The Gift of Tongues: its General Availability, Purpose, and Power

[marksman]

All believers have the fruits of the Holy Spirit. It is the charismatic gifts that ceased.

if you want to discuss the fruits of the spirit I suggest you start another thread.

 

[marksman]

But the tongues speakers knew what they were saying because they were edified. And Paul says understanding what was said was the basis for edification.

You said the one speaking in tongues gave the interpretation. That is incorrect.

 

[marksman]

You need to consider this. It's pretty serious.

But it has nothing at all to do with your claim that tongues ceased.

 

[marksman]

We prove the gifts have ceased long ago to those who consider scripture above denominationalism.

Whose "we?"

 

[marksman]

Search Voodoo Pentecostalism on the net.

So there is nothing about it in scripture. Just as I thought. Another one your red herrings.

And what is seed character?

 

[marksman]

I am sure many of you have noticed that Dave is like a fish out of water. He has made a claim that tongues ceased and despite being asked numerous times for evidence, he has failed miserably to provide one single scrap of evidence.

His posts so far have been red herrings to avoid answering the question and have been made up stories to try and prove that he is right and everyone else is wrong.

In addition, he goes off at tangents to hide the fact he is out of his depth.

Dave is typical of the secessionist theologians the subject which I am fully conversant about as I studied theology at a Brethren Bible College, but I know enough to say that tongues have ceased is, to put it mildly, tommyrot.

My own experience proves that what he said is wrong. When I was in my early 20s I was a leader of a youth group in the church. Every Friday evening we met for prayer and waiting on God. There I was kneeling on the floor minding my own business and quite out of the blue I started to speak in tongues. I could not do anything about it as it was very clearly a work of the Holy Spirit so I just let it flow.

Tongues ceased to exist? What other jokes do you tell?

 

[Dave L]

So there is nothing about it in scripture. Just as I thought. Another one your red herrings.

And what is seed character?

There is nothing about today's Pentecostalism in scripture either. Unless they are the ones Jesus rejects on the last day.

 

[Dave L]

Whose "we?"

The church in history.

 

[Dave L]

But it has nothing at all to do with your claim that tongues ceased.

You are either babbling or something worse. But it is not speaking in biblical tongues.

 

[Dave L]

You said the one speaking in tongues gave the interpretation. That is incorrect.

No, I said and Paul said in essence, they understood what they were saying.

 

[Dave L]

Can't see where it says tongues will cease.

No apostles = no tongues = ceased.

 

[Berserk]

Dave L: "People said people who spoke in tongues were edified by doing so.

Readers must always remember that you pontificate from ignorance without watching any supportive videos or carefully reading supportive Scriptures, so that a meaningful engagement can occur. So you constantly need correction. In my own case, I was more than edified; I was electrified by ever intensifying wave after wave of liquid love surging through my being. One eyewitness sat in awe because she would later say that my face was glowing in the dark! A Lutheran pastor told me that he was there as a spectator, but didn't believe in speaking in tongues. Yet by simply touching his forehead lightly, he just exploded in other tongues, despite his skepticism. Decades later, the very memory of that day is enough to usher me into a powerful sense of God's presence. If you had the same experience, you would view it as by far the most real, powerful, tender, and loving ecounter with God in your life. I will pray that God will reveal your blasphemy against the Spirit to you, so that you don't suffer the spiritual consequences.

Dave L: "Paul says understanding what is said is what edifies.

Wrong! Paul says, "He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself (14:4)." Paul is referring to private prayer tongues as he is in 14:28.

Dave L: "Yes, because original tongue speakers knew exactly what they were saying...So they knew what they were saying before they interpreted it so others could be edified. This means today's "tongues" are more phony than a $3 Rolex."

Wrong again! Even the tongues speakers don't know what they are saying without an interpreter: "If in a tongue you utter speech that his not intelligible, how will anyone know what is being said (14:9)?"

David L: “And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,” (Acts 8:18)."

I have repeatedly refuted your claim that these Samaritans spoke in tongues. Luke doesn't say they did; if they did, he would say so as is his practice.

David L: “For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end you may be established;” (Romans 1:11)

Here Paul says neither that he has glossolalia in mind nor that he intends to impart spiritual gifts through by laying on hands. He could simply have prayed for them. And you keep ducking the fact (1) that nowhere does Paul say that he had anything to do with the Corinthian glossolalia, which he later hears about through their letter (7:1; cp, 12:1), and (2) that nowhere are we told that Corinthians spoke in tongues through the laying on of hands.​

 

[Dave L]

Dave L: "People said people who spoke in tongues were edified by doing so.

Readers must always remember that you pontificate from ignorance without watching any supportive videos or carefully reading supportive Scriptures, so that a meaningful engagement can occur. So you constantly need correction. In my own case, I was more than edified; I was electrified by ever intensifying wave after wave of liquid love surging through my being. One eyewitness sat in awe because she would later say that my face was glowing in the dark! A Lutheran pastor told me that he was there as a spectator, but didn't believe in speaking in tongues. Yet by simply touching his forehead lightly, he just exploded in other tongues, despite his skepticism. Decades later, the very memory of that day is enough to usher me into a powerful sense of God's presence. If you had the same experience, you would view it as by far the most real, powerful, tender, and loving ecounter with God in your life. I will pray that God will reveal your blasphemy against the Spirit to you, so that you don't suffer the spiritual consequences.

Dave L: "Paul says understanding what is said is what edifies.

Wrong! Paul says, "He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself (14:4)." Paul is referring to private prayer tongues as he is in 14:28.

Dave L: "Yes, because original tongue speakers knew exactly what they were saying...So they knew what they were saying before they interpreted it so others could be edified. This means today's "tongues" are more phony than a $3 Rolex."

Wrong again! Even the tongues speakers don't know what they are saying without an interpreter: "If in a tongue you utter speech that his not intelligible, how will anyone know what is being said (14:9)?"

David L: “And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,” (Acts 8:18)."

I have repeatedly refuted your claim that these Samaritans spoke in tongues. Luke doesn't say they did; if they did, he would say so as is his practice.

David L: “For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end you may be established;” (Romans 1:11)

Here Paul says neither that he has glossolalia in mind nor that he intends to impart spiritual gifts through by laying on hands. He could simply have prayed for them. And you keep ducking the fact (1) that nowhere does Paul say that he had anything to do with the Corinthian glossolalia, which he later hears about through their letter (7:1; cp, 12:1), and (2) that nowhere are we told that Corinthians spoke in tongues through the laying on of hands.​

All of your conjecture is unnecessary. The gifts expired by the time John published Revelation according to scripture. History also confirms this. If the gifts were for today, the Church would have them instead of a couple highly questionable break away sects without any links to historic Christianity.

 

[Berserk]

Dave L,: "All of your conjecture is unnecessary. The gifts expired by the time John published Revelation according to scripture.

What I present is not conjecture, but rather expresses the modern scholarly consensus among New Testament academic scholars, charismatic and non-charismatic alike. By contrast, NO modern scholar accepts your bogus claim that "the gifts expired by the time John published Revelation." None! So your claims can be rightly dismissed as cultic screed. What 1 Corinthians 1:7 and 13:8-12 mean is this--that spiritual gifts will only cease at the Second Coming When we see Christ "face to face." All the Commentaries on 1 Corinthians agree with this. You have been confronted with the reasons for this consensus and have nothing to say in response except mindless repetition of your cultic screed.

Dave L: "History also confirms this. If the gifts were for today, the Church would have them instead of a couple highly questionable break away sects without any links to historic Christianity."

Once again, you expose the sad fact that you are too closed-minded to even read the posted articles that document that ongoing practice pf speaking in tongues in the post-apostolic age. But even if you were right, that would say nothing about the ongoing trutth of God's Word which clearly teaches us to continue seeking the ecstatic spiritual gifts. To use your pathetic argument, we should reject the Protestant doctrine of justification by faith through grace because the Protestant Reformation didn't happen until the 16th century.

 

[Dave L]

Dave L,: "All of your conjecture is unnecessary. The gifts expired by the time John published Revelation according to scripture.

What I present is not conjecture, but rather expresses the modern scholarly consensus among New Testament academic scholars, charismatic and non-charismatic alike. By contrast, NO modern scholar accepts your bogus claim that "the gifts expired by the time John published Revelation." None! So your claims can be rightly dismissed as cultic screed. What 1 Corinthians 1:7 and 13:8-12 mean is this--that spiritual gifts will only cease at the Second Coming When we see Christ "face to face." All the Commentaries on 1 Corinthians agree with this. You have been confronted with the reasons for this consensus and have nothing to say in response except mindless repetition of your cultic screed.

Dave L: "History also confirms this. If the gifts were for today, the Church would have them instead of a couple highly questionable break away sects without any links to historic Christianity."

Once again, you expose the sad fact that you are too closed-minded to even read the posted articles that document that ongoing practice pf speaking in tongues in the post-apostolic age. But even if you were right, that would say nothing about the ongoing trutth of God's Word which clearly teaches us to continue seeking the ecstatic spiritual gifts. To use your pathetic argument, we should reject the Protestant doctrine of justification by faith through grace because the Protestant Reformation didn't happen until the 16th century.

You are claiming the gifts exist when scripture clearly states they do not. The came only in the two outpourings or through an apostle's hands. And they ceased with the apostles. Today's "gifts" are man made or worse. And do nothing when compared to the originals.

 

[marksman]

There is nothing about today's Pentecostalism in scripture either. Unless they are the ones Jesus rejects on the last day.

We are not discussing today's Pentecostalism. Another one of your red herrings.

 

[marksman]

You are claiming the gifts exist when scripture clearly states they do not. The came only in the two outpourings or through an apostle's hands. And they ceased with the apostles. Today's "gifts" are man made or worse. And do nothing when compared to the originals.

So the young man I told you about who saw a hand grow is a joke. I get the feeling the laugh is on you.

 

[marksman]

You are claiming the gifts exist when scripture clearly states they do not. The came only in the two outpourings or through an apostle's hands. And they ceased with the apostles. Today's "gifts" are man made or worse. And do nothing when compared to the originals.

Where in scripture does it say tongues ceased with the apostles?

 

[marksman]

All of your conjecture is unnecessary. The gifts expired by the time John published Revelation according to scripture. History also confirms this. If the gifts were for today, the Church would have them instead of a couple highly questionable break away sects without any links to historic Christianity.

What scripture?

What history?

The church does have them all over the world.

The Anglican church is not a sect.

 

[Dave L]

Where in scripture does it say tongues ceased with the apostles?

The gifts only came during the two outpourings or through an apostle's hands. = no apostles since the end of the first century = no gifts today