Scripture is not the last word.

[SovereignGrace]

Here is a biblical basis for it:

Joe 2:28, And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joe 2:29, And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
Joe 2:30, And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
Joe 2:31, The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Joe 2:32, And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

Act 2:16, But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17, And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18, And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Act 2:19, And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20, The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
Act 2:21, And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

I suppose that you are of the opinion that we are no longer in the last days; and that the Spirit is not being poured out.

Note that the passages in question tell us that when His Spirit is poured out, dreams and visions will be the meal of the day.

I said anything outside the closed canon. It wasn’t closed until God closed it in Revelation. So at these times, the canon of scripture wasn’t closed.

 

[justbyfaith]

The Joel 2 passage was fulfilled in Acts of the Apostles 2. You defeated your own stance by using them.

So you are saying that the Holy Spirit was only being poured out in the 1st Century?

When did the Lord stop pouring out of His Spirit on all flesh?

 

[justbyfaith]

I said anything outside the closed canon. It wasn’t closed until God closed it in Revelation. So at these times, the canon of scripture wasn’t closed.

Prophecy is still valid even after the canon of scripture was finished.

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, and today, and for ever. Hebrews 13:8.

1 Thessalonians 5:17-19 tells us that it is quenching the Holy Spirit to despise prophesyings.

If that was not meant for us today, as we read it with our eyes, then you have a problem. How do you determine what is meant for us today in holy scripture, and what is not? It amounts to smorgasborg religion.

 

[tzcho2]

You are in effect calling me a liar...but I am accountable to the Lord for what I am about to say...what I have said to you is true, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost.
Inasmuch as you do something to one of the least of these His brethren, you do it unto Him.
So call me a liar if you wish, I am one of the least of these.
And also, I have no need in my ego to be on a par with apostles Paul and John.

No one has called you a liar. We are calling you spiritually deceived. It is completely common, your experience, I know lots of people prior to my coming to Christianity who thought they had made such "trips" and thought they met who they thought were supernatural beings , or ascended masters etc...

 

[tzcho2]

I've heard several say they have been to heaven and back, and that they take frequent trips there. To challenge these teachings as false they then say you're rejecting God, don't believe, don't believe in the power of God.

I think it is spiritual big time self-deception,some of these people practice meditation & go into a mild suggestive hypnotic trance & think their vivid daydreaming are actual spiritual trips. When people are looking for spiritual experiences the deceiving spirits will take advantage & interact with unprotected gullible people and string them along, it is no different then what the psychics call their guides.

 

[tzcho2]

It remains true that every scribe that is instructed in the kingdom of God will bring out of his treasure things both new and old.

This is saying that new things do come from the minds of those who are faithful; and this is all I am saying.

No, you are twisting the scripture to say what it was not meant to say to match your own beliefs.

 

[justbyfaith]

No, you are twisting the scripture to say what it was not meant to say to match your own beliefs.

I am not.

I am saying that the plain meaning of the scripture in question is that every scribe instructed in the things of the kingdom of heaven will bring forth things both new and old.

Where is the twist? How have I changed what the scripture is saying in that verse?

You have decided that you want to be my enemy for some reason; but the Lord is on my side: He sees what is going on and will judge justly concerning everything.

 

[justbyfaith]

I think it is spiritual big time self-deception,some of these people practice meditation & go into a mild suggestive hypnotic trance & think their vivid daydreaming are actual spiritual trips. When people are looking for spiritual experiences the deceiving spirits will take advantage & interact with unprotected gullible people and string them along, it is no different then what the psychics call their guides.

I don't promote the idea of going into hypnotic trances as do the eastern religions; and neither do I promote the idea of transcendental meditation. However, these things have their counterparts in the word of the Lord. Peter (Acts 10:9-22) went into a trance over being hungry immediately before going to see Cornelius to preach the gospel to him and to his friends. And if you take a wild look at Psalms 1, I think you will see that meditation on the words of the LORD is not forbidden and is even set forth as that which will produce spiritual growth.

And the difference between those who call forth spirits and who are psychics, and us, is that we are not calling on demonic spirits to give us our understanding; no, rather we have received Christ Jesus as Lord, and are relying on the Holy Spirit. We study the Bible and hold to what it says in order that we might not be deceived by doctrines of devils.

No one has called you a liar. We are calling you spiritually deceived. It is completely common, your experience, I know lots of people prior to my coming to Christianity who thought they had made such "trips" and thought they met who they thought were supernatural beings , or ascended masters etc...

I am a born again Christian. I have received Jesus Christ of Nazarteh, who died on the Cross and rose again, as my Lord and Saviour: and I declare to you that He is the Christ, the Son of the living God and that He is come in the flesh. If I am deceived by the Holy Spirit that I received when I had my encounter with the Lord, then the above statements that I declare to you by that Spirit are a deception also.

Be careful; you are treading on dangerous ground. You do not know (although you really should know) whether the Spirit I am speaking of is the Holy Spirit or not. If He is; and if you would dare to call Him a deceiving spirit: then I will leave it up to Jesus to be your judge: but I think that the scripture declares that that is the unpardonable sin.

Are you going to cross that line? I would tread very carefully if I were you.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

I will say unashamedly that I think that I may have been to heaven and back, though my eyes were blinded to what was there.

I say, unashamedly, no, you haven't been there, and say so with full confidence.

That you say it unashamedly is no surprise being your teachings are heretical and you refuse to be corrected by the word of God, having no respect for it.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

@Preacher4Truth...see, I told you. Ppl HAVE to be on par with Apostles Paul and John. If we invalidate his, then we must invalidate theirs.

He's on par with false apostles so he has it partly correct.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

I don't think...

You've never been there, but you will be someday in a sense as all will stand in judgment.

It's funny, those of you and your ilk who refuse the truths of Scripture for your roll of the dice "interpretations."

Each of you go beyond what is written, 1 Corinthians 4:6, and preach false gospels, and want to go way above yourselves, deceiving yourselves; 2 Timothy 3:13 and exalting yourselves as if you're super spiritual (but humble). Sad to behold, but, carry on as I know you will.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

I think it is spiritual big time self-deception,some of these people practice meditation & go into a mild suggestive hypnotic trance & think their vivid daydreaming are actual spiritual trips. When people are looking for spiritual experiences the deceiving spirits will take advantage & interact with unprotected gullible people and string them along, it is no different then what the psychics call their guides.

Although I don't buy they've been on any type of "spiritual journey," not even one akin to The Pilgrim's Progress, if you catch my drift, it needs to be examined biblically. Well, perhaps they are one of the characters in The Pilgrim's Progress. I'd suggest a read of Bunyan Characters to all.

So we must ask, are their teachings true? Is their Gospel understanding true? What does the Scripture then show us concerning those who fail in sound doctrine?

Is it possible that since some of those who reject correction and the word used properly that they would be allowed, providentially, to be deceived by a "spiritual journey?"

Yes, that is possible.

It is also highly possible they've convinced themselves of what they know is not true, which is a severe judgment of self-deception.

Even though being deceived by some "spiritual journey" is possible, I highly doubt any of their myths and fables are true as this seems to be the lot of those who won't endure sound teaching; 2 Timothy 4:1-4, as they prefer myths and fables to the truth and to sound doctrine.

These gather around others who also won't endure sound doctrine, and those who go beyond what is written; 2 Corinthians 4:6 while encouraging one another in their deceptions, and mocking those who hold fast to sound teaching; 2 Timothy 1:13.

The word of God on this site, has been delivered an attempted major blow by some (just look at some of the threads, and those who mock and mitigate Scripture while exalting their own "spirituality" as evidence). But it is of none effect to those who stand firm on the word. Keep standing brother, and brethren! :)

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Here is a...basis for it:

That passage wasn't written to defend your fake experience, it was written to be fulfilled Biblically in Scripture, and that happened at the Day of Penetecost and is recorded in Acts.

 

[tzcho2]

I don't promote the idea of going into hypnotic trances as do the eastern religions; and neither do I promote the idea of transcendental meditation. However, these things have their counterparts in the word of the Lord. Peter (Acts 10:9-22) went into a trance over being hungry immediately before going to see Cornelius to preach the gospel to him and to his friends. And if you take a wild look at Psalms 1, I think you will see that meditation on the words of the LORD is not forbidden and is even set forth as that which will produce spiritual growth.

And the difference between those who call forth spirits and who are psychics, and us, is that we are not calling on demonic spirits to give us our understanding; no, rather we have received Christ Jesus as Lord, and are relying on the Holy Spirit. We study the Bible and hold to what it says in order that we might not be deceived by doctrines of devils.



I am a born again Christian. I have received Jesus Christ of Nazarteh, who died on the Cross and rose again, as my Lord and Saviour: and I declare to you that He is the Christ, the Son of the living God and that He is come in the flesh. If I am deceived by the Holy Spirit that I received when I had my encounter with the Lord, then the above statements that I declare to you by that Spirit are a deception also.

Be careful; you are treading on dangerous ground. You do not know (although you really should know) whether the Spirit I am speaking of is the Holy Spirit or not. If He is; and if you would dare to call Him a deceiving spirit: then I will leave it up to Jesus to be your judge: but I think that the scripture declares that that is the unpardonable sin.

Are you going to cross that line? I would tread very carefully if I were you.

Ya, blame the Holy Spirit for your deception? (sarcasm) Can't Just be --you--, can it? Can't be just the influence of the false teachings that you've been under, or just vain imaginings or deception by other spirits etc either? There is a pink headed lady whose become famous talking about her trips to heaven too.
Funny how those who think they are so specially "chosen" for these special trips or special messages that they receive Outside of the scriptures love to threaten others with punishment from the Holy Spirit -- that is an interesting common thread. Common also is the misrepresentation of using the scriptures out of context and distorting the message.
So is the type of illogical justifications. Like the the rationale -"if you don't believe me then you can't believe Apostle Paul either!"
I don't see Apostle Paul threatening anyone in any of the Epistles accept to those who preach a different Gospel.
The other thing that never occurs to you people is that perhaps it is the Holy Spirit in us that is calling this a deception.

 

[SovereignGrace]

So you are saying that the Holy Spirit was only being poured out in the 1st Century?

When did the Lord stop pouring out of His Spirit on all flesh?

All flesh. Not every person has been indwelt with the Holy Spirit, so that can’t mean everybody whoever lived. He, the Lord, never started pouring His Spirit on all flesh, so He never stopped that which He never started.

Many things happened in Acts of the Apostles that don’t happen today.

Cornelius being visited by an angel.
Dorcas and Eutychus being raised from the dead.
Filled with the Spirit in the upper room with a mighty wind.(we are filled, but not like the experience they had)
Crippled ppl raised and immediately walked.
Angel looses Peter from his chains.
Stephen seeing the Christ standing at the right hand of the Father.
Saul of Tarsus speaking with the Christ.
Peter falling into a trance and eating from a sheet filled with food.
Paul laying hands on ppl and they received the Holy Spirit.
Paul had a vision that he needed to go to Macedonia.
Paul healing ppl just by using some cloths from his body.

These things don’t happen today. Pentecostals and charismatics use these to prop up their horrible teachings.

 

[tzcho2]

I am not.

I am saying that the plain meaning of the scripture in question is that every scribe instructed in the things of the kingdom of heaven will bring forth things both new and old.

Where is the twist? How have I changed what the scripture is saying in that verse?

You have decided that you want to be my enemy for some reason; but the Lord is on my side: He sees what is going on and will judge justly concerning everything.

Again, look at you're own choice of words, your own actions --YOU -- pronouncing me your enemy. Not only that, but you are just this side of wanting to pronounce a curse on me. By their fruit...
The ones who follow the false teachings are cut from the same cloth.
Funny, how all it takes is for us to challenge the misuse of scripture, the spiritual beliefs or the claims of special messages, or trips to heaven and they make threats. We never called anyone our enemies, neither did we threaten them with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Episkopos]

Has anybody noticed that the list of the book of life is not included in the bible?

Could we all agree that God will have the last say on things? (the God mentioned in the bible)

Just sayin'

 

[justbyfaith]

Psa 109:1, [[To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.]] Hold not thy peace, O God of my praise;
Psa 109:2, For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue.
Psa 109:3, They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause.
Psa 109:4, For my love they are my adversaries: but I give myself unto prayer.
Psa 109:5, And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love.

 

[tzcho2]

Psa 109:1, [[To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.]] Hold not thy peace, O God of my praise;
Psa 109:2, For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue.
Psa 109:3, They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause.
Psa 109:4, For my love they are my adversaries: but I give myself unto prayer.
Psa 109:5, And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love.

You're the one who jumps to call others your enemy. Take a look in a mirror.

 

[justbyfaith]

I am blessed.

Mat 5:10, Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:11, Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Mat 5:12, Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Luk 6:22, Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
Luk 6:23, Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

2Ti 3:10, But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
2Ti 3:11, Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
2Ti 3:12, Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
2Ti 3:13, But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.