The Flawed Reasoning Of Total Depravity

[Dave L]

So, when Joshua gave them the choice to serve the Lord or serve other gods, somehow that wasn't a choice for them?

It was a choice about national preservation, not salvation.

 

[Nancy]

Joshua 24:15 Calvinists are impossible.

I guess even in Joshua 24:15 - "choose" does not really "mean" choose...

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes...go to your interlinear....it says everyone believing,the idea is everyone believing and continuing to believe...NO KIDDING

I suppose you are one of those people who thinks that the kjv ain't the Bible...

 

[SovereignGrace]

Freewill is perquisite for responsibility. A person who lack s freewill cannot be held culpable for any actions. Therefore, under Calvinism, Bob (who lacks freewill) cannot be held responsible for being an atheist or sinning -- he has no choice otherwise!

Funny, in all of this not one scripture reference posited, just philosophy. I gave you NUMEROUS vss showing the lost are slaves to sin and you didn’t address even one of them, just gave me a philosophy lesson.

 

[Nancy]

Funny, in all of this not one scripture reference posited, just philosophy. I gave you NUMEROUS vss showing the lost are slaves to sin and you didn’t address even one of them, just gave me a philosophy lesson.

“Sin is not taken into account when there is no law” (Romans 5:13).
The Bible tells us that even people who don’t have the OT Law, have their own “law” — their own moral standard inside their own hearts (Romans 2:14-15). They too must humble themselves before a God who is evident "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." Romans 1:20.
“Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.” (Rom. 3:19-20).
God has given everyone a conscience to bear witness to Who God is: “Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things” (Rom. 2:1-2)
"For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus” (Rom. 2:14-15)."
We are judged by what we know. He is Just.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Funny, in all of this not one scripture reference posited, just philosophy. I gave you NUMEROUS vss showing the lost are slaves to sin and you didn’t address even one of them, just gave me a philosophy lesson.

Yep. That's because their gospel doesn't exist in Scripture, and they're not interested in the least to look at what is offered them from within Scripture.

 

[Phoneman777]

Supposedly it wasn't "choice", just like "all" and "the world" are not really ALL and THE WORLD. The simplicity stumps them Phone.

Guess we'll have to pick up copies of Calvinism's Collegiate Dictionary of Changed Word Defintions LOL

 

[Nancy]

Guess we'll have to pick up copies of Calvinism's Collegiate Dictionary of Changed Word Defintions LOL

Ya might need to hire a lawyer, or a Sadducee to interpret...

 

[Phoneman777]

It was a choice about national preservation, not salvation.

Pretty sure Revelation 22:14 makes it clear about the eternal consequences for obedience to either the one Master or the other.

 

[Phoneman777]

Ya might need to hire a lawyer, or a Sadducee to interpret...

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Funny, in all of this not one scripture reference posited, just philosophy. I gave you NUMEROUS vss showing the lost are slaves to sin and you didn’t address even one of them, just gave me a philosophy lesson.

You said that Calvinist beliefs were completely logical. Therefore, answering a logical question should be easy.
How is Bob supposed to be culpable for being born into a state that he had no control of and has no way to get out of?
Shall he likewise be condemned of being born with two hands and unable to grow a third one?
Or being unable to excise the Y chromosome from his DNA?

 

[Preacher4Truth]

What does that have to do with the indisputable fact that Joshua laid before the entire multitude the choice to either serve the Lord or other gods?

That passage has nothing to do with eternal salvation. It's not "decide yourselves into heaven" because "look at my family, we decided ourselves into heaven."

Furthermore Joshua never once told them in that passage to choose God.

Which gods did he tell them to choose from? Show me where once the god he offered for them to choose from was YHWH, and for eternal salvation.

The fact he was a servant of the LORD showed he was regenerate, it wasn't the cause. No one serves God without first being converted, and, choosing doesn't save, Jesus does.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Yep. That's because their gospel doesn't exist in Scripture, and they're not interested in the least to look at what is offered them from within Scripture.

Rather than stooping to personal insults, would you care to answer the logical question about your beliefs I posted in #711?

 

[Preacher4Truth]

It was a choice about national preservation, not salvation.

Exactly, but "They have never heard it that way afore!" so it can not be true!

It's highly doubtful they'll take any correction from the word; 2 Timothy 3:16, and actually go read the text and see what Joshua really told them to choose from. It had nothing to do with eternal salvation at all.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

I guess even in Joshua 24:15 - "choose" does not really "mean" choose...

Instead of rolling your eyes and making assumptions on the text, you probably would do well to go read the text, real slow, without reading free will choosing one's self into heaven into its context. Right?

 

[Phoneman777]

That passage has nothing to do with eternal salvation. It's not "decide yourselves into heaven" because "look at my family, we decided ourselves into heaven."

Furthermore Joshua never once told them in that passage to choose God.

Which gods did he tell them to choose from? Show me where one he offered for them to choose from was YHWH.

The fact he was a servant of the LORD showed he was regenerate, it wasn't the cause. No one serves God without first being converted, and, choosing doesn't save, Jesus does.

Bound up in our choice to serve either the one God or the other god is the eternal consequence for our choice. Even Lucifer's servants understand this concept. Bob Dylan, who admits he sold his soul to Satan for fame, wrote a song called "Gotta Serve Somebody". That's Joshua's point to the people:

"You don't wanna serve the Lord? Fine, go on and choose whether to serve either of Satan's deceptions on the one side or the other side of the Jordan. But, as for me and my house, we will (choose) serve the Lord."

BTW, no salvation by pronunciation.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Rather than stooping to personal insults, would you care to answer the logical question about your beliefs I posted in #711?

Personal insults? Accurate observations are not an insult. Your accusing me of lying about what others plainly teach on here would be considered an insult, but I'm not taking it personally, it's just another observation of behavior.

And no, I'm not answering a person concerning my beliefs when said have been plainly stated on here, and especially when you dodge and tuck tail when asked yours and other specific questions. This is the second time I've told you this very thing.

 

[Phoneman777]

Freewill is perquisite for responsibility. A person who lack s freewill cannot be held culpable for any actions. Therefore, under Calvinism, Bob (who lacks freewill) cannot be held responsible for being an atheist or sinning -- he has no choice otherwise!

And the only thing Calvinists got in response is "How DARE YOU, the clay, question the Potter???!!!"

 

[Mjh29]

And the only thing Calvinists got in response is "How DARE YOU, the clay, question the Potter???!!!"

ie. Scripture.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

And the only thing Calvinists got in response is "How DARE YOU, the clay, question the Potter???!!!"

You are Romans 9:20 personified, that's sadly a fact.

And? Your above isn't even close to true, you've been given ample Scripture that readily dismantles your worldy philosophy over and over and over. Another sad fact.