ROMANS 8 EXPLAINED

[farouk]

Oh, and here I was trying to guess who she was in here! Yes, I'm famous for derailing threads. Is your wife a Christian too Farouk?

Yes, by God's grace. (Can I pm you, so as not to derail the thread too much?)

 

[Phoneman777]

GENUINE CHRISTIANS CAN WALK IN DARKNESS (SIN)
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth... ("we" includes John himself)

I'm pretty sure that John by this statement in 1 John 1:6 is not providing for saints the option to walk in darkness. It has to do with "SELF-DECEPTION - that any saint who claims to be such but deliberately walks in darkness is no saint at all, though he believes he is, attends church with other saints, and gives all outward indication that he is a saint.

This same John also said, "He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him", which is the same kind of person John is describing in 1 John 1:6, is it not?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yes, by God's grace. (Can I pm you, so as not to derail the thread too much?)

Not necessary. I'll stop grilling you now. :)

 

[farouk]

Not necessary. I'll stop grilling you now. :)

Well, fine! I just didn't want to tell you my wife's age where everyone else can see it... :)

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Lol. Is she bothered by getting older? Most women i know are. I don't know why I am not...

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Romans 8 is a truly tremendous chapter! :)

Yes, it is ours!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I guess...the older I get I think the closer i am to where I want to be!

 

[farouk]

Yes, it is ours!

Hard to see how a true believer would not be encouraged by the content of Romans 8. :)

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I guess...the older I get I think the closer i am to where I want to be!

At least you're not saying "the farther I am than where I want to be."

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Hard to see how a true believer would not be encouraged by the content of Romans 8. :)

Why not? Having the Spirit is powerful!

 

[FHII]

But we have this treasure in earthen vessels. Gnosticism backs up your kind of reasoning. It is a reasoning that denies the active power of God in one who has been accepted into the Beloved.

As I see it , this verse lines up with H. Richards quote that a child of God lives in sinful flesh. The treasure is hidden IN earthen vessels; it is not the earthen vessel itself.

Romans 8 is built upon the previous 7 chapters and is making a victorious conclusion on them. We can't celebrate chapter 8 without the knowledge given to us in many previous chapters. Take chapter 4 for example. We learn that righteous is imputed to us without works, sin is not imputed to us, our iniquties are forgiven and our sins are covered. Never once does it say they don't exist... And Paul expounded on that over the next 3 chapters.

So when you read 1 John 3 (and I love that chapter as well) you simply can't forget not only what was written in the previous 2 chapters of 1 John, but the words of the other apostles. Why don't we sin? Because his seed remains in us. Why can we not sin? Because we are born of God. It has nothing to do with the earthen vessel, but with the treasure in the earthen vessel. The earthen vessel (flesh and blood) cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

John does urge us not to sin, also that we do sin and if (when) we do, we have and advocate in Jesus. I agree and as much as Paul spoke of grace, he never advocated sinful behavior.

If you really wamt to hammer on "we cant sin" the you should at least be established in the present truth (quoting Peter). And the present truth as noted by John isn't the law of Moses, its the great commandments Jesus gave: love God and love the brethren.

I realize I may have missed some points made or some dialogue... But I have to side with H. Richard on this.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Why not? Having the Spirit is powerful!

As I see it , this verse lines up with H. Richards quote that a child of God lives in sinful flesh. The treasure is hidden IN earthen vessels; it is not the earthen vessel itself.

Romans 8 is built upon the previous 7 chapters and is making a victorious conclusion on them. We can't celebrate chapter 8 without the knowledge given to us in many previous chapters. Take chapter 4 for example. We learn that righteous is imputed to us without works, sin is not imputed to us, our iniquties are forgiven and our sins are covered. Never once does it say they don't exist... And Paul expounded on that over the next 3 chapters.

So when you read 1 John 3 (and I love that chapter as well) you simply can't forget not only what was written in the previous 2 chapters of 1 John, but the words of the other apostles. Why don't we sin? Because his seed remains in us. Why can we not sin? Because we are born of God. It has nothing to do with the earthen vessel, but with the treasure in the earthen vessel. The earthen vessel (flesh and blood) cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

John does urge us not to sin, also that we do sin and if (when) we do, we have and advocate in Jesus. I agree and as much as Paul spoke of grace, he never advocated sinful behavior.

If you really wamt to hammer on "we cant sin" the you should at least be established in the present truth (quoting Peter). And the present truth as noted by John isn't the law of Moses, its the great commandments Jesus gave: love God and love the brethren.

I realize I may have missed some points made or some dialogue... But I have to side with H. Richard on this.

 

[FHII]

Why the sad face? Having the spirit is indeed powerful. I believe it can spill over into your flesh life too. Its just not the purpose.

1 Corinthians 15:19 KJV
If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Why the sad face? Having the spirit is indeed powerful. I believe it can spill over into your flesh life too. Its just not the purpose.

1 Corinthians 15:19 KJV
If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

Why the sad face? Not the purpose? Anyone who wants to follow a powerless form of religion deserves a sad face. And you like what he spews???

Romans 8:9 But we are NOT in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in us, and if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ they are none of His.

You and H. Richards say the child of God IS in sinful flesh. No. Those who remain in the flesh are damned. By flesh, Paul means sinful "nature."

 

[Enoch111]

If you really want to hammer on "we cant sin"

Anyone who distorts and misrepresents the Word of God sins each and every time. And the one who claims "we can't sin" does this all the time.
So to review 1 John 2:1,2 again:

1 My little children, ... [THESE ARE GOD'S CHILDREN]

...these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. [WHICH MEANS THAT THEY CAN AND DO SIN]

And if any man sin, [ANY MAN = ANY CHRISTIAN]

...we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: [CHRIST IN HEAVEN IS OUR HIGH PRIEST AND OUR ADVOCATE]

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: [THE CHRISTIAN'S SINS]

...and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. [THE WORLD'S SINS]

The apostle John is very clear that Christians must deal with their present sins through confession and repentance. That is how they can maintain fellowship with God. To claim that Christians are sinlessly perfect is to controvert Scripture (which is a sin).

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Anyone who distorts and misrepresents the Word of God sins each and every time. And the one who claims "we can't sin" does this all the time.
So to review 1 John 2:1,2 again:

1 My little children, ... [THESE ARE GOD'S CHILDREN]

...these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. [WHICH MEANS THAT THEY CAN AND DO SIN]

And if any man sin, [ANY MAN = ANY CHRISTIAN]

...we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: [CHRIST IN HEAVEN IS OUR HIGH PRIEST AND OUR ADVOCATE]

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: [THE CHRISTIAN'S SINS]

...and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. [THE WORLD'S SINS]

The apostle John is very clear that Christians must deal with their present sins through confession and repentance. That is how they can maintain fellowship with God. To claim that Christians are sinlessly perfect is to controvert Scripture (which is a sin).

If a Christian sins do they need to repent to be forgiven? Yes! 1 John 2:1 doesn't mention confessing our sin as we do to become a Christian in 1 John 1:9. That means our Advocate continues to cleanse unknown sins called trespasses. 1 John 1:8 is not a Christian - 1 John 1:9 is how to become one and they are the context of one another. 1 John 3:9 says a Christian cannot sin. Your misunderstanding of chapter one makes you the one twisting scripture.

To be saved one must seek to remain walking in the Spirit. For when they go out of the Spirit and try to fulfill the lust of the flesh they will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Therefore, walk out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

 

[Helen]

To be saved one must seek to remain walking in the Spirit. For when they go out of the Spirit and try to fulfill the lust of the flesh they will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Two different things here. Apples and oranges...not apples and apples.
One is about salvation. Promised to all those who have believed in their hearts and called on the name of the Lord.

And 2 is about INHERITING ...like Esau, what is lost is the inheritance....( Esau was still the SON of Isaac and Rebekah..... and the brother of Jacob. ...but without the expected inheritance that he would have had by birthright.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Two different things here. Apples and oranges...not apples and apples.
One is about salvation. Promised to all those who have believed in their hearts and called on the name of the Lord.

And 2 is about INHERITING ...like Esau, what is lost is the inheritance....( Esau was still the SON of Isaac and Rebekah..... and the brother of Jacob. ...but without the expected inheritance that he would have had by birthright.

Paul calls it a prize. What do you believe is meant in Galatians 5:19-21 that they will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

1 Lose salvation - the prize
2 Lose rewards on earth and in heaven.
3 Other

 

[Helen]

Paul calls it a prize. What do you believe is meant in Galatians 5:19-21 that they will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

1 Lose salvation - the prize
2 Lose rewards on earth and in heaven.
3 Other

#2
Salvation is not "the prize" Paul already had it when he wrote "I press toward the Prize of the high calling...."
Even James and John knew this, when they said- "can we sit on your right and left hand in the kingdom..." Jesus said...that is not my call, but my fathers call.

The 'prize' is our placement in the kingdom...for that we run daily.

..... :)

 

[1stCenturyLady]

#2
Salvation is not "the prize" Paul already had it when he wrote "I press toward the Prize of the high calling...."
Even James and John knew this, when they said- "can we sit on your right and left hand in the kingdom..." Jesus said...that is not my call, but my fathers call.

The 'prize' is our placement in the kingdom...for that we run daily.

.....View attachment 4364 :)

But what do you do with similar scripture?

1 Corinthians 6: 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

Are they saved, just do not get rewards?