Atheist objections to evidence for God's existence

[Taken]

I found great synonyms for "evidence" on the new Thesaurus.com!

I found great synonyms for "proof" on the new Thesaurus.com!

They are not synonymous.

Synonyms and Antonyms of proof
something presented in support of the truth or accuracy of a claim

• she presented proof that she had not cheated

Synonyms of proof
attestation, confirmation, corroboration,documentation, evidence, substantiation,testament, testimonial, testimony,validation, voucher, witness

Merriam-Webster.com

This is nonsense

No, it is not nonsense.
It is simply you choosing one SOURCE, and I having chosen another SOURCE.

I absolutely get to be the judge My point is that I don't get to choose my beliefs

Very clear. You get to be the JUDGE of what you believe; but you do not get to CHOOSE your beliefs. Okie Dokie.

neither so you.

Uh...NO....YOU DO NOT HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DICTATE WHETHER OR NOT I CHOOSE MY OWN BELIEFS!!!

I would present scientific evidence that the moon is not made from cheese etc. You could say that it is not sufficient but you know that you would not believe that, you would be lying.

HELLO - The MOON is Not the topic!
It is a deflection from the topic.

I have NO evidence whatsoever of WHAT the MOON is made of ... NOR CARE.

I KNOW the PURPOSE of the MOON.
I KNOW the MOON has NO SUBSTANCE to PRODUCE LIGHT.
WHAT the MOON "IS" "made of", is NOT something that IS relevant to this OP, nor is it something that YOU have deflected to CLAIMING WHAT THE MOON "IS" made of.

You simply deflected the OP to an Obscure NEGATIVE challenge, of WHAT the MOON is "NOT" Made of.... I Don't care what the MOON is NOT made of!! It is IRRELEVANT to the OP.

I think we have spent MORE than ample time on Circular WORD PLAY...

You have made yourself CLEAR....
YOU DO NOT CHOOSE WHAT YOU BELIEVE.

You have made yourself CLEAR....
YOU DO NOT have "sufficient evidence" to Believe God Exists...
YOU THEREFORE "DO NOT KNOW" IF God Exists....
and it has NOTHING to do with your belief!


And Further....
YOU think you can DICTATE, "I do not Choose my own beliefs" <---- FALSE, no you do not have ANY authority to dictate my beliefs.

This is just saying that you have no other explanation for why these things exist so it must be a god that did it.

And Further...
YOU think you can MAKE CLAIMS FOR ME, when I HAVE MADE, NO such claim for myself? I gave you NO such authority to speak FOR ME, things that are FALSE.

That is not convincing for me. Emotion and feelings are not a good way to determine truth.

So?
You are NOT convinced of Gods Existance. WHAT ABOUT IT?

WHAT is YOUR "PURPOSE" "REASONING" TO SHARE WITH Believers, YOU are NOT convinced of Gods Existence?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Based on the evidence I knew at the time. Emotions, some philosophical arguments, dreams, prayer, eyewitness accounts of the resurrection, bible study, I thought I heard from God in prayer, etc.

Okay.

And? Then? You apparently gained "ADDITIONAL EVIDENCE", to convince you, to
DO WHAT?

Get to the POINT ~

WHAT About...
The evidence you ONCE relied upon?
WHAT About...
Your Additionally Discovered Evidence?

Does your OLD and NEW Evidences CONFLICT?

Have YOU Disgarded your OLD Evidence and replaced it with YOUR New Evidence?

Are YOU Conflicted, in TRYING to Believe Both, the OLD and the NEW?

Are YOU Conflicted, in NOT KNOWING which TO BELIEVE?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

The absence of life anywhere else is apparently the de facto proof for most scientists? although no scientist is really saying as much, there a few coming close--you kind of have to read between the lines there. Obviously I guess "we're looking for proof that God doesn't exist" doesn't make for the best grant title. Can't see how they could pull it off, but wouldn't surprise me any if life was "discovered" somewhere...right about the time the $ finishes crashing, what, 6-8 years maybe? They'd have to set up a JSmith/Moroni thing somehow I guess

Some Scientists DO dabble in the "therefore Negative", as a Conclusion something is "therefore Positively" non-existant.

IOW - If something can not be PROVED with EVIDENCE of it being a POSITIVE EXISTENCE, it is "therefore" concluded, (by some Scientists) it does NOT exist.

God can not BE SEEN.
God can not BE HEARD.
God can not BE SMELLED.
God can not BE TOUCHED.
God can not BE TASTED.

There is NO Scientific TEST, for mankind to PRODUCE POSITIVE EVIDENCE, for a man TO, see, hear, smell, touch, taste God.

Men can ACCEPT the "RESULTS" of "WHAT" they "experience" Personally.

Men can ACCEPT the "RESULTS" of "WHAT" Other men CLAIM, "or not".

And All men can CHOOSE their own Beliefs.

(Except ofcourse for Vince. He adamently proclaims he can NOT make his own choice of Belief.)

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

(Except ofcourse for Vince. He adamently proclaims he can NOT make his own choice of Belief

hmm. You have me in a weird position here Taken; imo Vince is in much better shape than most believers, even if he is, might still be in some denial. But I would like to give you an opp to demonstrate your "all men can choose their own beliefs," to yourself I mean, as I guess it isn't too hard to figure out that you could no more "choose" to be a satanist right now than you have chosen to be a Mithraist.

I'm not sure how you might do this yet, this demonstration, but something will come to me if I ask, or maybe if you do, too? First I guess we should briefly verify that you do expect and believe that you will go up to heaven after you have died, right? And/or that if you keep looking up long enough, you will certainly see Jesus literally Returning in the sky above your head someday? ty

 

[Taken]

hmm. You have me in a weird position here Taken; imo Vince is in much better shape than most believers, even if he is, might still be in some denial. But I would like to give you an opp to demonstrate your "all men can choose their own beliefs," to yourself I mean, as I guess it isn't too hard to figure out that you could no more "choose" to be a satanist right now than you have chosen to be a Mithraist.

While you may believe Vince is in much better shape than most believers...

I find nothing about his current "shape" as an ideal model for one to desire to compare themselves to....

Vince is on a trip of Word Play via Semantics.

He had evidence of Gods existance, and therefore USED to believe in God, and Identified from where he obtained "THAT" evidence.

Then he acquired additional evidence (from where, he failed to Identify), and NOW, he does not KNOW if his original evidence is sufficient to Continue Believing Gods Exists.

I already pointed out, men gather information from Numerous sources. The information may be sufficient for the individual to believe or not.

It doesn't really matter what the individual wants to CALL the information;
Facts, evidence, proof, plausible, etc...

And I already pointed out Information given is precisely designed to INFLUENCE anyone hearing the Information, to CONSIDER the information as FACT, evidence, proof, plausible, etc.

And thereafter the Individual has the authority to BELIEVE it or NOT.

(Except Vince, who adamently announces he can not choose his own belief.)

Why Vince is here on this forum? I don't know, except to announce He does not KNOW if God exists. Okay. How many times does that require announcing?
So what does he WANT Converted Christians to do about "HIS" inability to "KNOW" if God Exists? I have no clue. I simply see him here to play word games and apparently wanting to know IF any Converted Christians think the moon is or is not made of Cheese.

I'm not sure how you might do this yet, this demonstration, but something will come to me if I ask, or maybe if you do, too?

First I guess we should briefly verify that you do expect and believe that you will go up to heaven after you have died, right?

Not precisely.
"I" identify myself as ONE man kind of thing.

However I also identify myself as THREE things, that makeup the WHOLE ONE kind of man kind of thing, that I am.

Each of the THREE things, have MY SAME NAME.

Each of the THREE things, are specifically called; My body, My soul, My spirit.

Each of the THREE things, have LIFE.
My body's life is Blood.
My soul's life is Gods Breath.
My spirit's life is Gods Seed.

My body is visible for other men to see.
My soul is NOT visible for other men to see.
My spirit is NOT visible for other men to see.

WHEN the life of my BODY, dies, my Body, shall be buried, or cremated, or who knows, be dumped in a field.
It shall return to DUST from whence it came.
MY BODY DID NOT come down from Heaven.
MY BODY shall therefore NOT return or go to Heaven.

MY soul came from Gods Breath.
My soul has become SAVED unto the Lord God.
God is IN Heaven, and therefore MY Saved soul SHALL "return" to Heaven, to God, from whence it came....WHEN My Body physically dies.

MY spirit came from Gods SEED;
Gods POWER cause my natural spirit from a natural seed; to become Born Again from Gods SEED.
Thus MY Born Again spirit, SHALL "GO" to Heaven, TO God...WHEN MY Body physically dies.

So in BRIEF...
My body never goes to Heaven.
My soul shall return to Heaven, when my body dies.
My spirit shall go to Heaven, when my body physically dies.

And/or that if you keep looking up long enough, you will certainly see Jesus literally Returning in the sky above your head someday? ty

No. I do believe there will be (Corrected....Members of Christs Church) men ON earth looking UP and SEE, "the Son of Man" returning to Earth.

I do not expect to be ON EARTH LOOKING UP, to SEE "the Son of Man" returning to Earth.

I EXPECT to "SEE" "MY Lord and Savior" Returning to Earth from a different VIEW point, than me BEING on Earth LOOKING UP.

My view point of seeing the Lord return to Earth, is I shall be WITH the Lord, NOT below the Lord, Looking up.

The KeY word is SEEING the Lord when He returns to Earth.
IOW, yes I will SEE the Lord returning to Earth, but I will not BE ON THE EARTH....
I will be WITH HIM, (body, soul & spirit)....

And BTW, those ON Earth, looking UP to see Him shall be "WAILING"...

Wailing is a CRY of PAIN....GRIEF...& ANGER.

So no, I shall not be ON earth, looking up (when the Lord Returns to Earth) and wailing in a cry of pain, grief or anger.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

While you may believe Vince is in much better shape than most believers...

I find nothing about his current "shape" as an ideal model for one to desire to compare themselves to....

Vince is on a trip of Word Play via Semantics.

He had evidence of Gods existance, and therefore USED to believe in God, and Identified from where he obtained "THAT" evidence.

Then he acquired additional evidence (from where, he failed to Identify), and NOW, he does not KNOW if his original evidence is sufficient to Continue Believing Gods Exists.

I already pointed out, men gather information from Numerous sources. The information may be sufficient for the individual to believe or not.

It doesn't really matter what the individual wants to CALL the information;
Facts, evidence, proof, plausible, etc...

And I already pointed out Information given is precisely designed to INFLUENCE anyone hearing the Information, to CONSIDER the information as FACT, evidence, proof, plausible, etc.

And thereafter the Individual has the authority to BELIEVE it or NOT.

(Except Vince, who adamently announces he can not choose his own belief.)

Why Vince is here on this forum? I don't know, except to announce He does not KNOW if God exists. Okay. How many times does that require announcing?
So what does he WANT Converted Christians to do about "HIS" inability to "KNOW" if God Exists? I have no clue. I simply see him here to play word games and apparently wanting to know IF any Converted Christians think the moon is or is not made of Cheese.





Not precisely.
"I" identify myself as ONE man kind of thing.

However I also identify myself as THREE things, that makeup the WHOLE ONE kind of man kind of thing, that I am.

Each of the THREE things, have MY SAME NAME.

Each of the THREE things, are specifically called; My body, My soul, My spirit.

Each of the THREE things, have LIFE.
My body's life is Blood.
My soul's life is Gods Breath.
My spirit's life is Gods Seed.

My body is visible for other men to see.
My soul is NOT visible for other men to see.
My spirit is NOT visible for other men to see.

WHEN the life of my BODY, dies, my Body, shall be buried, or cremated, or who knows, be dumped in a field.
It shall return to DUST from whence it came.
MY BODY DID NOT come down from Heaven.
MY BODY shall therefore NOT return or go to Heaven.

MY soul came from Gods Breath.
My soul has become SAVED unto the Lord God.
God is IN Heaven, and therefore MY Saved soul SHALL "return" to Heaven, to God, from whence it came....WHEN My Body physically dies.

MY spirit came from Gods SEED;
Gods POWER cause my natural spirit from a natural seed; to become Born Again from Gods SEED.
Thus MY Born Again spirit, SHALL "GO" to Heaven, TO God...WHEN MY Body physically dies.

So in BRIEF...
My body never goes to Heaven.
My soul shall return to Heaven, when my body dies.
My spirit shall go to Heaven, when my body physically dies.



No. I do believe there will be men ON earth looking UP and SEE, "the Son of Man" returning to Earth.

I do not expect to be ON EARTH LOOKING UP, to SEE "the Son of Man" returning to Earth.

I EXPECT to "SEE" "MY Lord and Savior" Returning to Earth from a different VIEW point, than me BEING on Earth LOOKING UP.

My view point of seeing the Lord return to Earth, is I shall be WITH the Lord, NOT below the Lord, Looking up.

The KeY word is SEEING the Lord when He returns to Earth.
IOW, yes I will SEE the Lord returning to Earth, but I will not BE ON THE EARTH....
I will be WITH HIM, (body, soul & spirit)....

And BTW, those ON Earth, looking UP to see Him shall be "WAILING"...

Wailing is a CRY of PAIN....GRIEF...& ANGER.

So no, I shall not be ON earth, looking up (when the Lord Returns to Earth) and wailing in a cry of pain, grief or anger.

Glory to God,
Taken

tl; dr
sorry

 

[bbyrd009]

My view point of seeing the Lord return to Earth

Return to Me, and I will return to you

 

[brakelite]

"
יון II
The unused and assumed root יון (ywn II) yields a word that's much more common in the Bible: the feminine noun יונה (yona), meaning dove or pigeon (Leviticus 1:14, Isaiah 38:14).

Perhaps the flight of the dove — rather erratic and not very vigorous — reminded the Hebrew poets of the course of a drunken person, and in turn of the mire in which no foothold is found. When Noah released a dove from the Ark, she found no foothold (Genesis 8:9). The prophet Hosea likened Ephraim to a silly dove (Hosea 7:11) because Ephraim ran after Egypt, then after Assyria. Even the prophet Jonah (whose name is identical to the word יונה, yona, meaning dove) vacillated between Tarshish and Nineveh after God had called him (Jonah 1:2-3).

Solomon likened the eyes of the bride with doves (Song of Solomon 1:15), and that is remarkable because Jesus besmirched the eyes of the blind man with mud (JOHN 9:6). In addition Paul writes that God's works can be clearly understood by what can be seen (ROMANS 1:20). By Law of Moses, people who could not afford a lamb were allowed to offer two doves for purification (Leviticus 5:7).

But the grand finale of this word יונה (yona) is the descension of the Holy Spirit upon Jesus; in the form of a dove (MATTHEW 3:16).

The functions of the Holy Spirit are legion of course but possibly he chose the appearance of a dove to indicate that God brings people together by their weaknesses and not by their strengths, and the fabric of Truth is uncertainty, contrary to deterministic certainty. The mind of Christ is not about knowing all things down to the minutest facts, but being alive in a whole new way. Being able to waver is a quality of life; lifeless objects travel by straight, predictable lines..." Wine in the Bible: wine and the mind

Could I be so bold as to suggest that a far simpler way of saying all the above is...there is no greater perfect understanding of truth than the admission that we have no great understanding of truth?

 

[bbyrd009]

Could I be so bold as to suggest that a far simpler way of saying all the above is...there is no greater perfect understanding of truth than the admission that we have no great understanding of truth?

Nice imo, I mostly posted that for the reflection of Jonah as Dove

 

[Taken]

Return to Me, and I will return to you

And? What about that?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Berserk]

7 ESSENTIAL QUESTIONS FOR VINCE AND OTHER ATHEISTS

(1) Why are you an atheist instead of an agnostic?
(2) If your skepticism were wrong, what evidence do you have that discovery of your error is your highest priority?
(3) How do you know whether or not there are other types of evidence for God than the evidence you are willing to consider?
(4) What type of paranormal evidence would you accept for God's existence?
(5) If you could be convinced that there is life after death, would that convince you that there is a God?
(6) If you could be convinced that Jesus' resurrection appearances can be traced back to eyewitness testimony, would that convince you that there is a God?
(7) If Christ made Himself real to your subjective satisfaction, would you commit your life to His service?

 

[bbyrd009]

And? What about that?

Glory to God,
Taken

Return to Me, and I will return to you

ah, that is what you find when you go searching for exegesis of a Return :)

 

[Taken]

ah, that is what you find when you go searching for exegesis of a Return :)

Scripture does not teach to go SEARCHING for:
an EXPLANATION...
an INTERPRETATION...
The UNDERSTANDING...
Of Scripture.... IN Scripture

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[OzSpen]

Scripture does not teach to go SEARCHING for:
an EXPLANATION...
an INTERPRETATION...
The UNDERSTANDING...
Of Scripture.... IN Scripture

Glory to God,
Taken

Taken,

Are you stating that for the unbelievers, the Scriptures don't teach they should seek for an explanation & understanding of God's existence?

I'd appreciate your clarification on this matter.

Oz

 

[Taken]

Taken,

Are you stating that for the unbelievers, the Scriptures don't teach they should seek for an explanation & understanding of God's existence?

I'd appreciate your clarification on this matter.

Oz

Scripture is for Knowledge and Information.

The Knowledge/Information is taught is Truth and Trustworthy.

The Knowledge/Information is taught to Verify Scripture with Scripture.

The Verifying Scripture with Scripture is taught to Reason it is Trustworthy by the multiple Verifiable Accounts.

The Interpretation/ Explanation OF the Knowledge/Information IS what men want FOR the Purpose of "UNDERSTANDING" the Knowledge/Information.

Absolutely, MEN, (can AND do AND some TEACH) with their BRAINS/MIND TO think, deduce, weigh, logically conclude WHAT THEIR MIND believes the Knowledge/Information MEANS...

However Scripture teaches;
The Carnal Mind is Against God
A mans Understanding is but foolishness to God.

^^ IOW, when a man Attempts to INTERPRET, Decide the Understanding of the Knowledge/Information OF Scripture...

IT IS A FAIL, Against God, Foolishness.

The UNDERSTANDING of the interpretation, the meaning, OF SCRIPTURE, is ONLY Known BY God ...
And ONLY given to a man BY THEE Lord God.
And ONLY given to a man THAT, is IN Standing WITH thee Lord God.

It is Gods Word, and WHO is more qualified than God Himself, to DEFINE the meaning and understanding of His own Word?

The Understanding being WITHHELD, FROM, Satan, fallen angels, anti-Christs, anti-God, IS THEIR Biggest Complaint....
IOw - People who do NOT believe...WANT and will question, for Explanations, Proof, Understanding....that they have determined they require, BEFORE, they would CONSIDER Believing....and It ain't going to happen, that they can UNDERSTAND, BEFORE Belief.
And why, they can hear, read, even memorize the Scriptures, looking, searching FOR understanding IN the Scriptures....Isn't there.

Scriptures are Knowledge and Information...
Anyone can Believe it ... OR NOT.

If you need the references, that Understanding Comes from the Lord God let me know.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

Taken,

Are you stating that for the unbelievers, the Scriptures don't teach they should seek for an explanation & understanding of God's existence?

I'd appreciate your clarification on this matter.

Oz

I'm not quite sure how to tie this in with our discussion on Hitler, maybe you have a good bridge for us now? :)

 

[bbyrd009]

Scripture does not teach to go SEARCHING for:
an EXPLANATION...
an INTERPRETATION...
The UNDERSTANDING...
Of Scripture.... IN Scripture

Glory to God,
Taken

Ya, let's let this guy post in the Christian section, and exclude others


no offense meant Taken, a comment on the excluding ok

 

[Taken]

Ya, let's let this guy post in the Christian section, and exclude others


no offense meant Taken, a comment on the excluding ok

The Saved don't need saving.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[OzSpen]

The UNDERSTANDING of the interpretation, the meaning, OF SCRIPTURE, is ONLY Known BY God....It is Gods (sic) Word, and WHO is more qualified than God Himself, to DEFINE the meaning and understanding of His own Word?

Taken,

Since that is your view, what is God's understanding of 1 Timothy 2:15 (ESV): 'Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control'?

Oz

 

[Taken]

Taken,

Since that is your view,

Yes. It MY VIEW that thee Lord God gives us His Understanding of His Word.

Yes. I base MY VIEW on Scripture.

Matt 16

[15] He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
[16] And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
[17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but (BY) my Father which is in heaven.

Luke 24

[45] Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

THEN, I asked you a question...

It is Gods Word, and (WHO is more qualified than God Himself, to DEFINE the meaning and understanding of His own Word?)

And...Your answer was?

Oh, you didn't answer.

You went on to childbearing of a woman and asked me a question.

Dilemma.

Should I wait for your answer, before addressing your question on an unrelated topic.... humm

What do you think?

Your question;

what is God's understanding of 1 Timothy 2:15 (ESV): 'Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control'?
Oz

Glory to God,
Taken