Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!

[brakelite]

It is the only example that is ever brought up anymore as far as I can tell.

I could offer many more, but one should suffice. I am not attempting to shake your confidence in the KJV; I use it myself almost exclusively, but I would like to hear your explanation for the following...
Matt 8:28 ¶ And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
30 And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding.
31 So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.
32 And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.
Mark 5:1 ¶ And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.
2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:
4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.
5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.
6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.
9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.
10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.
11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding.
12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.
13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea.

 

[justbyfaith]

What are the ERRORS in the King James Version Bible

1Corinthians 1:18
KJV Bible: "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."
Better Translation: "For the preaching of the cross is to them that are perishing foolishness; but unto us which are being saved it is the power of God."
Comments: Salvation is not a destination completely reached in this life. Believers must endure and remain faithful to God to the end of their lives before being fully saved. (See Matthew 24:13, Mark 13:13, 2Timothy 2:10, etc.)

I beg to differ. In 1 John 5:13 it says that we can know that we have eternal life. This means that we can know that we are saved, past and present tense.

Now if the people who are making these contentions are doing so for doctrinal reasons (because they believe a certain way and therefore reject the kjv rendering, then they are along the same level as those who heap to themselves teachers to tell them what their itching ears want to hear (2 Timothy 4:3).

2Corinthians 6:2
KJV Bible: "(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.) "
Better Translation: "(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in a day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.) "
Comments: This verse in the New Testament is a quote from Isaiah 49:8 which writes about a day, NOT the day, of salvation. The day of salvation is not the same for each individual. The firstfruits have their day of salvation during this life. The rest of humanity will have their full chance at salvation in the second resurrection.

This is false doctrine: the only chance at salvation is given to us in this life!

Hebrews 4:8-9
KJV Bible: "For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. "
Better Translation: "For if Joshua had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.There remaineth therefore a keeping of a sabbath to the people of God. "

The kjv has the better translation in this instance (and also in many of the others mentioned).

Matthew 24:24
KJV Bible: "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. "
Comments: This verse should NOT have the italicized words "it were." It IS possible for the elect to be deceived. We need to be on guard!

It is not possible for the elect to be permanently deceived, which is the spiritual understanding that I got from this verse in the kjv the first time I read it.

Romans 1:7
KJV Bible: "To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. "
Comments: The italicized words "to be" were added in error. True Christians are NOW saints.

Entire sanctification is a second blessing (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, 2 Corinthians 1:15, etc.).

***

As for the verses that these people believe should be added and taken away, it all amounts to a detraction from sound doctrine from what I can see, when you add and take away what they wish.

 

[justbyfaith]

Then you need to reexamine your walk with Christ.

Why? So you can continue to believe as you do? my walk with Christ is better with the kjv and worse with other translations: and you think that I must somehow be mistaken so you can keep your point of view. To each his own, I suppose; but you are questioning my sanity to a certain degree just so you can hold on to your viewpoint; and I don't take that very kindly!

 

[brakelite]

All I had was King James. When the NIV came out I listened to solid linguists and such as Dr. Walter Martin talk about it vs. the King James version.

I switched and will never go back to the King James version.

With all the issues with the King James version on accuracy, in example, it is a nonstarter.

On Easter, your argument does not change the fact it is founded in a pagan religion via Catholicism.

It affects sound doctrine. An example, the earth was not created shapeless as a King James Version says.

I think you need to take more care in your personal criticisms of jbf because he/her preference is for the KJV...sure, there are issues but there are also issues with other so called versions/translations, including the NIV. And I also think you need to pick your hill to die on with a little more wisdom...easter certainly is derived from a pagan holiday, but your criticism is somewhat flawed and hypocritical coming from someone who upholds sunday sacredness over Sabbath observance. Sunday is no less derived from paganism than easter, in fact a little study of history would reveal that it was through easter that the RCC established sunday.
Not picking on you, but I would also like to ask for your Biblical support for your contention that all spirits are eternal. Certainly God is, but angels? The spirit of man?

 

[justbyfaith]

I could offer many more, but one should suffice. I am not attempting to shake your confidence in the KJV; I use it myself almost exclusively, but I would like to hear your explanation for the following...
Matt 8:28 ¶ And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
30 And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding.
31 So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.
32 And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.
Mark 5:1 ¶ And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.
2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:
4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.
5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.
6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.
9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.
10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.
11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding.
12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.
13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea.

It seems to me that there were two who were demon-possessed but in one of the gospels the one that stood out was the one that was mentioned to the exclusion of the other. It has to do with the fact that they were eyewitnesses; and eyewitnesses sometimes perceive or tell things slightly differently when relating their story. Sometimes one is a stickler for detail while the other is simply trying to give the basics of the account of what really matters without being convoluted by details.

 

[CoreIssue]

I think you need to take more care in your personal criticisms of jbf because he/her preference is for the KJV...sure, there are issues but there are also issues with other so called versions/translations, including the NIV. And I also think you need to pick your hill to die on with a little more wisdom...easter certainly is derived from a pagan holiday, but your criticism is somewhat flawed and hypocritical coming from someone who upholds sunday sacredness over Sabbath observance. Sunday is no less derived from paganism than easter, in fact a little study of history would reveal that it was through easter that the RCC established sunday.
Not picking on you, but I would also like to ask for your Biblical support for your contention that all spirits are eternal. Certainly God is, but angels? The spirit of man?

I never said there was no problems in other versions. But the scale of the King James version is massive.

The bible says there's no fixed Sabbath in the Church, each saint is free to pick his own day.

Nope, believers during the time of the apostles met on Sunday. That is because they were sharing the synagogues with the Jews who met on Saturday.

As for spirits being eternal, if not, then what is eternal?

 

[amadeus]

God knows your heart. But I do not recognize your belief as that presented in scripture.

As I understand it the most important thing is not even the interpretation, but the heart. People start with very little knowledge of scripture but a very great love toward God. This is what God wants, but He wants us also to grow in all things good... This is where this verse comes into play:


"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

It means to me that God is looking to see what we have done with He has given us. He has given us intelligence in different measures. He has given us opportunities through money or the lack thereof. He has given us access to the tools of technology or not. He has given each of us a certain amount of time. At the end of our course He makes the final evaluation of what we did or did not do with what was available to us. Only God is fully qualified to decide how well did or did not do.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Mormons are extremely organized. They are taught before they go and they have an overseer while they're in the field.

You're giving 18-21 year olds a lot more organizational credit than should be.

 

[brakelite]

I never said there was no problems in other versions. But the scale of the King James version is massive.

The bible says there's no fixed Sabbath in the Church, each saint is free to pick his own day.

Nope, believers during the time of the apostles met on Sunday. That is because they were sharing the synagogues with the Jews who met on Saturday.

As for spirits being eternal, if not, then what is eternal?

Like I said, do a little study on the history of sunday observance. There is no Biblical support for sunday...it is/was a church instituted day to appease pagan converts and conveniently avoiding being branded as Jews by the Roman persecutors. Be honest in your defense, and in your inquiry.
And "As for spirits being eternal, if not, then what is eternal?" is not an answer to my query as to what Biblical evidence there is for the eternal nature of angels and man.

 

[amadeus]

No, I'm promoting the bible and learning from the teachers in the Church. It's obvious your plan is leaving you in the dark.

I will grant you that there are and must be ministers including teachers provided by God as per Eph 4:11 for our edification, but you should not presume that those ministers are always the smartest, best educated theologians. You should not presume that the ones men place on top were placed on top by God within organizations built and named by men.

Some men took hold of authority without being led by the Holy Spirit. Some who have been given authority from God have misused what they have been given. Each person is responsible to pursue all that he can of God with all that he has from God. The starting point is not often, if ever the same, the precise road is not the same even though all of the roads will coincide in certain places.

Where is this darkness? How dark is it for any person who surrendering all that he has to God? How light is it for the person who is giving only 10%? The Light may be understanding, but how bright is our light? How well so we see the face of God... if we see it?

How quick should any of us be to point our finger at another and say he is in darkness simply because we do not see what he sees?

 

[brakelite]

It seems to me that there were two who were demon-possessed but in one of the gospels the one that stood out was the one that was mentioned to the exclusion of the other. It has to do with the fact that they were eyewitnesses; and eyewitnesses sometimes perceive or tell things slightly differently when relating their story. Sometimes one is a stickler for detail while the other is simply trying to give the basics of the account of what really matters without being convoluted by details.

Thankyou. And I agree. So we have to be discerning. The same goes for understanding the difference between symbolism and literalism. Nevertheless, the are other instances in the KJV where contradiction and error exist, but do not negate the core doctrines regarding salvation and the person of God. We all need to take great care in our criticism of scripture, of whatever translation we favour, that we aren't condemning one point that is somewhat obscure and hard to understand, while at the same time shutting our minds to clear and obvious instruction in righteousness and Christian lifestyle.

 

[Helen]

How do you describe the Godhead to others? Do you quote scripture and hope they will see it for themselves. Or do you have them notice certain things, helping them to see it?

You may like reading this old thread...it stopped for a while...then got rebooted a few months back...

I almost understand it all
I find it very interesting....
Maybe you have heard this concept before?

The Godhead, Diversified Oneness

 

[Dave L]

You may like reading this old thread...it stopped for a while...then got rebooted a few months back...

I almost understand it all
I find it very interesting....
Maybe you have heard this concept before?

The Godhead, Diversified Oneness

This was the false teaching (Modalism) that led to the founding of the doctrine of the trinity.

 

[bbyrd009]

I have trouble understanding you most of the time. If it is an act, please drop it. If it is a condition, I'll make a greater effort.

ok, thanks Dave

 

[Dave L]

I will grant you that there are and must be ministers including teachers provided by God as per Eph 4:11 for our edification, but you should not presume that those ministers are always the smartest, best educated theologians. You should not presume that the ones men place on top were placed on top by God within organizations built and named by men.

Some men took hold of authority without being led by the Holy Spirit. Some who have been given authority from God have misused what they have been given. Each person is responsible to pursue all that he can of God with all that he has from God. The starting point is not often, if ever the same, the precise road is not the same even though all of the roads will coincide in certain places.

Where is this darkness? How dark is it for any person who surrendering all that he has to God? How light is it for the person who is giving only 10%? The Light may be understanding, but how bright is our light? How well so we see the face of God... if we see it?

How quick should any of us be to point our finger at another and say he is in darkness simply because we do not see what he sees?

How quick should we condemn others in our ignorance about what they are teaching?

 

[Dave L]

As I understand it the most important thing is not even the interpretation, but the heart. People start with very little knowledge of scripture but a very great love toward God. This is what God wants, but He wants us also to grow in all things good... This is where this verse comes into play:


"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

It means to me that God is looking to see what we have done with He has given us. He has given us intelligence in different measures. He has given us opportunities through money or the lack thereof. He has given us access to the tools of technology or not. He has given each of us a certain amount of time. At the end of our course He makes the final evaluation of what we did or did not do with what was available to us. Only God is fully qualified to decide how well did or did not do.

This sounds nice, but blatant rejection of the truth speaks of other conditions of the heart.

 

[Dave L]

Study? Who is saying to NOT study?

Is your Bible knowledge improved by "Studying" the Bible or man-made Creeds?

Your words Imply, you seek other mens "understanding" of Scripture.

Scripture teaches God is the Source for "understanding"...."according to Him".
Why aren't you asking Him?

Aren't you aware MANY men give "their understanding" "according to "their" Carnal Mind"?

Arent' you aware The Carnal Mind is Against God?

Therefore, you should be seeking God for "HIS UNDERSTANDING" of Scripture.

Glory to God.
Taken

You are writing your own creed here, while condemning those more learned than you for writing theirs..............

 

[Dave L]

You mention the Bible and promote Creeds.



Good for you. I have chosen the source for help.



Read, study, ask the Lord daily.



Cover to Cover? Never. It is not to be read like a novel.

Length of time in deep reading, study, asking the Lord....Nearly 5 years straight for average 8 hours per day.

How about you Dave? Are you like the Average man who claims to be a Christian, and claims to attend a church, who dusts their Bible off, carries it to church once a week, but doesn't read it?

Or are you one of the rare Christians who actually crack open the Bible? Then read it like a novel, and understand it according to your Carnal Mind?

Just curious...

Glory to God.

The Ecumenical Creeds promote the bible.

 

[Zachary]

Simple Question:
How can the Mods allow a thread to get so far off track
that people are scurrying down multiple rabbit holes
without being shown the way out?

 

[Dave L]

Simple Question:
How can the Mods allow a thread to get so far off track
that people are scurrying down multiple rabbit holes
without being shown the way out?

We have a new thread on the Trinity. Please join the discussion there.