Please explain this.

[bbyrd009]

bbyrd apparently sees his main task here as taunting and antagonizing Christians.

fwiw i didnt mean it to be this way, or plan it or anything. But see you cannot answer, except when it suits your purpose to do so, to recruit other ppl into trying to save their souls too, right, and being prepared to give an accounting, bah! Right? You can just reliably deflect away from any accounting here, and see no one calls you on your bs, for the most part. I am just the a-hole now bc i am asking for an accounting, which you will bend over backwards to avoid giving, and you will keep posting as if you know, when we are already assured by Scripture that you know jack, see? No way that could be considered taunting or agonizing as long as you stay "civil," right, just be pc and youll be ok with me huh. Dont like the Q, put the guy on ignore, works for me.

Why dont we just talk about cats, if you want to be friends, i'm cool with that. And lemme tell you that i--who actually believe that all must come before the judgement seat of Christ to be judged for their works done while in the body, whether good or evil, period, see, full stop, no adding a bunch of pious sounding bs to make my gang look better or anything--am prolly not near as prepared for that accounting as you are anyway, and HR, jesus, the guy is prolly a saint i bet lol, i mean i dunno about you but my gay relatives are some of the sweetest ppl i know...anyway, my apologies ok, i know i am the last guy should be here talking to you anyway, always knew that.

anyway, i prolly did it again i guess, have a nice evening ok, and like i said, you do not have to be prepared to give an accounting for the hope that is in you to me, ok, you can believe death more abundantly til the day you die too, idc, really. I honestly wish you the best of luck with that ok, that and the magic spell thing too. Who am i, to say that a profession will not save you, i am nobody ok.

 

[bbyrd009]

bbyrd apparently sees his main task here as taunting and antagonizing Christians.

um, wasnt my last post to you but one an apology? Maybe you havent gotten to it yet in your feed though, ok gnight

 

[atpollard]

bbyrd apparently sees his main task here as taunting and antagonizing Christians.

To give credit where it may be due, I am not sure bbyrd009 is completely wrong in his theology. I am unsure if he is correct, incorrect or somewhere in between. His posts are so ‘sharp’ that it is difficult to tease the message out from the parries and thrusts.

I sort of wish he would just make theological points and support them with scripture without the snarking sarcasm and insults. However let’s be honest, this isn’t really a “communication” topic ... it feels more like a donnybrook (Irish brawl).

 

[bbyrd009]

To give credit where it may be due, I am not sure bbyrd009 is completely wrong in his theology. I am unsure if he is correct, incorrect or somewhere in between. His posts are so ‘sharp’ that it is difficult to tease the message out from the parries and thrusts.

I sort of wish he would just make theological points and support them with scripture without the snarking sarcasm and insults. However let’s be honest, this isn’t really a “communication” topic ... it feels more like a donnybrook (Irish brawl).

ha ya, does i guess huh. For that, what you are asking, that was like a year ago now, and i guess i'm just not as patient as ithe should be. Plus i am like the last guy should even be here doing this anyway, never made any bones about that. I'll address your post tomorrow ok, gnight bro

 

[bbyrd009]

HR this may mot mean much to you, being as how what you understand to be Christianity is i guess a...nation you want to be a member of, but it makes me sick how you have been made to feel about yourself, ok. Cross the sea of reeds if you can imo bro. There is abs nothing wrong with you just like you are ok. You already know full well that works are all that matter i think--we did already reveal that pretty conclusively, yes?--and if you are sinning that means someone has a valid complaint about your behavior toward them, yeh? When's the last time you heard a complaint? Even second hand? Ha you cannot even remember, it has been so long, huh.

 

[Grailhunter]

Didn't I tell you that some Jews have formulated lies to "lead the goyim astray"? Whether THEY believe in the devil or not is not relevant. They are antichrist.

Why are you preaching Judaism 101? They are antichrist and soon they will have you reading the Talmud, and even the Zohar. Satan can appear as an angel of light.

So? They were Hellenized Jews. Greek was the lingua franca of the entire Mediterranean basin in that day--it was natural that some words and concepts would spill into Judaism--but not in any substantial way. So what? It is still the "place of the dead" in both languages and the concept of sheol goes back til at least the time of David because he mentions it in Psalm 139 (vs. 8). The bottom line is that you either trust that God was able to protect His word or you don't. I do trust that God knows who will listen to Him and who will not. Those who will not listen will run to and fro seeking the lies of men instead. Satan can do his clever worst to try to get God's children to doubt what God has said but it will not work against those God has chosen before the foundation of the world. Has Satan ever not had that as a tactic?

Different day....I have little interest in Jewish beliefs after Christ's ministry. My interests are with Old Testament Jews and Jews during Christ's ministry. The point I was trying to make before I was shot down, was that the Jews were theologically ill-equipped to deal with a God Messiah. And Christ knew this because He was keeping His miracles secret. For the most part they followed the Jewish rule of Law about someone that would stand up and say they were the Son of God.

 

[brakelite]

It is poor teaching that would result in a "Christian" saying that. It is impossible to lose eternal life once having gained it. BUT, they still must stand in front of Jesus one day at the Bema Seat and explain to Him why they have sullied the gift they have been given by living for the devil and not God. It is my experience that those who say such things are not really in possession of eternal life. Once we are "reborn from above" the thought of grieving the Holy Spirit and insulting the Blood of Christ with how we live, is definitely NOT appealing. If one truly has eternity in view, the world, the flesh and the pride of life has a vanishingly small influence on us.

Do you really think that anyone who was living for the devil will be standing anywhere near Christ in judgement?
Okay, an edit on that. Everyone must stand before Christ at some stage. What I mean by the above, for him, the outcome methinks will find him losing his balance rather abruptly when his foundations begin to crumble.

 

[brakelite]

If my choices are that death or wasting away, which should i be seeking, do you think? See i object bc you maybe cause ppl to run away from somethig they should be running toward, like Armageddon, right, which is inferred there? Who do you think brings Armageddon, bl? Who should be most afraid of Armageddon, me, or satan, "w ho" already knows that Armageddon is his end?

You remind me of those who are working assiduously to help Israel build their third temple in order to help God fulfill prophecy... Or at least their version of prophecy. Christian Zionists. I should encourage people to run toward Armageddon because that is what brings Satan his demise? Okay, there is a certain amount of truth in that and i am not averse to explaining how that is an important aspect of the gospel... But the fear aspect is nonexistent for those who embrace the Sabbath. They are already dead right? How else did they recognise it in the first place except they die?

only see the details are not hazy here number one, you have made a specific prophecy that sabbatarians will be legally killed for taking saturdays off,

Okay. The details I was referring to were the specific world conditions and personal motivations which carry the legislation into existence. That such laws will come about can be seen... The precise how's and wherefores are a little hazy.

you are pesenting it in a fear mongering way, to scare people, which is why my post has been cherry-picked here to remove the eprtinent part, see, bc i would encourage any sabbatarian reading this to go and do their best to get literally murdered for keeping Saturday sabbath, i dont think you can, and that is not what the v you might bring up is talking about anyway, this oppression/killin that one can see with their two eyes. More than one way to "kill" someone, they can still be walking aroind after they have been "killed" anyway, see

okay, I'm still working through this... Read it four times and still a little perplexed as to where you are coming from... Sorry.

nor will you imo, after all we are talking about a Commandment, yes? But that Commandment is strictly for you, ok, strictly for me, if we want it, and other ppl can all go jump off a bridge, see, doesnt matter, i am no less a hypocrite despite my attempts to keep saturday anyway i guess. So see i have this log, and i'm gonna try and pull splinters?

Yeah. Well. Our warnings against Antichrist and his mark and the impending conflict over religious freedom that the gospel in the last days infers, takes into account that the message is being promulgated by finite men who are just as dependant upon the grace of God as the next man. Doesn't remove one iota from the urgency of the message though.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

What is the nature of everlasting life? Is it not life that will never end?

If my salvation is life everlasting, but I lose that salvation, then my everlasting life came to an end, and therefore it was not everlasting.

Therefore, the fact that it is everlasting life means that by nature I cannot lose it as salvation.

There is one thing that can nullify by grace through faith. That one thing is to not continue and grow in that trust.

Explain how that can be in light of the argument that I have given

You see eternal life as the prize. But if one is saved for eternal life, but as a vessel of dishonor, then is eternal life the prize, or is eternal life IN CHRIST the prize?

You see the prize, what we are running our race of trust FOR, as a different thing than me.

So as epi would say, saved to WHAT?

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi GG,
There are many reasons end times need to be understood, it is actually the main conduit to my becoming saved in '91. The following is a short article that names 7 reasons to not shun it. I find it fascinating, myself. We all have areas, I think, that we are drawn more to than others but...I think it is important nonetheless :)
It's not long to read ♥
7 Reasons Your Church Should Take Eschatology Seriously | The Master's Seminary

Hi N,
I'm not to keen on number 4. I think we should have that attitude anyway.

I mean, I know a little bit about eschatology....I just don't think I could speak to it with any kind of knowledge that goes beyond the simple.

I do believe the end is coming.
I believe Jesus is coming back ONE TIME. When the world ends.
Those in their graves and also we will be taken up off the earth and taken to heaven.
I don't believe in any 1,000 year reign of satan and then he comes back and taunts humans again.
I don't believe in the rapture. I believe the one taken means something totally different and some theologians do agree with this.

That's about all I know.

 

[faithfulness]

You see eternal life as the prize. But if one is saved for eternal life, but as a vessel of dishonor, then is eternal life the prize, or is eternal life IN CHRIST the prize?

You see the prize, what we are running our race of trust FOR, as a different thing than me.

So as epi would say, saved to WHAT?

Was thinking about that exact same thing just minutes ago...fwiw:)

 

[bbyrd009]

or is life more abundantly supposed to be the prize? Not even srsly considered by those who call themselves Christian anymore, see? We're all looking up into the sky for Jesus and talking about "Mars" now yeh? We are aware on some level that Mars is the god of war, arent we?

Soli Deo gloria is a Latin term for Glory to God alone.

yes, i know mr pollard, i guess my Catholic bias--or Catholicism bias i mean, i love catholics for the most part--just got in the way there for a minute, my apologies. Latin just kinda sets me off sometimes, to my mind it is the language of religious obfuscation, usually i ignore it.

[John 1:29 NASB] 29 The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

[Romans 3:21-26 NASB] 21 But now apart from the Law [the] righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even [the] righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. [This was] to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26 for the demonstration, [I say,] of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

[Hebrews 2:14-18 NASB] 14 Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives. 16 For assuredly He does not give help to angels, but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham. 17 Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.

[2 Corinthians 5:18-21] 18 Now all [these] things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 He made Him who knew no sin [to be] sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

[1 John 2:1-2 NASB] 1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for [those of] the whole world.

[1 Peter 1:17-19 NASB] 17 If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay [on earth;] 18 knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, 19 but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, [the blood] of Christ.




Soli Deo gloria is a Latin term for Glory to God alone.




[Matthew 22:32 NASB] 32 'I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."

[Mark 12:27 NASB] 27 "He is not the God of the dead, but of the living; you are greatly mistaken."

[Luke 20:38 NASB] 38 "Now He is not the God of the dead but of the living; for all live to Him."

[John 3:36 NASB] 36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
[Jhn 5:24 NASB] 24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
[Jhn 6:47, 54 NASB] 47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. ... 54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

[2 Corinthians 2:15-16 NASB] 15 For we are a fragrance of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing; 16 to the one an aroma from death to death, to the other an aroma from life to life. And who is adequate for these things?

good stuff, mr pollard. I guess reading It with one eye is pretty tough, and i dunno anyone "being saved" here though...at least among the vocal. A um few might admit to that i'm sure.

no offense but i dont see how you have addressed the implications of my post, the part you Quoted? ty

 

[GodsGrace]

According to John 5:24, we have already passed from death unto life if we hear the words of Jesus and believe on Him who sent Him. What is the nature of that life? It is that we "have" everlasting life according to the same verse. Therefore from the first moment that we believe on Christ, we pass over from death into everlasting life. The nature of that life is that it will never end. In John 6:47, the one who believes in Christ in the present tense "has" everlasting life...this means that I have and will continue to have (for ever) everlasting life because I currently believe on Christ (assuming it is a heart faith and not mere mental assent as we have been contending for some time).

It is logical that when a man begins to have the right kind of faith, that this is a faith that will never leave him, it is everlasting faith; because the man has been sealed by the Holy Ghost and He within him is a deposit guaranteeing what is to come.

I'm happy that you stated that our lives do have to change.
And that the one who BELIEVES in Chris...present tense
DOES HAVE everlasting life.

I could live with that.
I find that what you put in parenthesis and highlighted by me
is VERY important). If you can only understand it this way,,,fine.

 

[bbyrd009]

If she did, does that mean that demons and witches have power over the souls of deceased Saints?

hmm, not sure what power she might have been displaying "over" Samuel? So my response here would prolly be that as near as i can tell we are told to not practice necromancy, and not told that necromancy does not produce some results?

and no offense ince again here ok, but once again i asked a Q about the validity of Scripture there, and see i did not really get an answer, wadr. Ha well i plain old did not get an answer i guess huh.

You say so much for "safe," but Samuel's complaint amounts to "who woke me up," yeh? Not exactly unsafe imo. ok ty

 

[GodsGrace]

It is poor teaching that would result in a "Christian" saying that. It is impossible to lose eternal life once having gained it. BUT, they still must stand in front of Jesus one day at the Bema Seat and explain to Him why they have sullied the gift they have been given by living for the devil and not God. It is my experience that those who say such things are not really in possession of eternal life. Once we are "reborn from above" the thought of grieving the Holy Spirit and insulting the Blood of Christ with how we live, is definitely NOT appealing. If one truly has eternity in view, the world, the flesh and the pride of life has a vanishingly small influence on us.

I have to agree with all of the above.

I just want to say that IF someone IS living for the devil...
how does he get into heaven?
Rev 21:27

@justbyfaith believes in a two tier belief system.
Some solution has to be found because there are persons going around who claim to be Christian but have not experienced what you say above.

 

[bbyrd009]

She would know that she was a fraud (as all who claim to converse with the souls of the dead are

i gotta say here LC you seem awful sure, i would say terminally sure, and in the face of Scriptural evidence to the contrary? See when Scripture says "when she saw Samuel" but you say "she was a fraud" which am i to believe now?

So fwiw i'll say here that i know, well am acquainted with anyway, ppl, at least one person, who would change your mind here in about 5 seconds, and you would not ever want to talk to her again i guess. And fwiw her strict policy is "if you even think i am a fraud, the session is on the house." Some ppl she will not take money from even, at least so i am told.

 

[bbyrd009]

made a “gentlemen’s agreement” with God for my soul

are you suggesting that you have a soul, mr pollard?

So what I want to do is simple

mr pollard this is prolly going to get frustrating for you really quick bc see once again my post has been completely ignored, not answered at all, see, and i just dont want to go down this path again ok, no offense meant. I appreciate you time here, have a nice day, and best of luck to you sir

 

[GodsGrace]

No--eternal life is never conditional upon behavior--but salvation IS. That is why the expression, "once saved, always saved" is misleading. If that seems utterly confusing to you, hang on--I will explain. "Salvation" and the salvation word family, in the Old Testament and even, the New Testament almost never refers to eternal life. That is probably why Jesus doesn't mention salvation except in a few instances and it is not clear, at times, whether He is speaking of salvation or eternal life. The two are NOT synonymous--the word salvation basically means "deliverance" whereas, eternal life is just that. Deliverance from what? Danger, sickness, premature death, accidents, and various calamities. In Luke 19, when Jesus says that "today salvation has come" to the house of Zacchaeus, it is not clear whether He is speaking of Zacchaeus' mortal life being saved or eternal life having been conferred upon him. As a result of Zacchaeus' promise to quit extorting money from the Jews (and compensating those he cheated) it may have only meant that he wouldn't be knocked off by the Zealots who were always lurking about, for example.

I never said salvation is conditional upon behavior..UNLESS a person is living a LIFE OF SIN, which I believe is different from sinning. What I do say is that IF we abandon God and are no longer IN CHRIST, then we will become lost again becaue our life-line is missing.

I agree with everything else you've said and you've said some very important concepts...like what are we saved from. Kudos to you. Not to many times is this mentioned. Re Zaccheus...I do believe it's mostly spiritual salvation since Z was already giving to the poor. I think he was trying to be a good man. But he was still a sinner. I used to like to tell this story to the kids...they could relate a lot to it,,,they were short also! But it also was earthly, as you've stated.
I could be both...see Luke 19:10 Jesus came to save that which was lost.
A lost soul.

A NOTE about the Zealots: The Zealots were Jews who were extremely resentful of their Roman overlords and particularly those Jews who were put in positions like tax collector. Zacchaeus (many Jews took on Greek names in order to ingratiate themselves with the Romans--his given name was probably Zachariah) was a Jew (Jesus calls him a "son of Abraham" in Luke 19:9). If so, he was not only a sell-out to the Romans but one who cheated other Jews (by his own admission). He would have been a prime target of the Zealots' more radical group, who called themselves "Sicarii" for "dagger men". The Sicarii had the nasty custom of slipping into a crowd, and using a razor-sharp dagger to slit open the belly (disemboweling) of a Jewish target (a certain, slow and agonizing death, in those days). The assassin might even procure a bag of money off his victim, if the victim was in one of the marketplaces--which were always crowded. Jostling from the crowd was a given. The assassin would then melt back into the crowd--before the Romans even got wind of it, and often precious moments before the target even knew he had been attacked--giving the assassin time to get away. Roman officials were much harder to assassinate, in that way, as they were always surrounded by Roman soldiers when out and about in Judea. The Sicarii were often hesitant to attack a Roman for another reason--the Romans might extract severe penalties from the Jews for such an act. The Romans didn't particularly care if the Jews killed each other, as long as order was not disturbed. A Jewish tax collector was easily replaced by the Romans.

In Italian his name is Zaccheo.
Great post.
Lots of info.

Zacchaeus may well have saved himself (along with his whole house, since he was the "wage-earner") from the Sicarii, by his pledge to "clean up his act". Salvation is almost always conditional--God says, "Do these things and you will live." Even in the Epistles, we see the difference between salvation and the conferral of eternal life, upon close examination.

Great point.
Right.
"Greater things will befall you".

Salvation was/is conditional on living a "clean life" (being "blameless" is the way that the OT puts it) and, in the Old Testament, in particular, it referred to having one's mortal life saved. Thus, Noah and his family were "saved"--from the flood waters. But the ark that God ordered him to build had nothing to do with preserving Noah in the afterlife--i.e. it did NOT furnish him with eternal life.

The after-life is not really spoken of too much in the O.T. except to say that we go to the place of the dead.

Macabees speaks of the dead being still living.


cont'd

 

[GodsGrace]

cont'd

In the history of Israel, it was taken for granted that, as those chosen by Yahweh, their souls would "join their fathers" who had gone to the Edenic paradise that God provided, and their spirits would return to God from whom they came. All would be reunited in resurrection on the Last Day. Thus, we see Job declaring in Job 19:26-27, "...after my body has decayed, yet in my body, I will see God. I will see Him for myself. Yes, I will see Him with my own eyes." Job is thought to be the oldest book in the Bible.

In both the Old and New Testament, salvation nearly always has conditions attached. Or, as some pastors have warned, "Choose to sin, choose to suffer." Sin has negative consequences in this life. "Honor your father and mother, so that your days will be long in the Land." In our modern times, murderers will be jailed for years and might even be executed, thieves are jailed, drunks may be killed in a car crash etc. God might choose to "save" us from the negative consequences of our sinful behavior; often, He does not. But it is important to remember that it could have nothing to do with one's eternal destiny. James 1:21 is seen in context to be saying that one would save one's life from premature death by refraining from sin. See also James 5:20 in that vein. James tells us to get rid of sin and be "doers of the word" to stay under God's protection from calamity and avoid the destructive effects of sin in this life. Sin also destroys our witness.

Let's look at 1 Peter 3:21. Here, Peter seems to be telling us that water baptism is important to gain eternal life. Instead, he is more likely saying that the public declaration that goes with baptism, that one intends to live for Christ--would keep us from flagrant sin that would carry us away into the flood waters of sin. Baptism of course, does NOT confer eternal life--but it might reflect an internal reality of belief and it is that belief that causes the more important baptism of the Holy Spirit (being born again from on high) that does confer eternal life. When we submit to the waters of baptism, we are telling the spirit world that we are no longer slaves to sin--that we are, in fact, dead to sin--and that we intend to live in the light which the Father and His Son provide. Interestingly, when I have done pre-baptismal counseling, many counselees have reported that they strongly felt the evil forces trying to prevent them from being baptized and making their public declaration of faith. It is my experience that some of the most powerful testimonies of faith are presented at believers' baptisms.

Hmmmm. Jesus did make it important that we be baptized.
The early fathers believed baptism took away previous sins.
I think it's more than just telling the spirit world that we no longer serve satan.
I don't really understand it well,,,,like prayer.

Finally, let's look at 1 Timothy 4:16. On first glance, it appears that the Apostle Paul is saying that our eternal life is dependent on a concentrated effort to avoid sin and have the proper doctrine. Instead, I think that Paul was telling Timothy that leaders in the churches must display the kind of behavior that their parishioners would respect and that proper teaching is important toward the faith that will not only lead to eternal life but save them from calamity in this life as well. The tragedy of the Christian man I spoke of before is that he came from a very legalistic ("holiness movement") church, and that bad teaching was part of the destruction of his life.

I believe a person must come to some agreement with God.
A church could tell their parishoners whatever they want...I've heard incorrect beliefs in every church I can think of...but we also have a brain and it should not be washed by a person/pastor/priest, whatever.

Re Timothy....Paul was speaking to him as a pastor...but we should always show, externally, that we are separate from the world.

No, it is not, but there are whole lots of Christians who believe that their eternal life is dependent on them maintaining it with good works. Again I ask, how many good works does one have to perform to keep his/her eternal life intact? Eternal Security means that once we have eternal life, NOTHING will remove it. Depending on how one lives his/her life, we may have sincere regret at the Bema seat because of lost opportunities to tell others about Jesus (in word and deed), but, it is important to remember that we will still be in heaven with Our Lord.

I've been asked that: How many works does it take.......
It's a silly question.
I could then ask...how much faith does it take? We even have a poster here that believes there are different types of faith...how could we then be sure we have the right one?

It's not about HOW MANY. It's an attitude.
God is God Almighty.
We serve HIM now and are free from the evil one.
We do our best, we can't do more.
But we should be teaching that obedience IS necessary and is not an option.
If someone understands this to mean 100% obedience, well then they don't understand Christianity, do they? So imagine if they hear that no matter how they live, they will still be saved !

That is undoubtedly true. Suicide is against the natural urge for self-preservation and self-love. Self-loathing is from the evil one and I am convinced that it comes from living with constant shame. The only remedy for shame is to resist the evil one who wants to keep us immobilized by it, and to come to the One who can heal us from its wounds. I pray that all who are considering suicide would do so and discover that He is a wonderful Savior.

Is suicide self-loathing?
Is it deep depression and the desire to make it go away?
Is it wrong thinking?
I certainly don't know. I know that it doesn't glorify God and that
if a person could take their own life they are very desperate.

end.

 

[bbyrd009]

But the fear aspect is nonexistent for those who embrace the Sabbath. They are already dead right? How else did they recognise it in the first place except they die?

well, not sure what you man by It up there, if It is Sabbath then i mean it is a Commandment after all, so i dunno. Not sure why i remind you of any Zionists, you would have to expound some there. I dunno, maybe i do. So i'll say i am not like actively seeking some suicidal mission or anything, which i maybe inferred. I just meant that rather than fear or teach others to fear some future event that may not even literally come to pass--or rather appens pretty much everyday and has been happening since forever and may not stop any time soon--i would contemplate that imaginary--or quite real--scenario...in a diff light than your post provided to me at least. If being rejected is being killed, spiritually, then yeh i got killed a long time ago for that lol, being a sabbath-keeper, such as i am. I might even have been a n SDA were it not for the overweening pride i felt coming off the cong i visited, which might very well have been an anomaly, idk. The "knowing" thing is particularly strong with them, and i just detected more judgemental than any other prot religion that comes to mind, too, and that seemed to be repeated in other SDA settings and wadr with you also. I keep sabbath, and i do not care even a little bit if other ppl do not, the rest of my quite religious fam does not, etc

The details I was referring to were the specific world conditions and personal motivations which carry the legislation into existence. That such laws will come about can be seen... The precise how's and wherefores are a little hazy.

ah ok, iget you now, and also now i see why we were at cross purposes there, bl; i pay almost no attn to the world, and i keep forgetting that that is a valid subject to other believers. It is my problem iow, being naive when i should be more like a fox there i guess. I have a blind spot at that v apparently, not sure how to practically interpret it i guess