved to have it so.

It is the sign of the times.

Actually, I agree with you.
But being RIGHTEOUS, in theological terms,
DOES NOT mean having:
pride
arrogance
judgemtalism
un-holiness.................

IT JUST MEANS BEING RIGHT WITH GOD.

check it out.....

 

[Waiting on him]

But righteous is as righteous does. It is by faith AND actions...works...that we will be justified.

Justified by our works, does Gods scripture support this?

 

[GodsGrace]

Being a Berean means you can't ask someone to look up a Greek word...?

Of course.
It means you listen, and then you look to scripture to make sure it's correct.

What else could it mean??

 

[GodsGrace]

Justified by our works, does Gods scripture support this?

@Episkopos will answer for himself...

But you're right. Scripture does NOT support this.
We are justified by faith alone...Ephesians 2:8
BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Justified by our works, does Gods scripture support this?

Yes, it does. I think its...James?

 

[Waiting on him]

Justified by our works, does Gods scripture support this?

Romans 3:24 KJV
[24] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:


Tecarta Bible

 

[Waiting on him]

Yes, it does. I think its...James?

Provide scripture please
Feel free to ask Epi if you need to

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, it does. I think its...James?

See what I mean?

In ONE VERSE in all the N.T. it states that we are not justified by faith alone but by works.
Sometimes the word justified was misused for sanctified. This is because the Apostles had not defined all the words yet.

This is why theologians are necessary,,,because they studied the bible back and forth and clarified everything. The ECFs, BTW, were theologians.

So what do YOU think?

Does one have to WORK to be saved (justified)?

 

[farouk]

We are justified by faith alone...Ephesians 2:8
BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH.

Indeed.

James's insight in his Epistle is that faith without works is dead. Works follow true faith.

But the merit of works never contributes one iota to supposedly earning salvation; it's by the grace of God through faith in the Person and work of the Lord Jesus.

 

[Episkopos]

When you speak of WORKS...then we've moved from JUSTIFICATION into SANCTIFICATION.

Not necessarily..,.we can do good works from our own consciences...unto righteousness.

Holiness is being set aside for the WORKS OF GOD...this is sanctification..which has the EXACT SAME MEANING.....being set aside for the WORKS OF GOD.
Holiness and Sanctified ARE THE SAME.

Yes! :)

God working through us to do His works....that God willed from eternity that we should do.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Justified by our works, does Gods scripture support this?

The jews tried to be right with God by works, but did not mix it with faith. We have fallen in the complete opposite ditch.

 

[GodsGrace]

Indeed.

James's insight in his Epistle is that faith without works is dead. Works follow true faith.

But the merit of works never contributes one iota to supposedly earning salvation; it's by the grace of God through faith in the Person and work of the Lord Jesus.

Amen to that.

I'm not saying we shouldn't do good deeds,,,,but they do not save us.

 

[Episkopos]

Justified by our works, does Gods scripture support this?

Of course. We will all be judged by our works. And our words.

No one is going to be judged on their beliefs. We will be judged BY our beliefs and the standard we held others to. As we judge...so we will be judged.

If we look down on people of other religions...then our behaviour will be compared with theirs...and if their behaviour is better...then we will be rejected from the kingdom. (we prove our own condemnation by being worse than they who we condemned) That is how God's righteousness works. But modern people hate God's righteousness. It doesn't serve man's self esteem. ;)

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Provide scripture please
Feel free to ask Epi if you need to

Faith without works is dead.

I better not ask epi for fear your head would explode...

 

[GodsGrace]

Not necessarily..,.we can do good works from our own consciences...unto righteousness.


Yes! :)

God working through us to do His works....that God willed from eternity that we should do.

OK. But what do you mean by this:
we can do good works from our own consciences...unto righteousness.


What does UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS mean?
Are you saying we could work our way TO salvation?
Or are you saying we have to do good works AFTER salvation to continue being right with God?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Romans 6:19-22 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. [20] For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. [21] What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. [22] But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.


1 John 3:10-11 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. [11] For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

 

[Episkopos]

OK. But what do you mean by this:
we can do good works from our own consciences...unto righteousness.


What does UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS mean?
Are you saying we could work our way TO salvation?
Or are you saying we have to do good works AFTER salvation to continue being right with God?

There is much religious confusion in the churches of today.

Doing good comes from the conscience...knowing what is good and evil...from the point of view of men. So we can know well enough that helping others is good...whereas killing them is wrong.

So on the basic level of what men can do...we can choose to act according to righteousness. OUR choice.

But if we want to do more than just what is right by choice...we want to walk perfectly with God...then we need to enter INTO Christ to walk in HIS power. Then the works are of God...not us. The works then are holy.

All you have to do is stop thinking by religious indoctrination...think like a little child...and you will understand the difference between what men can do and what God can do.

 

[Waiting on him]

No one is going to be judged on their beliefs. We will be judged BY our beliefs and the standard we held others to. As we judge...so we will be judged.

Didn’t you just say Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness?

 

[Philip James]

Amen to that.

I'm not saying we shouldn't do good deeds,,,,but they do not save us.

Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,


Pax!