The Five Points of Calvinism
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Ephesians 1 KJV
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
In that we receive all blessings received "in Christ", and in that to be "in Christ" means that we are recreated:
2 Corinthians 5 KJV
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
Then I conclude that our election, one of those blessings, is received when we are baptized into Christ, even as Jesus was "my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect" (Isaiah 42:1).
So this would be what some call "corporate election". Jesus was Chosen of God, fulfilled the Law and Righteousness, and we receive what was His. Including His election.
Otherwise, we are receiving the greatest blessing of all, being chosen of God, outside of Christ, His choosing bringing us into Christ. But the Bible says we are first in Christ, and in Him we receive everything we receive.
Much love!
Mark
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
In that we receive all blessings received "in Christ", and in that to be "in Christ" means that we are recreated:
2 Corinthians 5 KJV
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
Then I conclude that our election, one of those blessings, is received when we are baptized into Christ, even as Jesus was "my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect" (Isaiah 42:1).
So this would be what some call "corporate election". Jesus was Chosen of God, fulfilled the Law and Righteousness, and we receive what was His. Including His election.
Otherwise, we are receiving the greatest blessing of all, being chosen of God, outside of Christ, His choosing bringing us into Christ. But the Bible says we are first in Christ, and in Him we receive everything we receive.
Much love!
Mark
Last edited:
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
Care to elaborate?
What do we receive outside of Christ, and where can I read about it?
Much love!
Mark
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
Send me a link and I will look it up and respond
there is no free will.
Man has a choice, but his will is bound by his nature
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
Send me a link and I will look it up and respond
there is no free will.
Man has a choice, but his will is bound by his nature
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
Hello mark,
Ok I will elaborate when I get to my laptop.
All that saved people have is found In Christ.
In fact the saved sinners are placed in Christ before the world was.2tim1:9...
So you say since it exposes your own FALSE DOCTRINE.
The proper response would have been "You are right, and Calvinism is total nonsense. I have been deceived by the doctrines of men".
We're definitely on the same page, it's all and only "in Christ".
But on this part, "Saved sinners are placed in Christ before the world was" ? I don't really know what you mean by that. I'm sorry!
Much love!
Mark
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
I'm still working now so that gives you time to remove your foul posts before anyone sees what you posted and spare yourself being embarrassed
;)
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
We have some agreement, that is good.
When we look at the Covenant of Redemption maybe we will find more to agree on.
Could you explain what you mean, though, when you say that "saved sinners are placed in Christ before the world was". I don't know what that means.
Thanks!
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
Hello Mark,
God is a Covenant keep God.
Before creation God considered mankind as fallen In Adam.
Jonathan Edwards explained that for Jesus to be the lamb slain before the world;
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
He explained that Jesus had to be in place as the one mediator of the people of God or God would have had to destroy rebellious man.
So The father gives to the Son a multitude of fallen sinners in what theologians name the Covenant of Redemption.
This is partially explained by Jesus in Jn 6;37-44....
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
The Father considers all men as guilty in Adam but gives a multitude to the Son,
The Son takes part in His role as Mediator, and surety [guarantee] for the elect children given to Him.
hebrews2
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
When was this grace given to the elect?
2tim1
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
Nothing changed but the context.
In Jn 6...the Covenant of redemption, and those to whom it is addressed....All who are given SHALL COME...
in Jn12....deals with the gospel being offered to all men without distinction...world wide, but it does not speak of who actually comes as jn 6 did.
All men whoever lived were not drawn. Some were already dead when Jesus was "lifted up".
1.) World. The word is Cosmos. This means his creation. Believe it or not the entirety of Scripture is not just about man.
2.)... yep. Yes He did. Before you lash out, answer this: Give me one reason why God cannot do this with His own creation?
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
Enoch111,
[And the context makes it crystal clear that at that time Christ was praying for His disciples and His saints.]
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Jesus identifies who He has given eternal life to;
that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
[No one would conclude that He was excluding the world from salvation.]
two groups are identified;in verse2
1] all flesh [including all the unsaved world.]
2]as many as thou hast given Him [the elect]
[because you hold to a distorted Gospel. And yes every false Gospel ultimately comes from Satan, since every lie comes from Satan.]
I do not think you can articulate what the gospel actually is, but you do seem obsessed with satan.
Not only that but your posts suggest that All the Puritans, reformers, Spurgeon, John Murray, Edwards, Matthew Henry, etc are all hoodwinked by satan, while you ENOCH111 has it right
[And before He destroyed the ungodly He gave them 120 years to repent. Which again proves that your doctrine is false.]
This post shows your hatred and ignorance of scripture which happens to give Divine commentary on this very section of scripture to expose false ideas as you express here,;The long suffering of God leads to salvation of the elect, both at the Exodus, and the flood
rom9
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
2pet3
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
[You choose to persist in your error even though the whole context from verse 14 shows that God has given His only begotten Son to be the Savior of the world,]
You mean the Potential Savior of the world, as you do not believe in an actual salvation.
You are suggesting Jesus tries to save the whole world but fails.
I believe scripture clearly says He dies for the elect sheep and he actually saves each and every one whom he intended to save
[and Scripture makes it crystal clear that Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world.]
Did you notice the sins of...are in italics...that means it is not in the text.Furthermore you have no clue what the word propitiation means. At the White throne judgment the wrath of God is not going to be turned away from the unsaved.
[And when you do that you misrepresent the character of God and Christ and distort the Gospel.]
You think so, however it is you who suggest a God who has done all he can, but cannot save people, they must save themselves in your scheme
[But this is typical of Calvinists who would rather die fighting for their false Gospel than admit it is all a lie and repent.]
You cannot make a biblical argument so you attack the person...very lame.
[Just goes to show that no matter how many Scriptures are clearly presented, people who have believed false teachings will never give them up.]
Looks like you have diagnosed yourself here
[And the context makes it crystal clear that at that time Christ was praying for His disciples and His saints.]
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Jesus identifies who He has given eternal life to;
that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
[No one would conclude that He was excluding the world from salvation.]
two groups are identified;in verse2
1] all flesh [including all the unsaved world.]
2]as many as thou hast given Him [the elect]
[because you hold to a distorted Gospel. And yes every false Gospel ultimately comes from Satan, since every lie comes from Satan.]
I do not think you can articulate what the gospel actually is, but you do seem obsessed with satan.
Not only that but your posts suggest that All the Puritans, reformers, Spurgeon, John Murray, Edwards, Matthew Henry, etc are all hoodwinked by satan, while you ENOCH111 has it right
[And before He destroyed the ungodly He gave them 120 years to repent. Which again proves that your doctrine is false.]
This post shows your hatred and ignorance of scripture which happens to give Divine commentary on this very section of scripture to expose false ideas as you express here,;The long suffering of God leads to salvation of the elect, both at the Exodus, and the flood
rom9
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
2pet3
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
[You choose to persist in your error even though the whole context from verse 14 shows that God has given His only begotten Son to be the Savior of the world,]
You mean the Potential Savior of the world, as you do not believe in an actual salvation.
You are suggesting Jesus tries to save the whole world but fails.
I believe scripture clearly says He dies for the elect sheep and he actually saves each and every one whom he intended to save
[and Scripture makes it crystal clear that Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world.]
Did you notice the sins of...are in italics...that means it is not in the text.Furthermore you have no clue what the word propitiation means. At the White throne judgment the wrath of God is not going to be turned away from the unsaved.
[And when you do that you misrepresent the character of God and Christ and distort the Gospel.]
You think so, however it is you who suggest a God who has done all he can, but cannot save people, they must save themselves in your scheme
[But this is typical of Calvinists who would rather die fighting for their false Gospel than admit it is all a lie and repent.]
You cannot make a biblical argument so you attack the person...very lame.
[Just goes to show that no matter how many Scriptures are clearly presented, people who have believed false teachings will never give them up.]
Looks like you have diagnosed yourself here
For starters, I majorly appreciate you being forthcoming with answers. It is refreshing and informative.
As to your question: if your answer is "God can do whatever he wants with his creation", then that is indeed an answer, and I thank you for clearly explaining your views to me.
(I'm not answering explaining my views because I'm just trying to understand your view)
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