Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!

[Frank Lee]

We still have a problem with your not knowing what a book says, never having read it, but still rejecting it and calling it false. All based on assumption.

I don't call all books false - your words not mine - Only that the Bible is the one I can always trust. Thank God that It is not imposed upon me to verify or deny the Veracity of everything ever written.

I have no interest in knowing what every commentator has to say. I read enough disagreeable ones to satisfy me to stay in the Bible.

What does the Holy Spirit say? He directed me to the 119th psalm which says much about concentrating upon God's word. No where are we admonished to seek men's words. Not one place.

Psalm 119:18 KJVS
Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.

Psalm 119:41-42 KJVS
Let thy mercies come also unto me, O Lord , even thy salvation, according to thy word. [42] So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word.

I am reproached for my advocacy of staying in the Bible and because I am not as others. Surely I am imperfect but believe myself to have heard the voice, the unctions of the Holy Spirit.

 

[amadeus]

Have you ever read any of the Ecumenical Creeds? How do you know the JWs are wrong about Christ? Or the "oneness people"? Answer: Because the creeds debated and refuted their contemporaries back in the day. And then wrote it down for us.

Your answer here, I believe, would be the wrong answer even if the JWs and/or the "oneness people" were right [I'm taking no position on the specific groups named.]

Why would the decision made by those as you say, "back in the day" be more right than the decisions made today by the powers that be in the Catholic Church or the Southern Baptists or the Methodists or any of a multitude of others? Did those early people have a better connection with God than people today? Each of these groups today likely have leaders and theologians and ministers who really do write things down for their people or anyone who will read them, do they not? Why should the new ones be wrong and the old ones right? To find truth then, why not go back to Catholicism? Or why not go back to the way Moses led the Israelites in the wilderness?

 

[Frank Lee]

Your answer here, I believe, would be the wrong answer even if the JWs and/or the "oneness people" were right [I'm taking no position on the specific groups named.]

Why would the decision made by those as you say, "back in the day" be more right than the decisions made today by the powers that be in the Catholic Church or the Southern Baptists or the Methodists or any of a multitude of others? Did those early people have a better connection with God than people today? Each of these groups today likely have leaders and theologians and ministers who really do write things down for their people or anyone who will read them, do they not? Why should the new ones be wrong and the old ones right? To find truth then, why not go back to Catholicism? Or why not go back to the way Moses led the Israelites in the wilderness?

Well said brother. Denominations have a way of teaching that because of long traditions their teachings are the truth.

This is exactly what Jesus was up against. The Jewish traditions were so ingrained in the rabbis that they could not see the Messiah even though he stood before them.

Men made denominations and clothed themselves with traditions, not God.

The Bible contradicts the doctrines and dead faithless traditions of denominations. From Rome to the baptists tradition, not the words of God from the Bible are in control. Those advocating adherence to the Bible are branded as heretics. Nothing ever changes. Biblical prophets were persecuted for speaking for God's word and against men's religions and dead traditions.

 

[Taken]

The only sin is unbelief,

Applause, Applause!

That is precisely What made me naturally born in sin.

And Void of Belief, Everything I did Without the Lord God, "corrupted" my soul, being within my "corrupt" body.

My Body, was sentenced to Death of it's life,
Because it was born IN Sin, Against God.
My Body's life is its Blood.

My soul was not sentenced to Death....

For ALL who Hear...Gods word/Word has been saying since the beginning of mankind....

Hey yo dudes and dudettes...listen up....

I thee Lord God, can Forgive YOUR disbelief, and Restore YOUR soul, and give YOU a circumcised New Heart, and Rebirth YOUR 'Truth"/spirit, with my "Spirit Truth", my "Seed", and Forever Be with you, and you with me.

Their SIN IS KAPUT, covered with His Light, (which overcomes darkness), forgiven, remembered no more.

They are FREE from Sin. The Light (Power) of God dwells IN THEM, KEEPING THEM from Ever again being Against God or Corrupting their Soul or their New Born spirit...

Uh...simply, as Jesus said; they have been MADE Whole.

rejecting the sacrifice.

It's a conundrum....
With their mouth they confess Belief, confess to accept the offering of His Body, believe they are saved and born again....

Yet speak and teach complete opposite and distrust of His Word.

1 John 3:9 ....Can not sin...
It is not saying ... he DID not sin.
It is saying ... he sinned, was forgiven, born a new creature and can Sin no more.

He can never again NOT Believe or Corrupt his soul or Corrupt his new spirit.

Not rocket science, however grossly and widely misunderstood by a majority of those claiming to be saved and born again.

Did Jesus say sinning is the issue or that their deeds are evil and they love darkness, not light?

God gave a FORM of Directions; TO particular people.
Laws
Precepts
Statues
(Neh 9:14)

Jesus came along and fulfilled Laws...
But said, he did not destroy the law.
(Handy, since "somehow" () Jesus knew, Jews would widely continue to follow the laws)

Jesus taught Precepts and forward also Jesus' (students) disciples Also taught Precepts to Jews and Gentiles.

And the Statutes Jesus wrapped up into TWO Outstanding Commands, that condenced the former 10 Commandments, that IS able to be Accomplished IN MEN, who ARE IN Christ, and the Holy Spirit IN MEN, ie so able to be accomplished BY the Power of God.

While MEN (particularly Gentile Christian men) teach VIOLATION of a Precept IS a SIN;
It was UNDER the Mosaic Law.
But is NOT if one believes Jesus fulfilled the Law.

Precepts are behaviors BETWEEN man and man.

PRECEPTS were not "fulfilled" by Jesus...
Those are behaviors between MAN and MAN, that are taught throughout the scriptures of HOW GOD desires behaviors between men to be, according to what God Himself has determined is Acceptable TO HIM.

Jesus is our Example;
HOW HE, handled men who rejected Him, lied about Him, tried to trick and tempt Him, Turned others against Him, Gossiped behind His back, distrusted Him, Wrongly Accused Him, Betrayed Him, Imprisoned Him, Beat Him, Killed His Body...

Jesus simply said....Father forgive them, they know not what they do.

Forgive them their SINS? No. Forgive them their Trespasses Against Jesus? Yes.

(Had it been their Sins being forgiven...IN Truth, they would have ALL instantly Believed in Jesus and pulled Him off the Cross)

Another Lesson. Men can forgive Trespasses of a man against man, and are taught to do so. Only God can forgive Sin.

There is a Scriptural Verse (escapes me at the moment), about men who do not follow Gods Precepts, pretty much, their tough luck having to experience the consequence of Civil Laws Against their behavior between men).

And a more specific verse, that IF men forgive other men of their tresspasses against them....that God will Also forgive their trespasses against other men.

Inanutshell I believe we are in agreement....
However I believe MANY are not, precisely because they Lack the knowledge and understanding thereof.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Dave L]

Your answer here, I believe, would be the wrong answer even if the JWs and/or the "oneness people" were right [I'm taking no position on the specific groups named.]

Why would the decision made by those as you say, "back in the day" be more right than the decisions made today by the powers that be in the Catholic Church or the Southern Baptists or the Methodists or any of a multitude of others? Did those early people have a better connection with God than people today? Each of these groups today likely have leaders and theologians and ministers who really do write things down for their people or anyone who will read them, do they not? Why should the new ones be wrong and the old ones right? To find truth then, why not go back to Catholicism? Or why not go back to the way Moses led the Israelites in the wilderness?

All that you mention build on the creeds. Especially the Ecumenical Creeds. Look at their creeds and you will find the historic creeds in all of them loudly and and clearly. Truth does not change.

 

[Dave L]

I don't call all books false - your words not mine - Only that the Bible is the one I can always trust. Thank God that It is not imposed upon me to verify or deny the Veracity of everything ever written.

I have no interest in knowing what every commentator has to say. I read enough disagreeable ones to satisfy me to stay in the Bible.

What does the Holy Spirit say? He directed me to the 119th psalm which says much about concentrating upon God's word. No where are we admonished to seek men's words. Not one place.

Psalm 119:18 KJVS
Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.

Psalm 119:41-42 KJVS
Let thy mercies come also unto me, O Lord , even thy salvation, according to thy word. [42] So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word.

I am reproached for my advocacy of staying in the Bible and because I am not as others. Surely I am imperfect but believe myself to have heard the voice, the unctions of the Holy Spirit.

But you condemn books you never read. And push others away from them when they are nothing more than conclusions about what the bible says. Affirmed true by history and debate.

 

[Taken]

What if your pastor teaches you what the creeds say, secondhand. Is this wrong?

I think you are missing (Frank Lee) point.

He finds the Bible sufficient for Gods written word.

So do I.

If some men have written Creeds to say Gods written word is sufficient and they want to impress particular words....okay. Not a problem to me.

Point is I do not find the necessity to read other mens "agreements" before I pick up the Bible and make my own "agreement" with God Himself and choose Christ Jesus Himself to Be my Teacher.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Dave L]

I think you are missing (Frank Lee) point.

He finds the Bible sufficient for Gods written word.

So do I.

If some men have written Creeds to say Gods written word is sufficient and they want to impress particular words....okay. Not a problem to me.

Point is I do not find the necessity to read other mens "agreements" before I pick up the Bible and make my own "agreement" with God Himself and choose Christ Jesus Himself to Be my Teacher.

Glory to God,
Taken

But how do you know what God's word says when so many teach so many different things from the same passages? How do you know you are not a cult member, except by knowing for sure what the bible teaches?

 

[Frank Lee]

But you condemn books you never read. And push others away from them when they are nothing more than conclusions about what the bible says. Affirmed true by history and debate.

I truly don't need men's affirmations that the Bible is true. I found when saved the Bible is the only self affirming book in existence. As to teachers;

Psalm 119:99 KJVS
I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation.

 

[amadeus]

All that you mention build on the creeds. Especially the Ecumenical Creeds. Look at their creeds and you will find the historic creeds in all of them loudly and and clearly. Truth does not change.

No the truth does not change, but people have always often missed the truth or at least part of it. The writers of the creeds were men. Perhaps they were good men who served God well, but I did not know them and cannot know them based on their writings or on the creeds in which they stood behind.

I stand behind no creeds. I stand rather behind what we call scripture, but even with that I must be led by God. Many groups of people [denominations, churches, etc.] say they believe in the scriptures and yet strongly disagree with each other. Even the best of men cannot always be trusted. This is why we must be sheep who always hear the voice of God. If our spiritual hearing is poor or we are not always paying attention or we are not obeying the Word of God we hear, we will also at times be untrustworthy .

 

[Dave L]

I truly don't need men's affirmations that the Bible is true. I found when saved the Bible is the only self affirming book in existence. As to teachers;

Psalm 119:99 KJVS
I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation.

Can you state the doctrine of the trinity? Or the doctrine of Christ if someone should ask?

 

[Dave L]

No the truth does not change, but people have always often missed the truth or at least part of it. The writers of the creeds were men. Perhaps they were good men who served God well, but I did not know them and cannot know them based on their writings or on the creeds in which they stood behind.

I stand behind no creeds. I stand rather behind what we call scripture, but even with that I must be led by God. Many groups of people [denominations, churches, etc.] say they believe in the scriptures and yet strongly disagree with each other. Even the best of men cannot always be trusted. This is why we must be sheep who always hear the voice of God. If our spiritual hearing is poor or we are not always paying attention or we are not obeying the Word of God we hear, we will also at times be untrustworthy .

Have you ever read any of the creeds?

 

[amadeus]

But how do you know what God's word says when so many teach so many different things from the same passages? How do you know you are not a cult member, except by knowing for sure what the bible teaches?

"To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers." John 10:3-5
Are we His sheep? If not, why not? If we are then we should be hearing correctly, no..?

 

[amadeus]

Can you state the doctrine of the trinity? Or the doctrine of Christ if someone should ask?

Yes, I was a Catholic for a number of years and used to know one by memory. I have read others. I have read the essential doctrines that some church groups stand behind and even at times insist that a person affirms to become of member. Does God require these things of us?

 

[Dave L]

"To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers." John 10:3-5
Are we His sheep? If not, why not? If we are then we should be hearing correctly, no..?

We all do this. But Paul says speaking of the future. “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” (2 Timothy 4:3–4)
The creeds are nothing more than sound doctrine for the most part.

 

[Dave L]

Yes, I was a Catholic for a number of years and used to know one by memory. I have read others. I have read the essential doctrines that some church groups stand behind and even at times insist that a person affirms to become of member. Does God require these things of us?

Only if it's true.

 

[Taken]

But how do you know what God's word says when so many teach so many different things from the same passages?

How?
1) Reading the Bible ONLY.
2) Not listening to what Others ARE writing and teaching.

How do you know you are not a cult member,

How?
Because I am not JOINED in ANY man-established memberships.

I elected to be JOINED in Christ's Church, that He reveal He was Establishing FOR men who elected to be JOINED with Him.

except by knowing for sure what the bible teaches?

I think you are confusing " the words of Biblical knowledge " with "understanding of the Biblical knowledge.

What has been established IS, I trust the Bible for "written Knowledge".

It seems you are leaning toward "pastors" or "creeds", to Define the MEANING/UNDERSTANDING of the written Knowledge.

I don't. I rely on the Holy Spirit of God to give my "born again spirit".... Gods "Understanding of the Knowledge" of His own Word.

Glory To God,
Taken

 

[Frank Lee]

Can you state the doctrine of the trinity? Or the doctrine of Christ if someone should ask?

What saith the word? God's wisdom and guidance, not your intellect overcome. Spiritual things are not intellectually discerned.

Luke 21:14-15 KJVS
Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: [15] For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

 

[Helen]

Since all sin was paid for on the cross, what sin can you commit that Jesus hasn't already paid for and would have to be put back on the cross for?

YES!!!! ...

 

[Dave L]

What saith the word? God's wisdom and guidance, not your intellect overcome. Spiritual things are not intellectually discerned.

Luke 21:14-15 KJVS
Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: [15] For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

Right................knowledge is bad.