the law of faith?

[bbyrd009]

Appealing to Scripture to say Scripture isn't necessary, isn't wise.

well, so you say anyway, yes

I have shown where it is necessary for faith in Christ Jesus,

ah no, sorry, you have done nothing of the kind wadr

can you show me otherwise?

not if you can't see...GE, was it? his point, no, I guess not. But it's all over the Bible though, I could provide 5 or 10 examples easily I guess. Have a blessed day

John 20:31 NKJV
[31] but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

and

1 John 5:13 NKJV
[13] These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

See, those were written so that they could know and believe something that was true from the foundation of the world, and not the other way around ok. I know you mean well here but you are going to end up at "only those who claim Christianity can possibly be saved" or some other yack, when it is abundantly obvious, from Scripture, that that is not true
Wadr

 

[prism]

well, so you say anyway, yes

ah no, sorry, you have done nothing of the kind wadr

not if you can't see...GE, was it? his point, no, I guess not. But it's all over the Bible though, I could provide 5 or 10 examples easily I guess. Have a blessed day
See, those were written so that they could know and believe something that was true from the foundation of the world, and not the other way around ok. I know you mean well here but you are going to end up at "only those who claim Christianity can possibly be saved" or some other yack, when it is abundantly obvious, from Scripture, that that is not true
Wadr

I'm not talking about Christianity, I am talking about salvation only found in the Jewish Messiah...Jesus Christ...

Acts 4:12 (KJV) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

 

[gadar perets]

My point is that there is no believing in Jesus without believing the Scriptures which is what v.26 is essentially saying. You can't divorce the two.

I totally disagree. Cornelius and his household believed and so did those in Acts 11:20-21 just through the preaching of the Gospel. So, too, the Philippian jailer in Acts 16 and the men in Acts 17:34. I'm sure I can find more, but they will suffice to prove my point.

 

[prism]

I totally disagree. Cornelius and his household believed and so did those in Acts 11:20-21 just through the preaching of the Gospel. So, too, the Philippian jailer in Acts 16 and the men in Acts 17:34. I'm sure I can find more, but they will suffice to prove my point.

I'm not sure why you think I'd disagree with the above point. Scripture is the verbal Word written. They heard the verbal Word necessary to lead one to Jesus.
Perhaps we are talking past each other?

 

[gadar perets]

I'm not sure why you think I'd disagree with the above point. Scripture is the verbal Word written. They heard the verbal Word necessary to lead one to Jesus.
Perhaps we are talking past each other?

This discussion started when I replied to your comment about "faith (in those writings). The accounts I cited took place before the NT was written. Those people believed based on hearing about Yeshua, not what they read in Scripture.

 

[prism]

This discussion started when I replied to your comment about "faith (in those writings). The accounts I cited took place before the NT was written. Those people believed based on hearing about Yeshua, not what they read in Scripture.

There were Scriptures pointing to Jesus long before the NT...
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
(Luk 24:27)
And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
(Luk 24:32)

 

[gadar perets]

There were Scriptures pointing to Jesus long before the NT...
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
(Luk 24:27)
And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
(Luk 24:32)

I agree. I chose the verses I did because they didn't use any Scriptures. I also want you to know that I have faith in Scripture being true. However, people can come to faith without the use of Scripture.

 

[prism]

I agree. I chose the verses I did because they didn't use any Scriptures. I also want you to know that I have faith in Scripture being true. However, people can come to faith without the use of Scripture.

I take it you mean dreams and visions etc. But how would they know that that wasn't a trick of the enemy as satan himself can disguise himself as an angel of light. There has to be that absolute standard to test such experiences.

Isaiah 8:20 (KJV) To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Jer 23:25 "I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy falsely in My name, saying, 'I had a dream, I had a dream!'

 

[bbyrd009]

Scripture is the verbal Word written.

"Easter" is Word now?

 

[gadar perets]

I take it you mean dreams and visions etc. But how would they know that that wasn't a trick of the enemy as satan himself can disguise himself as an angel of light. There has to be that absolute standard to test such experiences.

Isaiah 8:20 (KJV) To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Jer 23:25 "I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy falsely in My name, saying, 'I had a dream, I had a dream!'

The enemy does not lead people to Yeshua. The people in the verses I cited were not led to faith through dreams, especially not through false dreams or false prophecies. Nor were they led to faith through hearing the law or the testimony (Ten Commandments). They simply heard about Yeshua's miracles, his love, his death on their behalf, his resurrection, his receiving all power and authority including the authority to forgive all their sins and resurrect all who believe in him from the dead and whatever else was shared with them. Once they came to faith, they began hearing Scripture, learning YHWH's ways and solidifying their faith through having faith in those writings being true.

 

[prism]

"Easter" is Word now?

General principles aren't built on the exceptions. Neither do I hold to faulty translations.

 

[prism]

The enemy does not lead people to Yeshua. The people in the verses I cited were not led to faith through dreams, especially not through false dreams or false prophecies. Nor were they led to faith through hearing the law or the testimony (Ten Commandments). They simply heard about Yeshua's miracles, his love, his death on their behalf, his resurrection, his receiving all power and authority including the authority to forgive all their sins and resurrect all who believe in him from the dead and whatever else was shared with them. Once they came to faith, they began hearing Scripture, learning YHWH's ways and solidifying their faith through having faith in those writings being true.

Sure, what they heard verbally then, is what we now have written.

1 John 1:1-3 NKJV
[1] That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life- [2] the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us- [3] that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.

John 20:30-31 NKJV
[30] And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; [31] but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

 

[bbyrd009]

General principles aren't built on the exceptions. Neither do I hold to faulty translations.

oh ha stop, sure you do, cmon. Our Bibles are xlated into English, right, so you have no practical choice imo. How bout we just cut to the chase, and you Quote "the Bible is the Word," and I'll agree and we can move on? Such a foundational principle should be Written many times in There I guess right, I mean we certainly have plain enough language for all the other things that equate to Word, yes?

 

[bbyrd009]

Sure, what they heard verbally then, is what we now have written.

sure about that huh
Easter is just a lone aberration, right, a little insignificant glitch, nevermind what's in this hand lol
ok

 

[bbyrd009]

Sure, what they heard verbally then, is what we now have written.

1 John 1:1-3 NKJV
[1] That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life- [2] the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us- [3] that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.

John 20:30-31 NKJV
[30] And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; [31] but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

You might note the many who never read and yet were deemed saved, Zaccheus et al
ha well or you might not, doesn't matter really I guess

 

[prism]

oh ha stop, sure you do, cmon. Our Bibles are xlated into English, right, so you have no practical choice imo. How bout we just cut to the chase, and you Quote "the Bible is the Word," and I'll agree and we can move on? Such a foundational principle should be Written many times in There I guess right, I mean we certainly have plain enough language for all the other things that equate to Word, yes?

Yes, but you are using an instance where there is an obvious bias in translation to make your case. Pascha is passover. It is only Easter to a a group that wants to ditch any vestiges of Jewish Holidays and such.

 

[prism]

sure about that huh
Easter is just a lone aberration, right, a little insignificant glitch, nevermind what's in this hand lol
ok

See post #176.

 

[prism]

You might note the many who never read and yet were deemed saved, Zaccheus et al
ha well or you might not, doesn't matter really I guess

Zacchaeus had heard the written Torah read to him in the Temple. (Luke 19:9) It does matter.

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, but you are using an instance where there is an obvious bias in translation to make your case. Pascha is passover. It is only Easter to a a group that wants to ditch any vestiges of Jewish Holidays and such.

yes ty, I don't really care about that part of that post tbh, it just helps to make a point that remains

 

[bbyrd009]

Zacchaeus had heard the written Torah read to him in the Temple. (Luke 19:9) It does matter.

go with that then, and elsewhere describe how those with Torah could not have been saved if you like, neverminding that you are assuming here that Z even went to temple. See, you are studiously deflecting away from the point, that being that Z did not become saved in the manner that you previously inferred.