The Flawed Reasoning Of Total Depravity

[Phoneman777]

“O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: It is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.” (Jeremiah 10:23)

"...choose ye this day whom ye will serve..." Joshua 24:15
The master we select determines to which that master will direct, whether God's "path of the just" or Satan's perpetual sleep in the dust. Jeremiah 51:39 Jeremiah 51:57

 

[Phoneman777]

There are none, you read it into the text. Man is not saved by choice and you've been given several passages showing this to be true, but you'll have none of it.

You really ought to read your Bible instead of pounding your keyboard to write erroneous posts. Get some godly preacher to assist your understanding for once. You are way off track and don't even know it...

Joshua 24:15 Calvinists are impossible.

 

[Dave L]

"...choose ye this day whom ye will serve..." Joshua 24:15
The master we select determines to which that master will direct, whether God's "path of the just" or Satan's perpetual sleep in the dust. Jeremiah 51:39 Jeremiah 51:57

This was civil law. Not about salvation. It's like Bush saying you are either for us or against us.

 

[Phoneman777]

This was civil law. Not about salvation. It's like Bush saying you are either for us or against us.

A "civil law" which talks about serving "gods"? Yes, that's exactly the same...only different.

 

[Dave L]

A "civil law" which talks about serving "gods"? Yes, that's exactly the same...only different.

They were a theocracy.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Are you kidding me? It is specifically found in verse 16. You think that such an obvious lie would ever be believed by anyone? John 3:16 is one of the most quoted verses in all of scripture.

Yes...go to your interlinear....it says everyone believing,the idea is everyone believing and continuing to believe...NO KIDDING

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

The part where Calvinist logic is inconistant.
Logically: If Bob lacks freewill, then he is not to be blamed for being an atheist or any sins he commits.
If order for Bob to be blamed he must have had freewill. Else it's like blaming a dead body for falling down to gravity.

Bob has self will,his will is not free from his sin nature. He makes choices all the time,sinful choices.

 

[Phoneman777]

They were a theocracy.

Yeah, a theocracy so intact that from it's inception they worshiped a golden calf and just before entering the promised land Balaam helped orchestrate an idolatrous apostasy.

Let's allow the verse to mean what it says: Joshua directed them to choose whether to serve the Lord or the idolatrous gods of the land.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Are you kidding me? It is specifically found in verse 16. You think that such an obvious lie would ever be believed by anyone? John 3:16 is one of the most quoted verses in all of scripture.

One of the most misquoted verses in all of Scripture...

 

[Nancy]

See Ecclesiastes 9:11.

Good verse there JBF

Your inability to discern the plain texts of Scripture which prove the God-given gift of free will choice to humanity is worse than boring - its sweeping many toward a Christ-less grave by convincing them to absolve themselves of their responsibility to choose Christ and turn from sin. So, I'm careful before whom I cast Scripture pearls.

"Your inability to discern the plain texts of Scripture"
Bingo!

 

[Dave L]

Yeah, a theocracy so intact that from it's inception they worshiped a golden calf and just before entering the promised land Balaam helped orchestrate an idolatrous apostasy.

Let's allow the verse to mean what it says: Joshua directed them to choose whether to serve the Lord or the idolatrous gods of the land.

Most were wicked and under the death penalty if they committed treason to the Law. Obedience to the Law was much like today in any western nation.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

What I am trying to show you, Sissy, is this. The lost person is in an unregenerate state. He is alive physically, but dead inwardly. All they have to act upon is their flesh, and the person devoid of the Spirit of God hates God and is at enmity(has an ill-will towards) with God[Romans 8:5-9], and when they are witnessed to via the scriptures, they scoff at them[1 Corinthians 2:14]. It's only at the moment that God quickens them they are given faith and repentance, and are saved. God must do the first part, divine quickening, before they can do theirs, exercise faith and repentance, both given to them as gifts from God.

Freewill is perquisite for responsibility. A person who lack s freewill cannot be held culpable for any actions. Therefore, under Calvinism, Bob (who lacks freewill) cannot be held responsible for being an atheist or sinning -- he has no choice otherwise!

 

[Jane_Doe22]

All you've done above is yet again expose your ignorance of Scripture and of how very consistent Reformed Theology is. That, and the fact you cannot correctly spell "inconsistent." How ironic.

I m discussing logic and the viewpoints. If you have a logical viewpoint, please come discuss it with me. But stooping to personal insults is not logic.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Bob has self will,his will is not free from his sin nature. He makes choices all the time,sinful choices.

And hence Bob cannot be held culpable for being sinful. He never had any option. It would be like blaming a crocodile for being a crocodile.

 

[Dave L]

Freewill is perquisite for responsibility. A person who lack s freewill cannot be held culpable for any actions. Therefore, under Calvinism, Bob (who lacks freewill) cannot be held responsible for being an atheist or sinning -- he has no choice otherwise!

This needs some adjustment. People always choose what they want most. But God directs their steps.

“O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: It is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.” (Jeremiah 10:23)

 

[Phoneman777]

Most were wicked and under the death penalty if they committed treason to the Law. Obedience to the Law was much like today in any western nation.

What does that have to do with the indisputable fact that Joshua laid before the entire multitude the choice to either serve the Lord or other gods?

 

[Dave L]

What does that have to do with the indisputable fact that Joshua laid before the entire multitude the choice to either serve the Lord or other gods?

When the Jews broke civil and religious law they lost their rights and suffered death, exile, and loss. It has nothing to do with salvation.

 

[Phoneman777]

When the Jews broke civil and religious law they lost their rights and suffered death, exile, and loss. It has nothing to do with salvation.

So, when Joshua gave them the choice to serve the Lord or serve other gods, somehow that wasn't a choice for them?

 

[Nancy]

Freewill is perquisite for responsibility. A person who lack s freewill cannot be held culpable for any actions. Therefore, under Calvinism, Bob (who lacks freewill) cannot be held responsible for being an atheist or sinning -- he has no choice otherwise!

Indeed Jane, if they WERE held accountable then it would make God unjust and we know different ;)

 

[Nancy]

What does that have to do with the indisputable fact that Joshua laid before the entire multitude the choice to either serve the Lord or other gods?

Supposedly it wasn't "choice", just like "all" and "the world" are not really ALL and THE WORLD. The simplicity stumps them Phone.