Once Saved Always Saved Garbage Teaching!!

[Heart2Soul]

A pastor I heard said it beautifully that we have been set free from the noun, but we are still overcoming the verb.

I like that analogy!

 

[Mayflower]

this subject does nothing more than create DIVISION people are so busy arguing can you /you cant half dont even know the Bible . might i add we are more secure in salvation .than what many believe. i realize this will create a fire storm.. { i have plenty living water } what does it say norn of the incorruptible seed.. i was listening to a missionary baptist preacher sunday .. he said i believe in osas he then said . i also believe they will stay with it.. that point i agree
1 John 2:18-20 King James Version (KJV)
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

i have read about a former pastor denouncing his faith.. i doubt he was ever saved . sad thing is many don't even begin to understand the true teaching of eternal security... which is not a license to sin

I don't think tthe subject does. Things like the title name do though. Because then people start getting on the defense. I had a little eye rolling going on too when I read the title, but eternal security was what I was raised believing. This has been challenged in later years and my church believes you can walk away and lose salvation. I don't believe a true believer would.

Now I often question the Bible story of the ten virgins, 5 wise and 5 foolish. Because I believe they were all believers, but some were made to leave, because they had to go get more oil for their lamps. I am not understanding it if it has to do with eternal security or something else. Also the parable with the man who owed a debt. He didn't forgive someone else's debt and was sent to the tormentors. He was a servant of the master also. So yes, the question comes to mind, because I definitely have a lot to learn still. But there are more scriptures as to why I believe I am eternally secure. Some of which have been mentioned already.

I rather serve out of love then fear. And partly I think if I didn't believe in eternal security I would be too afraid and not serve as well.

 

[OzSpen]

After talking with people who hold this view, their biggest weakness is theology around the human spirit
and fruit in the believers life.

I am currently investigating both.
Human spirit - a spark of life, ones emotions, not eternal, not significant
Fruit - God destroys things that are not fruitful, literally.

FH,

If your definition of 'human spirit' is correct and does not refer to that which is eternal and is not significant, how do you reconcile this with these biblical statements?

The spirit leaves the body at death:

James 2:26 (ESV): ‘For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead’.

Eccl 12:7 (ESV): ‘and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it’.

Luke 23:36 (ESV): ‘Then Jesus, calling out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last’.

Luke 8:54-55 (ESV): ‘But taking her by the hand he called, saying, “Child, arise.” And her spirit returned, and she got up at once. And he directed that something should be given to her to eat’.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

If we're saved permanently on earth after being born again then why does the bible say in phil 2:12 you have 2 work out ur salvation wiv fear and trembling. The race is not over yet theirs many hurdles 2 climb, many trials and tribulations you have to go through. eccl 3:12 1 peter 4:12.

Jesus said ull be persecuted 4 my names sake!! are u being persecuted? he said the world will hate you! are u being hated by the world? its not a picnic people so get this foolish Calvinism teaching out of ur heads. you have 2 cross the finish line 1st, its like walking a tight rope, jesus said matthew 10:22 those dat endure 2 the end will be truly saved not those dat are born again will be truly saved there and then.

Dove,

I urge you not to begin a new post with a heading like you've made: Once Saved Always Saved Garbage Teaching!!

The language of 'Garbage teaching' closes down communication. I find it better if you provide the reasons why you disagree with OSAS. A heading like this would be better to engage me in dialogue: 'I have some difficulties with OSAS'. Then in your first post you could give one of your biblical reasons for supporting this Calvinistic teaching.

Then, I would ask: Have I missed something taught by Calvinism in my explanation?

Just a thought.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

You should visit more often.
There are some right here on this forum.
Look around,,,you'll see a bit of everything.

The other member is getting all of this from those that claim to know scripture.

GodsGrace,

I was speaking with a woman last week about her son who, she said, became a Christian and was 'filled with the Spirit' (physical evidence of speaking in tongues) when he was aged 11. She said he had wandered away from God and is now living in a homosexual relationship - at age 38. However, he was 'sealed' by the Holy Spirit and his salvation is secure. He is still saved because he was 'sealed' at age 11.

This is where that kind of teaching comes from: 'Sealed by the Holy Spirit'.

This is a serious attack on Scripture because is states: 'So if we say that we share in life with God, but we continue living in darkness, we are liars, who don’t follow the truth' (1 John 1:6 ERV).

Matt Slick of the CARM ministry provides his exposition in, 'What is eternal security of the believer?'

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

I didn't mean I don't know anyone that believes in osas. Although I don't care for the term (osas) I believe in the eternal security of the believer. There simply is too much one would have to discard to believe otherwise. Jesus loses none that are given to Him....Jn 6

Nondenom,

When push comes to shove, don't the Calvinists make OSAS = eternal security = unconditional election?

Matt 24:13 states, 'But the one who endures to the end will be saved' (NLT). That's why I prefer the language 'Perseverance of the Saints' that was supported by both John Calvin and Jacobus Arminius. See John Calvin's commentary on 1 John 3:9 and Arminius on Perseverance of the Saints.

Oz

 

[ScottA]

The key word here is "saved."

If one is actually saved, by definition, they have passed from death to life, and it is no longer them who live, but Christ who lives in them. Those are the biblical facts.

The crazy thing about anyone who does not believe that a saved person is forever saved...is they are saying it of Jesus. And then there is the hate and name calling, and fiery darts, and the tit-for-tat of pitting of one scripture against another (as if God were against Himself)...that's pretty crazy too.

 

[Enoch111]

Now I often question the Bible story of the ten virgins, 5 wise and 5 foolish. Because I believe they were all believers, but some were made to leave, because they had to go get more oil for their lamps.

These parables were not meant to weaken the eternal security of the believer but to have all who *profess* Christ to examine themselves, and determine whether they are in fact in Christ, and possess the Holy Spirit. Indeed Paul says that we are to examine ourselves, whether or not we are in the faith, and whether Christ is in us (2 Cor 13:5).

The five foolish virgins which had no oil at the coming of Christ for His Bride were outwardly professing Christians to whom Christ would say *I never knew you*. Otherwise they could not have been shut out of His presence.

I am not understanding it if it has to do with eternal security or something else. Also the parable with the man who owed a debt. He didn't forgive someone else's debt and was sent to the tormentors. He was a servant of the master also.

The same with the wicked servant. Children of God are not called *wicked* after they are saved. But if they practice wickedness after they claim to be Christians, they are obviously not saved.

No genuine believer who has repented and believed on Christ, and received Him as Lord and Savior, can ever lose his or her salvation. They have been supernaturally born again, and supernaturally placed or *baptized into* the Body of Christ, having received the gift of the Holy Spirit.

That is why I say that the OP is *clueless* -- ignorant about the true meaning of salvation.

 

[DoveSpirit05]

Your point about persecution is a valid statement, our Savior stated that we would be persecuted for His Name Sake!! He also said that if any person would save their own life, that they would loose it! So to be more exact, that when we are persecuted, to the threat of being put to death, unless we denounce Him, as to save our life, then we would loose the Life with Him. Salvation can be lost. If we do not confess Him before man, then He will not confess Us before the Father. So Be Faithfull to the End, no matter what your end may be. For they Hated Him without a Cause!!!

Well said partner!!

 

[DoveSpirit05]

Why does it also say in Philippians 1:6 being confident of this very thing that he who begun a good work in us will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.

hay there!! I fill no ill will against you! you probly don't agree with much of wat I say and dats ur choice but I think you have a (Grace) only watered down version of Christianity dats not biblical and is deceiving about 80% of the world population let alone most of the self-proclaiming Christians out there. all i'm getting from you is the love parts of the gospel. wat about jesus talking more about hell den heaven!! why is it dat part seems 2 get left out of many peoples mouths.

it says in daut 4:2 do not add or subtract from the word, in other words preach the whole council of the word not just the fruity bits!! and dats what i'm simply doing, exactly wat the bible says 2 do! and if i'm wrong den I guess im guilty as charged. now I don't know where u learned how 2 be a Christian or wat pastor taught u but its clear from where i'm sitting dat uv been given an ear tickling message, only the parts dat are pleasing 2 you!

in theory all this shows is how carnal we are as a race and dat we are in desperate need of a saviour because as humans all we wanna do is focus on wats pleasing 2 our flesh, wat sounds good 2 us, wat soothes us, but we don't wanna know about the harsh things, the rough things even tho! its 4 our own good, it builds character. And now the carnal mind has made up its own doctrine and traditions 2 please the flesh and has turned away from the scriptures!

Now of course u can cherry pick a verse here and there but do they harmonise with the rest of the bible? any other words here's 2 verse's which the whole new testament sits on - matt 22:37 and 39 now try denying dat? and once again "I fill no ill will against you!" "I fill no ill will against you!" "I fill no ill will against you!" "I fill no ill will against you!" just in case u focuss on the rough parts of my message!!
I actually care about people uno and I care about u 2 and I want people 2 know the truth. no hard feelings!! :)

 

[Heart2Soul]

hay there!! I fill no ill will against you! you probly don't agree with much of wat I say and dats ur choice but I think you have a (Grace) only watered down version of Christianity dats not biblical and is deceiving about 80% of the world population let alone most of the self-proclaiming Christians out there. all i'm getting from you is the love parts of the gospel. wat about jesus talking more about hell den heaven!! why is it dat part seems 2 get left out of many peoples mouths.

it says in daut 4:2 do not add or subtract from the word, in other words preach the whole council of the word not just the fruity bits!! and dats what i'm simply doing, exactly wat the bible says 2 do! and if i'm wrong den I guess im guilty as charged. now I don't know where u learned how 2 be a Christian or wat pastor taught u but its clear from where i'm sitting dat uv been given an ear tickling message, only the parts dat are pleasing 2 you!

in theory all this shows is how carnal we are as a race and dat we are in desperate need of a saviour because as humans all we wanna do is focus on wats pleasing 2 our flesh, wat sounds good 2 us, wat soothes us, but we don't wanna know about the harsh things, the rough things even tho! its 4 our own good, it builds character. And now the carnal mind has made up its own doctrine and traditions 2 please the flesh and has turned away from the scriptures!

Now of course u can cherry pick a verse here and there but do they harmonise with the rest of the bible? any other words here's 2 verse's which the whole new testament sits on - matt 22:37 and 39 now try denying dat? and once again "I fill no ill will against you!" "I fill no ill will against you!" "I fill no ill will against you!" "I fill no ill will against you!" just in case u focuss on the rough parts of my message!!
I actually care about people uno and I care about u 2 and I want people 2 know the truth. no hard feelings!! :)

Actually I got set free of condemnation years ago. I know I am a sinner saved by grace and that as I grow I become more like Jesus everyday. It didn't happen overnight. It became a process. As He changed what was in my heart...(that even I didn't know was there) He changed me. And He isn't done with me yet. I continue to seek His truth and to become less self seeking and self righteous I draw nearer to Him. As I decrease He increases in me. I serve to be a service for His Glory...not mine.

 

[Heart2Soul]

@DoveSpirit05 would you be so kind as to share your sinless life with others and how you managed to do it?

 

[Heart2Soul]

hay there!! I fill no ill will against you! you probly don't agree with much of wat I say and dats ur choice but I think you have a (Grace) only watered down version of Christianity dats not biblical and is deceiving about 80% of the world population let alone most of the self-proclaiming Christians out there. all i'm getting from you is the love parts of the gospel. wat about jesus talking more about hell den heaven!! why is it dat part seems 2 get left out of many peoples mouths.

it says in daut 4:2 do not add or subtract from the word, in other words preach the whole council of the word not just the fruity bits!! and dats what i'm simply doing, exactly wat the bible says 2 do! and if i'm wrong den I guess im guilty as charged. now I don't know where u learned how 2 be a Christian or wat pastor taught u but its clear from where i'm sitting dat uv been given an ear tickling message, only the parts dat are pleasing 2 you!

in theory all this shows is how carnal we are as a race and dat we are in desperate need of a saviour because as humans all we wanna do is focus on wats pleasing 2 our flesh, wat sounds good 2 us, wat soothes us, but we don't wanna know about the harsh things, the rough things even tho! its 4 our own good, it builds character. And now the carnal mind has made up its own doctrine and traditions 2 please the flesh and has turned away from the scriptures!

Now of course u can cherry pick a verse here and there but do they harmonise with the rest of the bible? any other words here's 2 verse's which the whole new testament sits on - matt 22:37 and 39 now try denying dat? and once again "I fill no ill will against you!" "I fill no ill will against you!" "I fill no ill will against you!" "I fill no ill will against you!" just in case u focuss on the rough parts of my message!!
I actually care about people uno and I care about u 2 and I want people 2 know the truth. no hard feelings!! :)

How long have you been saved?

 

[DoveSpirit05]

@DoveSpirit05 would you be so kind as to share your sinless life with others and how you managed to do it?

Yes! its simple, I obey the bible!!

 

[DoveSpirit05]

How long have you been saved?

What I have now is a earthly salvation!! as long as I obey God and don't sin wilfully, but the real eternal salvation comes when we cross the finish line!! having kept ourselves holly and righteous before God.

 

[FollowHim]

FH,

If your definition of 'human spirit' is correct and does not refer to that which is eternal and is not significant, how do you reconcile this with these biblical statements?

The spirit leaves the body at death:

James 2:26 (ESV): ‘For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead’.

Eccl 12:7 (ESV): ‘and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it’.

Luke 23:36 (ESV): ‘Then Jesus, calling out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last’.

Luke 8:54-55 (ESV): ‘But taking her by the hand he called, saying, “Child, arise.” And her spirit returned, and she got up at once. And he directed that something should be given to her to eat’.

Oz

The spirit in us is the spark of life, without the spark we are dead.
The spark of life returns to God, and the body is just dust.
When Jesus died, he commited the essence of His life to God, for God to raise Him again.
The spirit or spark of life returned to the girl, and she got up.

There is a big difference calling the spark of life the independant consciousness and reality of an individual
outside the body that passes over and onwards into other worlds. That is spiritualism, and the basis of
mediums and talking to the dead. Scripture bans such activity and is the basis of much heresy and lying.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Yes! its simple, I obey the bible!!

Dodging the question.

 

[Heart2Soul]

What I have now is a earthly salvation!! as long as I obey God and don't sin wilfully, but the real eternal salvation comes when we cross the finish line!! having kept ourselves holly and righteous before God.

Does not answer the question...dodging again.
Look...I am not your judge nor do I want to put condemnation on you. Your salvation is between you and God. I cannot see your heart. He judges our heart. I regret joining this thread. What breaks our Father's heart is this very thing. I bow out. It isn't for me to condemn or rebuke what you believe as long as you believe Jesus is our way to salvation then how you arrive at the finish line is between you and Him. We each have our own walk to walk according to our faith.

 

[FollowHim]

Dodging the question.

Maybe you should give examples of what you regard as sin.
Some call speeding a sin, or crossing the road at the wrong place, or not following some man made rule
that is a guide and empowers authorities to take action but that is all.
Some have uncontrolled rage against bad drivers or trains being late, or people being rude.
Some think shouting out when you hit your hand is sin, or getting frustrated when stuff does not go
right. So I wonder whether the legalist in you is speaking louder than the grace and promise of Christ.
God bless you

 

[Heart2Soul]

Does not answer the question...dodging again.
Look...I am not your judge nor do I want to put condemnation on you. Your salvation is between you and God. I cannot see your heart. He judges our heart. I regret joining this thread. What breaks our Father's heart is this very thing. I bow out. It isn't for me to condemn or rebuke what you believe as long as you believe Jesus is our way to salvation then how you arrive at the finish line is between you and Him. We each have our own walk to walk according to our faith.