Who has read Malachi lately?
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No, I don't see the three entities: Jews, Gentiles and the church of God (1 Corinthians 10.32) already in the Old Testament.
Many foreigners joined Israel. Ruth, Rahab, and possibly thousands in the days of Esther.
...but not what began at Pentecost, the church, a revealed mystery in the New Testament which had not been revealed in the Old. After Pentecost the Holy Spirit dwelt with the church; before Pentecost there was no permanent indwelling. There was a faithful remnant, but it was not the church.
Acolyte
Well-Known Member
It has been awhile. I managed to get bogged down in the major prophets (had to skip Daniel for my heads sake), and neglected the minors. 
It will be part of my studies in the next few months... as are the others.
I have a problem at times thinking my studies are going too slowly. On the other hand, if I move quicker I don't feel I'm understanding. Reading for the sake of reading is not my intent, knowing time is running out, I will still opt for understanding.
:)
It will be part of my studies in the next few months... as are the others.
I have a problem at times thinking my studies are going too slowly. On the other hand, if I move quicker I don't feel I'm understanding. Reading for the sake of reading is not my intent, knowing time is running out, I will still opt for understanding.
:)
I think you will enjoy Malachi; it doesn't take long to read - 4 chapters - and you'll be reminded that it's so relevant to consider the faithful remnant and God's care over it.It has been awhile. I managed to get bogged down in the major prophets and neglected the minors.
It will be part of my studies in the next few months... as are the others.
I have a problem at times thinking my studies are going too slowly. On the other hand, if I move quicker I don't feel I'm understanding. Reading for the sake of reading is not my intent, knowing time is running out, I will still opt for understanding.
:)
This is what Dispensationalists say. But it's not true. The church (Greek = assembly) exists where two or more believers gather in Jesus' (YHWH's) name. The Congregation of the Lord = Greek assembly of the Lord, existed since the beginning of time and developed in significant numbers throughout OT Israel.
Frankly, no; what we have in the Old Testament - the justified by faith (Hebrews 11) are contrasted with "us" at the end of the chapter. Even the justified in the Old Testament "received not the promises": they were not the church, which is a New Testament revealed mystery (Ephesians 1).
But we are all the same body of Christ. And the church is his body.
“And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.” (Colossians 1:18–20) (KJV 1900)
This does not refer to Israel before Pentecost.
Ephesians 2.14-20 says:
"For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone . "
Where were the Apostles in the Old Testament?
Let's continue to enjoy Malachi, by the way...
“This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:” (Acts 7:38) (KJV 1900)
“Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.” (1 Corinthians 10:1–4) (KJV 1900)
Christ is wonderfully seen in the Old Testament; but that word church is even used in Acts to denote an unruly rabble; so the idea an assembling in the wilderness does not somehow replace the milestone birthday of Pentecost, the indwelling of the Spirit, the presence of foundational Apostles, etc. as distinctives of what the church is. Not every reference to baptism in Scripture refers to believer's baptism: even the verses around the baptismal formula in Matthew 28 in the Lord's words refer to the shortly coming foundational event of Pentecost.
The scriptures plainly call the congregation of the Lord in the wilderness the church.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
The church and body of Christ are not the same thing.
Israel and church are coheirs in the body of Christ. Two separate covenants.
The church are Gentiles and Jews together. Not Gentiles and Israel. One singular entity.
The new covenant is not to the Gentiles, only the houses of Judah and Israel. It was prophesied still future.
The covenant of blood Christ gave at the Last Supper is not the new covenant given to the houses of Judah and Israel. New, yes, but different.
Under the new covenant to Judah and Israel animal sacrifices return, law returns, the stone Temple returns, the 12 tribes return, the priesthood returns.
So many people deliberately blind themselves to this simple fact. Heavily those into replacement theology.
Israel and church are coheirs in the body of Christ. Two separate covenants.
The church are Gentiles and Jews together. Not Gentiles and Israel. One singular entity.
The new covenant is not to the Gentiles, only the houses of Judah and Israel. It was prophesied still future.
The covenant of blood Christ gave at the Last Supper is not the new covenant given to the houses of Judah and Israel. New, yes, but different.
Under the new covenant to Judah and Israel animal sacrifices return, law returns, the stone Temple returns, the 12 tribes return, the priesthood returns.
So many people deliberately blind themselves to this simple fact. Heavily those into replacement theology.
“And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.” (Colossians 1:18) (KJV 1900)
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
You love to ignore verses that disagree with you.
Christ is the head of the body, yes. He is the head of the church, yes.
It does not say the church is the body. If it did it would have said which is the church or similar. But it does not.
It is part of a long list of what Christ is.
Ephesians 3:6 New International Version (NIV)
6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.
Not the same heir.
Body, not church.
Israel is a nation. Church is a people.
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