Is infant baptism from the Bible?

[Triumph1300]

Not me.
How about you, Pearl?

 

[Pearl]

Not me.
How about you, Pearl?

Definitely not in my mother's womb. But I was baptised properly after I was born again. I was also 'Christened' as a baby but I don't count that as baptism, just as my parents doing the 'right thing'.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well I'll be! Now they's dunkin' babies! LOL. There's not a thing that does for a baby but make him wet. He's got no idea what's happening to him and he's not responding to God when they do that. That baby hasn't believed and repented like all the disciples of John the Baptist did. He's not placing his faith in Jesus like all the new testament believers did. They're just making a religious show of things. Baby dedication is one thing. But dunking a baby is ridiculous. It means nothing for that child, and usually just gives people a false assurance of their personal salvation.

What makes you think that a baby has to "respond" to God when he is Baptized??

Did 8-day-old Jewish babies "respond" to God when they were circumcised and entered into the Covenant with God?? A Covenant is a sacred contract - a sacred oath. HOW can an 8-day-old Jewish Babies enter into a sacred contract with God??

Also - since a Baptized baby did NOTHING to inherit the sin he was born into - what makes you think that he should have to "DO" something when that sin is washed away??

Finally - where do you Protestants get your ideas about "Baby Dedications"??

 

[Triumph1300]

what makes you think that he should have to "DO" something when that sin is washed away??

Legalism teaches you have to "work" your way into heaven.
There's lots of that going on.
Specially in the United Pentecostal Churches.
You have to do this, .....do that....more of this.... etc.
You have to have long hair as a woman, you HAVE to wear a LONG skirt.
And if you dont, you'r OUT.

 

[Pearl]

Legalism teaches you have to "work" your way into heaven.
There's lots of that going on.
Specially in the United Pentecostal Churches.
You have to do this, .....do that....more of this.... etc.
You have to have long hair as a woman, you HAVE to wear a LONG skirt.
And if you dont, you'r OUT.

Not me, short hair and jeans. And I'm still in.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Legalism teaches you have to "work" your way into heaven.
There's lots of that going on.
Specially in the United Pentecostal Churches.
You have to do this, .....do that....more of this.... etc.
You have to have long hair as a woman, you HAVE to wear a LONG skirt.
And if you dont, you'r OUT.

And by the same token - easy-believism spreads the false message that you don't have to do anything but "believe".
Unfortunately, the Bible tells a different story . . .

The Bible says that we must:
- Be baptized (Matt. 28:19-20, John 3:5, Rom. 2:29, Rom. 6:1-11, Col. 2:12-17, 1 Peter 3:21)
- Pick up our cross daily to follow him (Matt. 16:24, Luke 9:23)
- DO works of mercy and charity (Matt. 19:21, 25:31–46, Luke 18:22)
- Obey his commandments (John 14:15, 15:10)
- DO the will of the Father (Matt. 7:21, James 1:22)
- Suffer with Christ (Matt. 10:38, 16:24, Mark 8:34, John 12:24, Rom. 8:17, 2 Cor. 1:5-7, Eph. 3:13, Phil. 1:29, 2 Tim. 1:8, 1 Peter 2:19-21, 4:1-2)

It's not about "working OUR way" into Heaven.
It's about cooperating with HIS grace.

 

[Jay Ross]

And by the same token - easy-believism spreads the false message that you don't have to do anything but "believe".
Unfortunately, the Bible tells a different story . . .

The Bible says that we must:
- Be baptized (Matt. 28:19-20, John 3:5, Rom. 2:29, Rom. 6:1-11, Col. 2:12-17, 1 Peter 3:21)
- Pick up our cross daily to follow him (Matt. 16:24, Luke 9:23)
- DO works of mercy and charity (Matt. 19:21, 25:31–46, Luke 18:22)
- Obey his commandments (John 14:15, 15:10)
- DO the will of the Father (Matt. 7:21, James 1:22)
- Suffer with Christ (Matt. 10:38, 16:24, Mark 8:34, John 12:24, Rom. 8:17, 2 Cor. 1:5-7, Eph. 3:13, Phil. 1:29, 2 Tim. 1:8, 1 Peter 2:19-21, 4:1-2)

It's not about "working OUR way" into Heaven.
It's about cooperating with HIS grace.

You make a very valid point, unless you are prepared to die for what you believe, then your belief has no validity.

If you believe in Law and Order, then unless you are prepared to die so that law and order can prevail, then you do not believe in Law and order.

Our belief in anything is governed by how we express that belief. We can say that we believe in Christ but unless we demonstrate that belief, then our words are hollow and meaningless. Believing without confirmation of our hearts desire to believe is pointless if we do not move forward in that belief towards the promises of God and His requirements of us.

Our words become meaningless unless our actions confirm where our heart really is.

Shalom

 

[BreadOfLife]

You make a very valid point, unless you are prepared to die for what you believe, then your belief has no validity.

If you believe in Law and Order, then unless you are prepared to die so that law and order can prevail, then you do not believe in Law and order.

Our belief in anything is governed by how we express that belief. We can say that we believe in Christ but unless we demonstrate that belief, then our words are hollow and meaningless. Believing without confirmation of our hearts desire to believe is pointless if we do not move forward in that belief towards the promises of God and His requirements of us.

Our words become meaningless unless our actions confirm where our heart really is.

Shalom

NOT really sure where you're coming from because I FULLY agree with your statement in RED.

I agree with how the Bible defines "Faith", which is Belief + Works (obedience) (James 2:14-26).
Unless we cooperate with God's grace, we cannot hope to be saved.

 

[Enoch111]

...You have to have long hair as a woman...

And short sideburns as a man. Time to trim yours. ;)

 

[Jay Ross]

You have to have long hair as a woman, you HAVE to wear a LONG skirt.

Can a woman also wear a blouse to be truly modest? Or is she limited to only wearing a long skirt?

 

[illini1959]

What makes you think that a baby has to "respond" to God when he is Baptized??

Baptism is a response to salvation; not a requirement to attain it.

Did 8-day-old Jewish babies "respond" to God when they were circumcised and entered into the Covenant with God?? A Covenant is a sacred contract - a sacred oath. HOW can an 8-day-old Jewish Babies enter into a sacred contract with God??

An 8 day old Jewish baby's circumcision was a physical entrance into a covenant - it didn't affect his spiritual life. There were plenty of Israelites who were circumcised yet fell away from God. Not a spiritual covenant.

Also - since a Baptized baby did NOTHING to inherit the sin he was born into - what makes you think that he should have to "DO" something when that sin is washed away??

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth, speaking lies.

Romans 5:19 For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

A baby, 'baptized' or not, inherited the sin nature from Adam ^^

Finally - where do you Protestants get your ideas about "Baby Dedications"??

If I had to guess, because this isn't 'commanded', it's just a choice - a public declaration that the parents will raise the child in the Lord - maybe when Hannah dedicated Samuel or ----

Luke 2:22 And when the days for their purification according to the law of Moses were completed, they brought Him up to Jerusalem to present Him to the Lord

 

[BreadOfLife]

Baptism is a response to salvation; not a requirement to attain it.

An 8 day old Jewish baby's circumcision was a physical entrance into a covenant - it didn't affect his spiritual life. There were plenty of Israelites who were circumcised yet fell away from God. Not a spiritual covenant.

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth, speaking lies.

Romans 5:19 For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

A baby, 'baptized' or not, inherited the sin nature from Adam ^^
If I had to guess, because this isn't 'commanded', it's just a choice - a public declaration that the parents will raise the child in the Lord - maybe when Hannah dedicated Samuel or ----

Luke 2:22 And when the days for their purification according to the law of Moses were completed, they brought Him up to Jerusalem to present Him to the Lord

WRONG.

Baptism is a requirement for salvation according to Christ Himself (John 3:5, Mark 16:16).
It is repeated by Peter as a means f removing our sins and SAVING us (Acts 2:38-39, 1 Pet. 3:21).
Paul likens it to circumcision and says that we are brought to FULLNESS in Christ (Col. 2:10-12).

As for Romans 3:25 - this is simply inclusive language. Babies don't sin. Severely retarded people who don't have use of their faculties don't sin. Jesus didn't sin. these are ALL part of "ALL".

Matt. 2:3 says that upon hearing the news from the Magi - Herod was greatly troubled - and "ALL" of Jerusalem with him.
REALLY?? Every single person in Jerusalem was "troubled"?? Every man, woman and infant was "greatly troubled"??
MOST people didn't even know about the birth of Jesus. This is another example of inclusive language.

Finally - Psalm 58:3 is figurative. In utero fetuses don't commit sins.

 

[illini1959]

WRONG.

Well as long as you're sure I'm wrong ;)

Baptism is a requirement for salvation according to Christ Himself (John 3:5, Mark 16:16).

"Water" in John 3:5 isn't baptism. How do I know? Christ hadn't been crucified yet. Baptism for spiritual cleansing/renewal and the New Covenant didn't come into effect until after His resurrection.

What does Mark say here? "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

"Whoever believes" - belief is first; baptism comes after belief. The second part of the verse says whoever doesn't believe will be condemned. Where's the baptism part? Belief is the key.

You have to do more than look at the face value of scripture. If these verses really meant baptism was a requirement for salvation, they directly oppose those who state it isn't. That means closer study is needed.

It is repeated by Peter as a means f removing our sins and SAVING us (Acts 2:38-39, 1 Pet. 3:21).
Paul likens it to circumcision and says that we are brought to FULLNESS in Christ (Col. 2:10-12).

Again what comes first? Repent. Baptism is always AFTER repentance/belief.

In your verses in Colossians what comes first? vs 10 "you have been filled in him..." He's talking to people who are already saved. Again.

As for Romans 3:25 - this is simply inclusive language. Babies don't sin. Severely retarded people who don't have use of their faculties don't sin. Jesus didn't sin. these are ALL part of "ALL".

We ALL sin. We all have a sin nature.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned

Please don't use the word retarded. I'm not a big 'pc' person, but surely you can find a better term.

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Scripture doesn't say "all have sinned except ...."

Romans 3:10 As it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;

Ecc 7:20 Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.

Scripture identifies only one Person as sinless.

Matt. 2:3 says that upon hearing the news from the Magi - Herod was greatly troubled - and "ALL" of Jerusalem with him.
REALLY?? Every single person in Jerusalem was "troubled"?? Every man, woman and infant was "greatly troubled"??
MOST people didn't even know about the birth of Jesus. This is another example of inclusive language.

Context.

Finally - Psalm 58:3 is figurative. In utero fetuses don't commit sins.

Nobody said they did.

They do, however, have a sin nature. That's the difference.

Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.

Everything in Psalms isn't figurative.

Baptism isn't required to be saved. Infant baptism has no significance; babies obviously have no clue about salvation.

There is also no salvation by proxy, so they aren't saved because of their parents. Just in case you planned on going there.

 

[Triumph1300]

You know you guys can argue as much as you want.
Bible says whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.
That seems to be pretty clear.
Baptism, works etc, being obedient...come as a result of salvation.
All works comes as a result of being born again.
It's not the other way around such as: Do works and later receive salvation as a reward for your works.

Go ahead argue some more fellows. :)

 

[Triumph1300]

It's about cooperating with HIS grace.

Yes, and one can only do that after the born again experience.

Unbelievers, non - Christians, cannot cooperate with His grace, unless they are born again.
That can only be done by the Holy Spirit.

It's so simple.

 

[Triumph1300]

Scripture identifies only one Person as sinless.

It's so clear, isn't it?
Why can't people understand that?
A child can understand.
Christ said "come as a child".
It takes theologians to mess up the clear message of the Gospel.

 

[illini1959]

It's so clear, isn't it?
Why can't people understand that?
A child can understand.
Christ said "come as a child".
It takes theologians to mess up the clear message of the Gospel.

Yes, it is!

Because "In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God" 2 Cor 4:4

and

"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Cor 2:14

for starters

 

[Jon Mathews]

What makes you think that a baby has to "respond" to God when he is Baptized??

Did 8-day-old Jewish babies "respond" to God when they were circumcised and entered into the Covenant with God?? A Covenant is a sacred contract - a sacred oath. HOW can an 8-day-old Jewish Babies enter into a sacred contract with God??

Also - since a Baptized baby did NOTHING to inherit the sin he was born into - what makes you think that he should have to "DO" something when that sin is washed away??

Finally - where do you Protestants get your ideas about "Baby Dedications"??

Don't you know that not every baby who was circumcised was Born from Above? Not everyone who passed thru the Red Sea was a Child of God. Or do you think as the Pharisees of Paul's day that anyone who has their foreskin removed has been circumcised in the heart and has God as their Father? No. Neither is everyone who is baptized in water baptized in the Holy Spirit, just as were some of John's disciples who Paul met. They were baptized in water and had still never received the Holy Spirit (Acts 19:2-6).

We get our idea of "Baby Dedications" from 1 Samuel 1:27-28. But we are not saying that every baby we dedicate to the Lord is thereby Born of God! Baby Dedication is not being Born Again. Only Jesus Christ can give the One Baptism of the Holy Spirit. And that is the only Spiritual Birth from God, the One Baptism.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You know you guys can argue as much as you want.
Bible says whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.
That seems to be pretty clear.
Baptism, works etc, being obedient...come as a result of salvation.
All works comes as a result of being born again.
It's not the other way around such as: Do works and later receive salvation as a reward for your works.

Go ahead argue some more fellows. :)

Jesus ALSO makes perfectly clear that NOT everyone who calls on Him will be saved:

Matt. 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ONLY the one who DOES THE WILL of my Father in heaven.


The Bible is clear that true Faith = Belief + Works (James 2:14-26).
BOTH are components of faith. You cannot have one without the other and still call it "Faith."

Read ALL of Scripture in its proper context.
Don't just cherry-pick . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well as long as you're sure I'm wrong ;)

"Water" in John 3:5 isn't baptism. How do I know? Christ hadn't been crucified yet. Baptism for spiritual cleansing/renewal and the New Covenant didn't come into effect until after His resurrection.

What does Mark say here? "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

"Whoever believes" - belief is first; baptism comes after belief. The second part of the verse says whoever doesn't believe will be condemned. Where's the baptism part? Belief is the key.

You have to do more than look at the face value of scripture. If these verses really meant baptism was a requirement for salvation, they directly oppose those who state it isn't. That means closer study is needed.

Again what comes first? Repent. Baptism is always AFTER repentance/belief.
In your verses in Colossians what comes first? vs 10 "you have been filled in him..." He's talking to people who are already saved. Again.

We ALL sin. We all have a sin nature.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned

Please don't use the word retarded. I'm not a big 'pc' person, but surely you can find a better term.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Scripture doesn't say "all have sinned except ...."

Romans 3:10 As it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;

Ecc 7:20 Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.
Scripture identifies only one Person as sinless.

Context.

Nobody said they did.
They do, however, have a sin nature. That's the difference.
Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.

Everything in Psalms isn't figurative.
Baptism isn't required to be saved. Infant baptism has no significance; babies obviously have no clue about salvation.

There is also no salvation by proxy, so they aren't saved because of their parents. Just in case you planned on going there.

NONSENSE.

First of all - the Water in John 3:5 is talking about the water of Baptism.
The first 3 chapters of John's Gospel are literally DRENCHED with the renewing waters of Baptism.

Chapter One - We read about the Baptism of Christ. What do we see? WATER and SPIRIT.
Chapter Two - Jesus turns Water into wine at the Wedding at Cana.
Chapter Three - Jesus tells Nicodemus that in order to be born again, one must be born or Water and Spirit (Baptism).
Right after this, Jesus and the Apostles spend time BAPTIZING people.

As for your comment that we all have a sin nature - you are correct. That doesn't mean that everybody sins.
Infants are incapable of sinning as are the severely retarded who don't have full use of their faculties.

As for Romans 3:10 - you are cherry-picking like MOST anti-Catholics do.
This entire passage refers to Psalm 14 where it says:
Psalm 14:1-3
The fool says in his heart,
“There is no God.”
Their deeds are loathsome and corrupt;
not one does what is good.

This is NOT talking about EVERY person. it is talking about the FOOLISH.
Verse 7 goers on to say:
"They have good reason, then, to fear;
God is with the company of the RIGHTEOUS."

As to your comment that Scripture identifies only one Person as sinless - please show me where it says this.
Chapter and Verse please . . .

Finally - there is NOTHING wrong with the term "mentally retarded". It is a clinical term that is still used by the medical profession. My brother is mentally retarded - so keep your PC opinions about it to yourself.