Atheist objections to evidence for God's existence

[OzSpen]

I don't know how the world came into being. I don't have good evidence for any conclusion at this time.

Not 'good evidence' that you accept.

 

[bbyrd009]

Teh first christian believed god existed in some way whether spirit of physical.

so you say,
but I would be examining your premises there fwiw ok
after all, how do you know what they believed?

How would you know what any evidence of God looked like?
What is your criteria there?
Pretty sure you already dismissed the Whisper I bet, huh?
just guessing now, but you strike me as that kind of guy?

I do not believe this is reasonable based on the evidence.

i completely agree

You believe a God in some form is real, correct?

well, see...I would like to say Yes there, but I doubt we are going to agree on the "form" or the "real" definitions, which...indicate to me that you are still um where you started, let's say. Nothing wrong with that either, ok?
But I would mos def say that God in any "form" is not real, tho I'm sure you'll get diff opinions there, you should really be talking to believers anyway I guess

I know this answer prolly won't serve you right now, but God in no-form is unreal (the faster you go the shorter you get, and the longer you live/"exist", etc; Einstein iow), by which I mean more real, to us who cannot discern real anyway. You wanna act or talk like you know what is real, fine with me, ok, but I am not that guy anymore.

I have no idea what will happen next and that's the way I like it, all the gods I know have fallen already, and I would run from any evidence of God's "existence" now, which would be false anyway.

Understand the sign of Jonah, if you will.

You want something, right? You are lacking something?
Other than "proof of the existence of God" I mean?
Can you say what that is?

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Atheists don't have a point of view on giving they only have a lack of belief in god. The only thing that atheists have in common is a common lack of belief in gods. There are plenty of atheists out there doing good without anyone knowing about them.

Good for you. Atheists do the same.

Name them please.

This has nothing to do with atheism. Like I said atheists believe a lot of different things, the only thing we share is a lack of belief in gods.

Maybe to your god but not to the people they help or as you call them pets.

Problem is that with everything is that their are 6 sides to a subject one could say and one is front elevation etc and Plan and a Christian can understand all sides and the plan, so they are not just refusing to see things like the ignorance of an atheist does.

The point is that you do not really have a clue what you are talking about as to atheism really, but a Christian understands truly what the atheist is all about, atheist claim things that are clearly seen by the Christian and we understand Atheist totally you know, it's not an enigma you know as such, is just truly only simple is as simple does.

No Christian sits about pondering what Atheism is all about.

An atheist is a slave to their own works and ego, not to mention ignorant to Sin, it's called mans works that they abide in and that is of Satan, they are in common led away from God and are abiding in and under Satan. so they do follow idols and make gods out of such things because they worship them or hold them in great esteem.
Look at all the fools nowadays that idolise singers etc and look up to great people in the wrong way, this is idolatry and atheist does it in fact, as I see the proof of such all the time and I think what a total blinded fool that they are, imbeciles !

(Good for you atheists do the same.) No they don't truth be known and I know where you are coming from but it's not the same at all.

Name them ? All of them !

The people they think that they are helping is only what's called mans works religion and does not always cut it as to God or misses the mark so to speak, you idolise their works because you do not fathom that their is a bigger picture in all this.

I had a mate that got into drugs and selling the crap and when I confronted the moron about this, he stood their in a rage fist closed ready to fight me and yelled out that he was helping them and he truly believed that
It's the same with atheist because they are blinded to reality, why do you think that all them fools followed Hitler's Nazis or any Communist moron or Dictators, now surly they all thought that they were doing the correct thing, don't you think ? or do you think that they were thinking, Oh we are doing the wrong thing ?

Once one is truly born again, then you can see that everything that is not in Jesus Christ, is a fraud as it's lacking in true worthiness and only will end up enslaving peoples Souls.

Satan is not a bad man to a carnal man because he abides in Satan due to the Stain of Original Sin and that's why people are such fools who are led astray by morons who tempt them, Satan is a tempter ! that's the nature of such. not evil ? but such temptations will lead to evil. not to mention the hellfire to be payed for such Sin and remember you reap what you sow.

So just because you think that you are doing good, does not mean such is indeed a fact.

 

[Deborah_]

This is not what that verse says. It says that what we hope for such as heaven we should be confident in that it says nothing about any evidence. Should we believe things that we cannot see such as the tooth fairy? This verse says nothing about any reason to believe just that you should believe.

If I am confident enough that Bigfoot exists does that make it true? If I assure myself that Bigfoot exists is it true? I can believe anything with faith and it is not a good tool for determining truth.

We believe in lots of things that we can't see: gravity, electrons, love... Being able to see something is not the acid test of its reality.

And no, simply believing in something doesn't make it true. (If only...) My faith in God doesn't make Him exist; if He doesn't exist, then I am wrong. I don't have proof of His existence (there is none), but I do have evidence on which I base my faith. (That evidence is things that have happened to me, which I realise wouldn't cut any ice with you).

The verse says nothing about the reasons for believing. If read in context, we see that the writer is actually interested in the outcome of believing.

 

[Vince]

Not 'good evidence' that you accept.

If it was good evidence I would accept it. You think that we can choose our beliefs or choose to accept evidence. That is untrue. We either are convinced by it or we are not. "Look at the trees" is not evidence of god as the bible seems to believe.

 

[Vince]

so you say,
but I would be examining your premises there fwiw ok
after all, how do you know what they believed?

I don't I am going by what most Christians believe now and what I used to believe. The bible is clear to me that they believed god existed. If you don't think so ok.

How would you know what any evidence of God looked like?
What is your criteria there?
Pretty sure you already dismissed the Whisper I bet, huh?
just guessing now, but you strike me as that kind of guy?

i completely agree
well, see...I would like to say Yes there, but I doubt we are going to agree on the "form" or the "real" definitions, which...indicate to me that you are still um where you started, let's say. Nothing wrong with that either, ok?
But I would mos def say that God in any "form" is not real, tho I'm sure you'll get diff opinions there, you should really be talking to believers anyway I guess

I know this answer prolly won't serve you right now, but God in no-form is unreal (the faster you go the shorter you get, and the longer you live/"exist", etc; Einstein iow), by which I mean more real, to us who cannot discern real anyway. You wanna act or talk like you know what is real, fine with me, ok, but I am not that guy anymore.

I have no idea what will happen next and that's the way I like it, all the gods I know have fallen already, and I would run from any evidence of God's "existence" now, which would be false anyway.

Understand the sign of Jonah, if you will.

You want something, right? You are lacking something?
Other than "proof of the existence of God" I mean?
Can you say what that is?

I don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Vince]

Problem is that with everything is that their are 6 sides to a subject one could say and one is front elevation etc and Plan and a Christian can understand all sides and the plan, so they are not just refusing to see things like the ignorance of an atheist does.

The point is that you do not really have a clue what you are talking about as to atheism really, but a Christian understands truly what the atheist is all about, atheist claim things that are clearly seen by the Christian and we understand Atheist totally you know, it's not an enigma you know as such, is just truly only simple is as simple does.

No Christian sits about pondering what Atheism is all about.

An atheist is a slave to their own works and ego, not to mention ignorant to Sin, it's called mans works that they abide in and that is of Satan, they are in common led away from God and are abiding in and under Satan. so they do follow idols and make gods out of such things because they worship them or hold them in great esteem.
Look at all the fools nowadays that idolise singers etc and look up to great people in the wrong way, this is idolatry and atheist does it in fact, as I see the proof of such all the time and I think what a total blinded fool that they are, imbeciles !

(Good for you atheists do the same.) No they don't truth be known and I know where you are coming from but it's not the same at all.

Name them ? All of them !

The people they think that they are helping is only what's called mans works religion and does not always cut it as to God or misses the mark so to speak, you idolise their works because you do not fathom that their is a bigger picture in all this.

I had a mate that got into drugs and selling the crap and when I confronted the moron about this, he stood their in a rage fist closed ready to fight me and yelled out that he was helping them and he truly believed that
It's the same with atheist because they are blinded to reality, why do you think that all them fools followed Hitler's Nazis or any Communist moron or Dictators, now surly they all thought that they were doing the correct thing, don't you think ? or do you think that they were thinking, Oh we are doing the wrong thing ?

Once one is truly born again, then you can see that everything that is not in Jesus Christ, is a fraud as it's lacking in true worthiness and only will end up enslaving peoples Souls.

Satan is not a bad man to a carnal man because he abides in Satan due to the Stain of Original Sin and that's why people are such fools who are led astray by morons who tempt them, Satan is a tempter ! that's the nature of such. not evil ? but such temptations will lead to evil. not to mention the hellfire to be payed for such Sin and remember you reap what you sow.

So just because you think that you are doing good, does not mean such is indeed a fact.

If you and your god think feeding the hungry, taking care of the homeless, getting people healthcare they cannot afford, stopping trafficking, saving peoples lives by operations and medical care, protecting innocent people, standing up for people who have no power, fighting racism, taking people in that are homeless etc. etc. are filthy rags and are not good things to do because I don't believe he exists, then he is immoral. Because non believers do all of these things. Would you rather have an atheist surgeon operating on you or Benny Hinn? So you and your god can call us imbeciles and fools but I will keep helping people just the same because I have empathy and compassion for others.

 

[Vince]

We believe in lots of things that we can't see: gravity, electrons, love... Being able to see something is not the acid test of its reality.

The difference being electrons and gravity have been demonstrated to be true with a lot of evidence. Repeatable experiments verify the existence of gravity and electrons and we use this information to advance technology and understanding. Same with love. I believe my wife loves me because she has demonstrated this over the last 24 years that I have known her. This is not so with the god claim.

And no, simply believing in something doesn't make it true. (If only...) My faith in God doesn't make Him exist; if He doesn't exist, then I am wrong. I don't have proof of His existence (there is none), but I do have evidence on which I base my faith. (That evidence is things that have happened to me, which I realise wouldn't cut any ice with you).

I did not say that. I said that your bible says to believe what you hope for. That means you can believe anything you want. I agree that does not make anything real.

The verse says nothing about the reasons for believing. If read in context, we see that the writer is actually interested in the outcome of believing.

If so, then why do you believe?

 

[Vince]

Well, thank you for the graciously written reply ♥
And, I have not seen you ever saying that God does not exist, I only see you stating about evidence.
And, if I said anything in my reply that was unkind I am very sorry I was kind of mad at ya when I wrote it!! LOL. Not anymore though! :)
You have a good evening.
nancy

Thanks, Have a great day!

 

[Deborah_]

The difference being electrons and gravity have been demonstrated to be true with a lot of evidence. Repeatable experiments verify the existence of gravity and electrons and we use this information to advance technology and understanding. Same with love. I believe my wife loves me because she has demonstrated this over the last 24 years that I have known her. This is not so with the god claim.

This was a response to your statement, "Should we believe things that we cannot see such as the tooth fairy?" The fact that the tooth fairy is invisible is really not relevant; we have other reasons for not believing in a real tooth fairy. Similarly, the fact that God is not visible is irrelevant to His reality (or otherwise). There are all kinds of reasons other than sight for believing in things, as you have helpfully pointed out.

I said that your bible says to believe what you hope for. That means you can believe anything you want.

No, it doesn't. What Christians "hope for" isn't absolutely anything we want (that would be madness), but what God has promised us, which is eternal life.

If so, then why do you believe?

I believe in God because He has changed my life.

 

[Taken]

Ok, I don't believe that facts are true for one person and not for another. Facts are true whether anyone thinks they are or not. But I understand what you are saying.

I am breaking this post up into segments in response to you..

Let me expound ~
ALL Scripture is TRUE, thus FACTUAL.
ALL Scripture has FACTUAL APPLICATION to ALL People.
However NOT ALL SCRIPTURE APPLIES to EVERY INDIVIDUAL Person.

I disagree. No one chooses what they believe. They are either convinced or not based on the information they have.

Semantics. Doesn't matter BY what INFLUENCE a person Chooses. THEY are the Authority to make their own Choices.

Could you choose to believe the moon is made of cheese?

Irrelevant argument.
I could give a kid a piece of paper, a piece of bologna, a piece of cheese, a hand full of spaghetti and say make a picture of a farmstead in the evening.... Think the cheese could be used for the MOON?
And if I said to the kid, eat the moon, would he be eating CHEESE?

Perspective and Influence...

This is a fundamental disagreement we have. You think you can choose what you believe I don't.

I think I have been clear...
People are Influenced. People choose to believe based on what Influences them.
You speak of Evidence, rather than the word Influence, then claim you Believe something based on Evidence. In the End, the Evidence is not Choosing FOR YOU, YOU are making the CHOICE to believe something OR NOT.

Influence
Evidence
Proof
Interpretation

Call the information what you will...
End of the DAY...You are making the Choice to Believe what you Choose to Believe.

I did believe I heard god many time through prayer and dreams.

I don't believe you did.
My evidence IS; For the Last 2,000 + years God does not reveal Himself TO men, by Voice or Vision.

Heb 1
[2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son...

I trust God Has USED Servants to Reveal HIMSELF to men.
I trust Jesus is Gods Faithful Servant.

Just as YOU or anyone may trust Science and information Other men have revealed to YOU, that You trust, to conclude your rejection of God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Vince said:

No caveat, I don't require proof just sufficient evidence.

Vince...come on...
Proof / Evidence are Synonymous
You requiring Either IS YOUR stipulation, YOUR caveat.
You saying "sufficient evidence", IS YOU deciding "what is Satisfactory TO YOU".
See? What is Defining what is SATISFACTORY to YOU?
You want someone to give you "sufficient evidence"....but you get to dictate what is "sufficient to You".
I've heard this circular tactic many times before...
An Atheist wanting EVIDENCE, then proclaim (according to them) SCRIPTURE is NOT, "sufficient" evidence.
And we could play the flip side, of me saying to you....Why DO you believe the moon is not Cheese? I only want "sufficient evidence"...
And what would be your evidence...? Scientific reports, Science data, etc.....eh, but that is not "sufficient" for me.
See? Gobblygook nonsense, and really has nothing to do with Belief in God.

Go outside, OPEN your EYES, Take a deep BREATH, Touch a Tree, Smell a Flower, Pick up a WORM, Taste a Peach......
THEN report back WHY that is NOT sufficient EVIDENCE of Gods Existance.
Do you not Trust What YOUR OWN Senses Experience?
Are you TRUSTING some OTHER INFLUENCE?
Scientific research? Reports of MEN? IF so, please EXPOUND, WHY you TRUST such things, but not your own Senses?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Vince said

It is not a trust issue it is an evidence issue. I cannot put trust in someone that I don't know exists.

Of course it is a TRUST issue.
We can squabble over terms all day long.
Bottom line....YOU claim to once have believed in God......So start there....
WHY did you once Believe God Existed?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Nancy]

If you and your god think feeding the hungry, taking care of the homeless, getting people healthcare they cannot afford, stopping trafficking, saving peoples lives by operations and medical care, protecting innocent people, standing up for people who have no power, fighting racism, taking people in that are homeless etc. etc. are filthy rags and are not good things to do because I don't believe he exists, then he is immoral. Because non believers do all of these things. Would you rather have an atheist surgeon operating on you or Benny Hinn? So you and your god can call us imbeciles and fools but I will keep helping people just the same because I have empathy and compassion for others.

The works done in order to achieve salvation are what God considers as filthy rags...the things you do for others is awesome, and highly commendable!... and I DO hope you continue in them and, as you've said, you do these things out of compassion and empathy and NOT to "buy" salvation, lol...keep it up ♥

 

[Taken]

Vince said,

Again you just say believe on faith.

Uh. No, I did NOT say that.
Nor do I believe that.

That is what this boils down to.

No, that is false.

Faith is not a reasonable pathway to truth.

That is False.

The WHOLE BIG Picture hinges on An INDIVIDUAL MAN and GOD forming a Relationship.

It began with Gods desire and God having made KNOWN His desire TO HAVE a relationship WITH Every single man.

There foreward, Every single man has the OPTION to Decide IF he desires to Have a relationship WITH God.

And For every single man who Chooses to have a relationship WITH GOD....God provides a WAY/ the Knowledge/ the PATH for that to be Accomplished.

YOU, as every other man Can CHOOSE your own desires, and MOVE FORWARD investing your time and effort to Effect and Establish your own Desires to come into Fruition ...
OR NOT.

And the FIRST step in establishing a RELATIONSHIP WIth God is Learning "ABOUT" God.

Learning "ABOUT" God or anything else, is simply a BEGINNING. A beginning that BEGINS forming a BELIEF, a TRUST.

You say you USED to Believe. But ON WHAT BASIS? Were you Believing what you Learned? Do you think you were TRUSTING that Knowledge your were Learning to BE TRUE?

WHAT "Influenced" YOU to STOP Believing?
Did YOU discover the Knowledge your were learning was FALSE?
Did YOU discover God Betrayed YOU?
Did Someone provide you with "SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE" that Something ELSE, created what your OWN senses can Experience?
(Such as the earth, moon, sun, stars, oceans, flowers, trees, animals, mankind, etc.?)

Learning is YOUR OPTION.
Believing is YOUR OPTION.
Trusting is YOUR OPTION.
Continuing is YOUR OPTION.
Walking AwAY is YOUR OPTION.
Committing is YOUR OPTION.

And ONCE a man COMMITS, based on his own desires, efforts, .......... THEN comes From God forward to the man......Gods Gift of FAITH-FULLNESS.

IOW - men are Carnally MINDED WEAK, and Wishy-washy...
Believe this one day, believes something else another day. <---- THAT IS NOT FAITH.
^ THAT is the Carnal Mind discovering and being influenced BY discoveries.

God is INTERESTED IN your spirit in your heart....A CONSTANT TRUTH....NOT a wishy washing ever changing Carnal MIND.

When a man earnestly Seeks God from the spirit in his HEART, it transcends BEYOND Mindful Carnal Knowledge to rather a DEEP Seated FEELING.

I can NOT GIVE you EVIDENCE of the FEELING, being EXPERIENCED "by Me" For Having chosen to Be Introduced to Knowledge ABOUT God, ABOUT Christ, and Choosing to Believe WHAT I Heard, and Choosing to HAVE a relationship WITH God, WITH the Lord, and DO So Have a relationship WITH Him...
AFTER having Confessed...
MY Belief, MY Truth, IN MY spirit, IN MY Heart.

I can only TELL you, THAT is the WAY Gods Word TEACHES, IS THE WAY to develop and establish a relationship WITH God, WITH the Lord....

And Once Established, as it IS FOR ME...
THE EFFECTS thereafter IN MY LIFE, daily are realized BY ME.

It is NOT some Magic ACT of God stepping in and KEEPING the EFFECTS of actions of OTHER men betraying me, acting deceitfully toward me....BUT rather:

1) Me being able to Recognize that which is Deceitful, and not getting entangled/yoked with such things.
(And that is taught in the Knowledge IN Scripture regarding PRECEIPTS).
2) Me having ONE (ie the Lord) to Comfort me in my own times of trials & tribulations of men against me.
3) Me having ONE (ie the Lord) to ASK for Help, with needs, and His Response BY PUTTING THINGS IN MY PATH, that ARE soulutions and answers to effect my needs being met.

People IN a Relationship with the Lord God, can and do experience such things on a Daily
Basis. Little things, Big things. And some people can SHARE those experiences, Little or Big....and the Result...??

An Other person IN a relationship with thee Lord God, will be glad and delighted to hear their testimony.

And an Other person NOT IN a relationship with thee Lord God, will DEMAND PROOF the persons Dilemma was resolved by Gods Intervention.

INANUTSHELL ~
A person DOES NOT experience Gods Favor, Without Having a Relationship WITH thee Lord God.

A person WHO does NOT CHOOSE to hear, believe, AND "continue" learning, and following ....DOES NOT RECEIVE the GIFT OF FAITH- FULLNESS FROM GOD.

A person who does not RECEIVE the Gift of FAITH-FULLNESS from God...CAN NOT "BECOME" faith-FUL to God.

Your delimma APPEARS to be...
You want a CARNAL, LOGICAL, Explanation, and Evidence.......TO "sufficiently" Satisfy your MIND, of Gods Existence.......WHEN

It is YOUR MIND, that simply gathers information/knowledge from Scripture, AND
The spirit in your Heart, that begins trusting to Believe the Knowledge, WHICH inturn BEGINS receiving ....
"MEASURES OF FAITH".... from God.

STOP receiving the Knowledge.
STOP Believing/Trusting the Knowledge in your spirit in your heart.
YOU WILL STOP receiving MEASURE OF FAITH, "from God".

STOP receiving "MEASURES of FAITH" from God....and you THUS, have diverted yourself FROM "receiving" FAITH-FULLNESS, from God....and you THUS, have Thwarted your Opportunity to ESTABLISH a Relationship WITH GOD.
(In short that is called, having FALLEN FROM FAITH).

INANUTSHELL ~ what you have revealed IS;
You read, you studied, you believed....
BUT you chose to WALK AWAY.

I would suspect you were relying on Mindful, Logical thoughts as you studied and believed, and when Scripture did not make Logical Sense to your Mind; you did two things...
1) Decided to Reject God
2) Decided to Consider other options that would satisfy your Logical thoughts in your mind.
(But that would be you to know for sure what you did and why)

Again, I will say; Logic is the workings of a Carnal Mind. The Mind gathers Knowledge and Information and THEN weighs the Knowledge....THIS or THAT....Ciphering of WHICH MAKES the most LOGICAL SENSE.

That Works Well when dealing with everyday WORLDLY THINGS.

It is a FAIL, when desiring to Establish a Spiritual Relationship with a SPIRIT.

The Ciphering and Logic of the Carnal Mind, is MOOT/ IRRELEVANT, when it comes to SPIRITUAL things.

IOW...
Spiritual things is ABOUT ABSOLUTE TRUTH.

Logical deduced things is ABOUT ciphering on whatever LIMITED information your have and then "PICKING / CHOOSING" what makes the most sense, BASED on your "LIMITED" knowledge.

God Himself IS All KNOWING, with ABSOLUTE TRUTH.

Man IS NOT ALL KNOWING, and constantly is changing his MINDS Truth.

Mans ABSOLUTE TRUTH, is in his SPIRIT, in his HEART....and WHY consistently Scripture teaches .....

A mans Carnal MIND is AGAINST GOD...
And
God Searches a mans HEART for the mans TRUTH.

Thus what a man declares.....I believe, I believe......and IT IS from his MIND.... God is not FOOLED.

It is when a man Confesses .... I believe, I believe....and IT IS a confession from the mans HEART....

BOTH God "and" the man KNOW, from whence the confession is made.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't I am going by what most Christians believe now and what I used to believe.

hmm, are you sure that's such a good idea?

Most professing Christians now are focused on going up to heaven after they have died, to become immortals, wouldn't you say? Is that life, more abundantly to you?

The bible is clear to me that they believed god existed. If you don't think so ok.

really? The Bible is clear to you that they believed there was objective evidence for the existence of God?

Could you state what they believed this objective evidence was? ty

fwiw I mostly function on "God IS," by way of clarifying my position btw
I Am

I don't know what you are talking about.

well wadr "How would you know what any evidence of God looked like? What is your criteria there?"
And "You want something, can you say what that is?" are fairly self- explanatory, aren't they Vince?
I'm strictly trying to (still) get some handle on your objective here, ok, from your own mouth I mean. Is "what would you like to see happen here?" so hard to answer?

See it's easy--even for a scientist--to kind of cherry-pick your way around the real issue, we all do it I guess, me too ok, and I'm sure you didn't intend to come here as a Fundamental Agnostic?

Or I mean am I misinterpreting there, is everything fine with you as far as you are concerned, and you are just here to impart some message? If so, could you state that? ty

 

[Vince]

This was a response to your statement, "Should we believe things that we cannot see such as the tooth fairy?" The fact that the tooth fairy is invisible is really not relevant; we have other reasons for not believing in a real tooth fairy. Similarly, the fact that God is not visible is irrelevant to His reality (or otherwise). There are all kinds of reasons other than sight for believing in things, as you have helpfully pointed out.

What are those reasons for believing the god of the bible exists?

No, it doesn't. What Christians "hope for" isn't absolutely anything we want (that would be madness), but what God has promised us, which is eternal life.

I agree. But it still says to believe in what you hope for. Your hope in the afterlife says nothing about the reality of that afterlife.

I believe in God because He has changed my life.

Why do you attribute your changed life to God.

 

[Vince]

Irrelevant argument.
I could give a kid a piece of paper, a piece of bologna, a piece of cheese, a hand full of spaghetti and say make a picture of a farmstead in the evening.... Think the cheese could be used for the MOON?
And if I said to the kid, eat the moon, would he be eating CHEESE?

Perspective and Influence...

No, what you have done is dishonest. You changed my question to another question and then dismissed it based on your new question. I will take this as a non answer to "Can you believe the moon is made of cheese?" The one that is 239,000 miles form earth that has human footprints on it.

I think I have been clear...
People are Influenced. People choose to believe based on what Influences them.
You speak of Evidence, rather than the word Influence, then claim you Believe something based on Evidence. In the End, the Evidence is not Choosing FOR YOU, YOU are making the CHOICE to believe something OR NOT.

Influence
Evidence
Proof
Interpretation

Call the information what you will...
End of the DAY...You are making the Choice to Believe what you Choose to Believe.

I 100% disagree. As shown by the question above that you refuse to answer. You believe things for reasons and are convinced based on evidence. I cannot choose to believe things I have a high level of confidence are untrue. Such as the moon made of cheese. I can say I do, act like I do and preach I do but I cannot make myself really believe it. Because based on the evidence I have about the moon it is overwhelming that the evident pints towards a non cheese moon. Same with God, I cannot make myself believe he exists. I used to believe he existed with the evidence I had but after further information I became unconvinced. No one chooses what they truly believe.

I don't believe you did.

You are wrong. I would never tell anyone what they did/do ir did/do not believe. How can I possibly know?

My evidence IS; For the Last 2,000 + years God does not reveal Himself TO men, by Voice or Vision.

Heb 1
[2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son...

I trust God Has USED Servants to Reveal HIMSELF to men.
I trust Jesus is Gods Faithful Servant.

I believe you believe this.

Just as YOU or anyone may trust Science and information Other men have revealed to YOU, that You trust, to conclude your rejection of God.

I don't trust science because other men have revealed it to me. But because I understand how it works and it has been demonstrated over and over again that it is the best path to truth. I don't reject god, I am not convinced he exists based on a lack of evidence.

 

[Vince]

Vince said:



Vince...come on...
Proof / Evidence are Synonymous

I found great synonyms for "evidence" on the new Thesaurus.com!

I found great synonyms for "proof" on the new Thesaurus.com!

They are not synonymous.

You requiring Either IS YOUR stipulation, YOUR caveat.
You saying "sufficient evidence", IS YOU deciding "what is Satisfactory TO YOU".
See? What is Defining what is SATISFACTORY to YOU?
You want someone to give you "sufficient evidence"....but you get to dictate what is "sufficient to You".
I've heard this circular tactic many times before...
An Atheist wanting EVIDENCE, then proclaim (according to them) SCRIPTURE is NOT, "sufficient" evidence.
And we could play the flip side, of me saying to you....Why DO you believe the moon is not Cheese? I only want "sufficient evidence"...
And what would be your evidence...? Scientific reports, Science data, etc.....eh, but that is not "sufficient" for me.
See? Gobblygook nonsense, and really has nothing to do with Belief in God.

This is nonsense as I have shown in the previous post. I absolutely get to be the judge of what I believe and what I don't believe. So are you. My point is that I don't get to choose my beliefs neither so you. I would present scientific evidence that the moon is not made from cheese etc. You could say that it is not sufficient but you know that you would not believe that, you would be lying. Can you believe the moon is made from cheese?

Go outside, OPEN your EYES, Take a deep BREATH, Touch a Tree, Smell a Flower, Pick up a WORM, Taste a Peach......
THEN report back WHY that is NOT sufficient EVIDENCE of Gods Existance.
Do you not Trust What YOUR OWN Senses Experience?
Are you TRUSTING some OTHER INFLUENCE?
Scientific research? Reports of MEN? IF so, please EXPOUND, WHY you TRUST such things, but not your own Senses?

This is just saying that you have no other explanation for why these things exist so it must be a god that did it. That is not convincing for me. Emotion and feelings are not a good way to determine truth.

 

[Vince]

Vince said



Of course it is a TRUST issue.
We can squabble over terms all day long.
Bottom line....YOU claim to once have believed in God......So start there....
WHY did you once Believe God Existed?

Glory to God,
Taken

Based on the evidence I knew at the time. Emotions, some philosophical arguments, dreams, prayer, eyewitness accounts of the resurrection, bible study, I thought I heard from God in prayer, etc.