The Five Points of Calvinism

[VictoryinJesus]

None of this supports a God of force, or one that made people for no other purpose than to force them to Hell.

Romans 8:20
[20] For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him (God) who hath subjected the same in hope,

The creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly...but by reason of Him(God).

Vanity: everything flesh and void. Dead works. Enslavement, Bondage to the lust of the eyes and flesh, the pride of life. All those nasty actions of pride and hatred and war from the desires of man’s heart subjected to vanity. ...by reason of Him who has subjected the same to hope. God’s will was for the creation to be subjected to vanity ...not willingly was the creation subjected to vanity but by He who subjected the same in hope. It says ‘unwillingly’ meaning God’s will was done for His reasons...not man’s.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You keep overlooking that fact that Calvinism also teaches that God created some people just to torture them in Hell. He never loved them, He never died for them. He just created them fallen, devoid of choice, and then forced them to Hell.

This is the OPPOSITE of the God that so loved the world He gave His only begotten son.

You keep going back to that. You are offended. If God chooses and it truly is God who decides...then those ‘predestined’ for the lake of fire or hell were created as waste for God’s pleasure to torture forever. I don’t believe that for a second. Hebrews 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

“Perfect through sufferings”. God doesn’t waste anything even ‘sufferings’ serve Him.

But just because it causes questions (maybe some that need to be asked) doesn’t mean we reduce it to man chooses just so it makes sense and seems right and fair and just. We don’t want man choosing...look where that’s taken us. We want God choosing. We know God is right and fair and just.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

You keep going back to that. You are offended. If God chooses and it truly is God who decides...then those ‘predestined’ for the lake of fire or hell were created as waste for God’s pleasure to torture forever. I don’t believe that for a second..

If you believe in pre-destination, then this belief (that God created people just to torture them) is part of the package. You can't avoid it.

Hebrews 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

This is talking about temporal sufferings in a mortal life, not about Hell.

God doesn’t waste anything even ‘sufferings’ serve Him.

God benefits by having someone damned and tortured in Hell forever?
I must be misunderstanding you here.

But just because it causes questions (maybe some that need to be asked) doesn’t mean we reduce it to man chooses just so it makes sense and seems right and fair and just. We don’t want man choosing...look where that’s taken us. We want God choosing. We know God is right and fair and just.

There's nothing fair or just about Calvinism. And yes, we should ALEAYS ask questions.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You keep overlooking that fact that Calvinism also teaches that God created some people just to torture them in Hell. He never loved them, He never died for them. He just created them fallen, devoid of choice, and then forced them to Hell.

This is the OPPOSITE of the God that so loved the world He gave His only begotten son.

Agree. So the theology is wrong and devoid of love. It is a respecter of persons. But God is not.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Agree. So the theology is wrong and devoid of love. It is a respecter of persons. But God is not.

Calvinism is wrong, devoid of love, and does make God out to be a respecter of persons.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

If you believe in pre-destination, then this belief (that God created people just to torture them) is part of the package. You can't avoid it.

I believe some were pre-destined to be conformed to the likeness of the Son FOR those that have not yet seen. To serve. To bear His likeness to the world. I see those vessels fitted for destruction do His will in the deliverance of many children unto God and for the pouring out of mercy. If I didn’t choose, they didn’t choose. All hate is gone or anxiously waiting for anyone to get what they deserve but instead the opposite in Christ.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I believe some were pre-destined to be conformed to the likeness of the Son FOR those that have not yet seen. To serve. To bear His likeness to the world. I see those vessels fitted for destruction do His will in the deliverance of many children unto God and for the pouring out of mercy. If I didn’t choose, they didn’t choose. All hate is gone or anxiously waiting for anyone to get what they deserve but instead the opposite in Christ.

If a people were created fallen and devoid of freewill, then everyone who ends up in Hell is because God created them that way, devoid of choice, and forced them to be there.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

God benefits by having someone damned and tortured in Hell forever?
I must be misunderstanding you here.

Yes. Misunderstood. The point was God doesn’t waste and (imo) He didn’t create people as waste either.

 

[Waiting on him]

Yes. Misunderstood. The point was God doesn’t waste and (imo) He didn’t create people as waste either.

Ephesians 2:10 KJV
[10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Tecarta Bible

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Yes. Misunderstood. The point was God doesn’t waste and (imo) He didn’t create people as waste either.

Ephesians 2:10 KJV
[10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Tecarta Bible

So what then in the purpose of the people that God creates fallen, devoid of freewill, and forces to Hell? What is gained by their damned eternities?

 

[Waiting on him]

So what then in the purpose of the people that God creates fallen, devoid of freewill, and forces to Hell? What is gained by their damned eternities?

That depends on what your perspective of Hell is,

 

[Jane_Doe22]

That depends on what your perspective of Hell is,

What is yours?
What benefit does God gain out a person being created and pre-destined to be sent there for all eternity?

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Again, this doesn't have anything to do with force.

A sheep chooses to willingly follow the shepard out of love. It is not out of force like a low-quality sheep herder.

Once again Jane ignores what Jesus actually taught here in jn10:26-30.
Jesus does not mention force...Jane inserts that to confuse the issue.
What reason did Jesus give for their unbelief???
Hint: read verse 26...right after Jesus said BECAUSE...YOU ARE NOT...
Can you stay within these 4 verses Jane? Or do you hate the truth of God so much that you instead want to substitute a God of your own imagination?
Your avoidance of scripture is epic, and shows why you cannot deal with what has been posted. You are not alone in this,however if truth is going to come to your door y you need to submit to the word of God written instead of you false ideas.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

What is yours?
What benefit does God gain out a person being created and pre-destined to be sent there for all eternity?

God made man upright, but man rebelled. Do you read scripture at all?
Gen 1:31....Eccles.7:29..

 

[Waiting on him]

What is yours?
What benefit does God gain out a person being created and pre-destined to be sent there for all eternity?

Many men will tell you that there’s a calendar that God has to follow, stating that they know this sequence. What if he doesn’t exist in time what if he is not subject to our laws what if this place many cleave to is hell?

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

You keep overlooking that fact that Calvinism also teaches that God created some people just to torture them in Hell. He never loved them, He never died for them. He just created them fallen, devoid of choice, and then forced them to Hell.

This is the OPPOSITE of the God that so loved the world He gave His only begotten son.

Why lie? Show a Calvinist that says God created man just to torture them? You cannot. You can only show your rebellion against the biblical God.

 

[Waiting on him]

So what then in the purpose of the people that God creates fallen, devoid of freewill, and forces to Hell? What is gained by their damned eternities?

What is yours?
What benefit does God gain out a person being created and pre-destined to be sent there for all eternity?

I see his righteousness in it.
How can he be the beginning and end and be a God without beginning or end?

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

If a people were created fallen and devoid of freewill, then everyone who ends up in Hell is because God created them that way, devoid of choice, and forced them to be there.

No wrong again.Those in hell are fully responsible for their sin and rebellion...jn8:24
Jn8;43-47.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Once again Jane ignores what Jesus actually taught here in jn10:26-30.
Jesus does not mention force...Jane inserts that to confuse the issue.
What reason did Jesus give for their unbelief???
Hint: read verse 26...right after Jesus said BECAUSE...YOU ARE NOT...
.

I totally agree that Jesus doesn't talk about force.
Calvinism does. Jesus does not teach Calvinism.

Can you stay within these 4 verses Jane? Or do you hate the truth of God so much that you instead want to substitute a God of your own imagination?
Your avoidance of scripture is epic, and shows why you cannot deal with what has been posted. You are not alone in this,however if truth is going to come to your door y you need to submit to the word of God written instead of you false ideas.

I love Truth and Christ.
I am completely opposed to Calvinism.

Why lie? Show a Calvinist that says God created man just to torture them? You cannot. You can only show your rebellion against the biblical God.

It is the L in TULIP- Limited atonement. God only loves some people and only died for some people. The rest were created by God fallen, devoid of any choice, and pre-destined by God to go to Hell.

No wrong again.Those in hell are fully responsible for their sin and rebellion...jn8:24
Jn8;43-47.

Those verses include the doctrine of free will: the wicked CHOOSE it.
Calvinism denies free will.

 

[Waiting on him]

Hell is the grave wich no longer exists. This is why we sleep apon leaving this world. At the GWTOJ EVERY KNEE BOWS AND EVERY TONGUE CONFESSES HIM AS LORD.

Romans 10:9 KJV
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

He does not exist in time. He created time for man.
Tecarta Bible