Lessons for historical Mary

[Stranger]

Yes, I have the book. I will discuss the contents of the book with you when you decide to have a conversation with me instead of making ignorant accusations.

I repeated my questions in post #55 because you didn't answer them and instead you asked me several questions. I will answer your questions when you answer mine. That is not how one has a CONVERSATION with another.

And I still at NO POINT have found in any of your post what you said what YOU LIKE about Quantrill or what his GOOD ATTRIBUTES are!!

I will start: He was dedicated to his cause and willing to die for it.

See, I said something good about him. Now it's your turn. (and you can't repeat what I just said);)

Mary

I gave you the quote from Gregg which was given and accepted by the author of the book. I gave it in post #55 and 59. I said concerning that quote, it sounds like someone I could respect. That is the third time.

Why must I keep repeating it?

Concerning ignorant accusations, I have not made any. You have made several ignorant remarks as I have showed you. Which, if you had read the book you would never have made.

Why wouldn't you know the difference between a Jayhawker and Quantrill's men? Why do you not take in consideration what was taking place in this point in history before you brand Quantrill as evil. The author of your book takes it into consideration. Yet you want to isolate Quantrill, and just declare him as evil.

Your 'history' is programmed Mary. I have written much here that you refuse to respond to. Why? Because it is not what you have taught. And so it must not be true.

Why don't you know the history of Lawrence, which itself explains much about the raids on Lawrence. Yet you are oblivious to it. And then refuse to acknowledge that Quantrill and his men had reason to do what they did. As the author of your book even says, the war between the states was being fought in Kansas long before it began in 1861.

Don't worry Mary, I am reading your book and will fill you in on the details.

Stranger

 

[Marymog]

I gave you the quote from Gregg which was given and accepted by the author of the book. I gave it in post #55 and 59. I said concerning that quote, it sounds like someone I could respect. That is the third time.

Why must I keep repeating it?


Stranger

Dear friend,

I truly want to have a logical and honest and kind to the point conversation with you, however, you seem to only want to bloviate.

POST #55 is MY POST.....It is a response to Post #52 which is your post.

In post #52 you AT NO POINT LIST HIS GOOD ATTRIBUTES or SAY WHAT YOU LIKE ABOUT HIM!!!!

In post #59 you still have not given any good attributes or what you like about him!!!!

Gregg said he was not blind to Quantrill's faults. That means that Gregg, who was a friend of his, saw FAULT in Quantrill.

FAULT DEFINED: an unattractive or unsatisfactory feature, especially in a person's character.

What do YOU, @Stranger, like about Quantrill????? Notice I did not ask you what the AUTHOR said about him or GREGG said about him. I want to know what YOU like about him???

I will point out a good attribute of Quantrill: I like that he was dedicated to his cause and willing to die for it.

Now it's your turn.....:)

I have made some of the KEY WORDS in this post BIGGER because it seems you have lost your glasses and you are having trouble reading what I have written.

Historical Mary (who is still trying to learn a lesson)

 

[Stranger]

Dear friend,

I truly want to have a logical and honest and kind to the point conversation with you, however, you seem to only want to bloviate.

POST #55 is MY POST.....It is a response to Post #52 which is your post.

In post #52 you AT NO POINT LIST HIS GOOD ATTRIBUTES or SAY WHAT YOU LIKE ABOUT HIM!!!!

In post #59 you still have not given any good attributes or what you like about him!!!!

Gregg said he was not blind to Quantrill's faults. That means that Gregg, who was a friend of his, saw FAULT in Quantrill.

FAULT DEFINED: an unattractive or unsatisfactory feature, especially in a person's character.

What do YOU, @Stranger, like about Quantrill????? Notice I did not ask you what the AUTHOR said about him or GREGG said about him. I want to know what YOU like about him???

I will point out a good attribute of Quantrill: I like that he was dedicated to his cause and willing to die for it.

Now it's your turn.....:)

I have made some of the KEY WORDS in this post BIGGER because it seems you have lost your glasses and you are having trouble reading what I have written.

Historical Mary (who is still trying to learn a lesson)

Angry Mary (who has lost the willingness to learn a lesson)

You say you like that Quantrill was dedicated to his cause and willing to die for it. Ok. All of that was part of what I said in answer to your question about what I like about him. And I said it long before you did. You said nothing good about Quantrill till I called you on it. Now you have something good to say. Why? Because you didn't know till I brought it to your attention.

You now want to say it is my turn. How stupid. My turn? I have been saying that in posts #54, 59, and 61. And now you say it is my turn? Mary, Mary.

What do you mean you don't want to hear what the author says, when you are the one that said you would like me to quote from the author of this book? Why are you changing your story?

I have pointed out good attributes of Quantrill as explained by his Lieutenant Gregg on page 34 of our book.

Why don't you know the history of Lawrence Kansas, Mary? Why do you want to isolate Quantrill's raid of Lawrence from what has gone before? Why wouldn't you know the difference between a Jayhawker and Quantrill's men?

Answer, because you never knew. You bought into the fluff and smoke that was fed you and that is what you wanted to believe. And that is what you taught. And now when it is seen that you were wrong, you have no recourse but deny it. Get angry and deny it.

How many ears have heard your one sided presentation of Quantrill and the war between the states. Be proud Mary, you did your job. You coughed up what they gave you. To hell with the truth.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Marymog

A good place to start is the beginning. Here are a few quotes from the book, (The Devil Knows How To Ride, Edward E. Leslie). Tell me what you think of them. First of all the author sees the difficulty in writing a biography of Quantrill.

In his introduction (p. xxii) he says, "What follows is not a psychoanalytic biography. Psychoanalyzing the dead seems to me to be a dubious enterprise at best, and it would be particularly difficult in Quantrill's case because there is so little material that reveals the inner workings of his mind: He never kept a diary or wrote a memoir; before the war began he sent perhaps two dozen letters to family and friends; during the war he penned a short military report and a brief appeal to the Confederate governor of Missouri. Even the most imaginative armchair Freudian would be pressed to make a diagnosis on such scant information. If we know little about his thinking processes, however,we know a great deal about his deeds. What follows, then is ananecdotal history of William Clarke Quantrill, the guerrilla band he led,the enemies he fought, and the war they waged on the Kansas-Missouri border."

Yet Quantrill in the yankee history books is labeled as a psychopathic killer. This writer is at least honest enough to say there is not enough information to much such a statement. We can know what he did. And what he did is not to be divorced from the historical events surrounding him. Wouldn't you agree Mary?

Here are other quotes from the first chapter.

"When Quantrill first became involved in the ongoing strife on the Kansas-Missouri border in 1860, he was only twenty-two years old....They had grown up in what we would call a subculture, characterized by extreme rhetoric, callousness, and violence, and in which figures of authority--such as sheriffs and judges--acted not from fairness but undisguised bias, and the forces of order, the federal militia, sometimes murdered, stole, and burned property." (p.3)

"In the eyes of these Missourians the state and federal governments had failed to perform their most elemental function: the protection of individuals' lives and homes. It is not surprising that what became Quantrill's Raiders began as a Jackson County home-guard band formed by some Blue Springs boys to defend their neighborhood and families from the incursions of Kansas guerrillas." (p. 3)

The term 'guerrilla' is not applied to Qunatrill in that last quote. It is applied to those he was defending himself and others from. Did you note that?

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Marymog

The book is good reading, though I do recognize the authors bias at times against Quantrill. But overall he appears to be trying to be truthfull to the facts. But, even he has his own bias, which I believe he would fully recongize, as everyone does.

As you read the book for the first time, as I am sure you haven't ever read it, you will see that it is Jim Lane and the Jayhawkers that are raiding and killing and destroying homes in Kansas prior to the War between the States. They make no distinction between a 'slave owner' and 'Southern sympathizer'. In fact at times they don't even care if one is loyal to the Union. They are the ones out for loot and whatever they can get. Once the war started, Lane becomes a leader in the yankee army. So he has his own little army there in Missouri. But guess what, he simply continues exactly what he was doing prior to the War between the States.

The author gives a footnote on (p. 95-96) that is worth reading. Do you check the footnotes Mary? You should.

"...the preservation of the peculiar institution does not appear to have motivated most Missouri Southerners to fight in the Civil War. These Southerners, like their cousins in the South, had a variety of reasons for fighting against the Union--and it is obvious that an individual might have more than one,including such personal motives as parental expectation,what we would call peer pressure, friendship, a desire for adventure, notions of masculinity, and concepts of duty and honor.

"...most Missouri Southerners who fought did not own slaves and had no hope of owning slaves, and many would have opposed the institution of slavery. Many Missourians, viewing the federal government in far-off Washington, DC, as ominously tyrannous, fought for what one lieutenant, wounded in the Battle of Pea Ridge, called 'the underlying principles of Constitutional liberty and self-government.'

"....Southerners from the western border counties--particularly those who joined partisan ranger bands like Quantrill's--had an additional and overriding motivation: a powerful desire to take revenge for the plunder and murder raids committed by the likes of Lane, Jennison, and Montgomery, and by the various jayhawking bands both before and during the war....The Federals had committed depredations on all their families, and the men went to Quantrill with vengeance in their hearts. No other motive than revenge prompted them. Of course, all were Southern sympathizers. Indeed Mattox claimed that Quantrill would accept no one into the band who was not moved by injury to selves or family, imbued with malice and bent on revenge.

"....two abject racists were members of the band and undoubtedly there were more, but at least three free black men belonged. Little is known about one of these men, John Lobb, but the other two, Henry Wilson and John Noland, were in later years extremely proud of having served with Quantrill and made a point of attending the band reunions."

Like I said Mary, I am a fast reader and take notes. Don't fall behind.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Marymog

Once the war officially began, 1861, Quantrill served in the Confederate army under General Price. Here are some quotes from the book, (The Devil Knows How To Ride, Edward E. Leslie) concerning that time.

"Price took Springfield on August 12. After a thirteen-day occupation of the town, he marched west: He intended to cross the Kansas border and capture Fort Scott, where Jim Lane was headquartered. Lane and his followers had been making plunder and murder raids into the Missouri counties east of the State line, and Price meant to put a stop to them....A few days later McCulloch departed for Arkansas, informing Price that his troops were dangerously low on ammunition...Mayes and his Cherokee cavalry followed McCulloch, but Quantrill stayed with Price, enlisting as a private." (p. 89)

"....Freemont ordered Lane to overtake Price's army, but the Kansas Brigade, which Lane had recruited with promises of plunder, had only fifteen hundred men, so Lane cautiously chose merely to trail in Price's wake. He was far more interested in plunder than engaging Price. 'Everything disloyal, from a Durham cow to a Shanghai chicken, must be cleaned out,' he instructed his men. They also looted and burned other towns that had welcomed the Confederates. Even one of the Kansas Brigade's chaplains got int the act: He plundered Missouri churches to supply his own unfinished church in Lawrence." (p. 89-90)

Did you read that Mary? That may well have been the same Reverend you quoted concerning Quantrill's raid on Lawrence. You do recognize that all this looting and destroying towns is done by Jayhawker Jim Lane and his yankee army and not Quantrill.

Later Lane turned his attention to the town of Osceola on the Osage River we are told, "More than one hundred houses were burned, along with every store, shop, and warhouse. Only a few houses and one livery stable were spared. At least 10 citizens were murdered. About one third of Osceola's population was loyal, and many of the men were serving in the Federal army; however, when Lane and his men stole property there, they made no distinction between Unionists and secessionists, destroying or stealing almost everything that they could lay their hands on.....(Two years later, during the raid on Lawrence, some of Quantrill's followers would repeatedly shout 'Osceola!' as they plundered, burned, and murdered in retaliation for what Lane had done.)" (p.93)

Did you read that also Mary? Quantrill's raid on Lawrence was a result of something that had gone on before. That is the way it is with history if it is taught right.

"The Federal military now effectively controlled almost all of Missouri. It was left to the growing number of guerrilla bands to resist the Yankees. Lane, who had followed Fremont to Springfield, returned to Kansas City. Along the way he burned the homes of Southerners and so many blacks flocked to him that he formed a 'Black Brigade,' which he sent into Kansas to help harvest the fall crops. " (p.94)

"Quantrill left Price's army sometime during the retreat to Neosho and made his way back to the Blue Springs area of Jackson County. As usual his detractors cast him in the worst possible light, sneering that he was a coward and deserter who had no stomach for regular army discipline and organized combat. In fact, Quantrill was a brave man, and there is no evidence that he deserted; indeed, Price actively encouraged men to go home." (p. 94)

Again, here is something else I can have respect for Quantrill. Don't you agree, Mary? And what about that Jim Lane? What do you think of him?

Stranger

 

[Marymog]

Angry Mary (who has lost the willingness to learn a lesson)

You say you like that Quantrill was dedicated to his cause and willing to die for it. Ok. All of that was part of what I said in answer to your question about what I like about him. And I said it long before you did. You said nothing good about Quantrill till I called you on it. Now you have something good to say. Why? Because you didn't know till I brought it to your attention.

You now want to say it is my turn. How stupid. My turn? I have been saying that in posts #54, 59, and 61. And now you say it is my turn? Mary, Mary.

I have pointed out good attributes of Quantrill as explained by his Lieutenant Gregg on page 34 of our book.

Why don't you know the history of Lawrence Kansas, Mary? Why do you want to isolate Quantrill's raid of Lawrence from what has gone before? Why wouldn't you know the difference between a Jayhawker and Quantrill's men?

Stranger

LOL...Your killing me with laughter. You accuse me of not wanting know the history of Lawrence Kansas but you didn't have a clue about Reverend Cordley's letter???

I have given you several chances to say what you respect about Quantrill. You have failed to do so. Instead you repeat someone else's word. Since you are unable to articulate any good attributes that you admire about him we will move on.

Did you like what General H. McCulloch had to say in his letter to General K. Smith about "inhuman warfare" and people being "shot down like dogs"??? You know McCulloch; the Confederate General!!

Did you read about W. Gregg's disillusionment with Quantrill especially after he lied to the people of Jackson County?? You know Gregg?? The guy you like to quote when he has something good to say about Quantrill but avoid when he says something negative about him??? ;)

Well, in your recent post's you have suggested that I am stupid and a liar. Will I ever get an apology from you???

My most favorite picture in the book is that of bullet hole Ellis!! Which picture is your favorite???

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Marymog

A good place to start is the beginning. Here are a few quotes from the book, (The Devil Knows How To Ride, Edward E. Leslie). Tell me what you think of them. First of all the author sees the difficulty in writing a biography of Quantrill.

In his introduction (p. xxii) he says, "What follows is not a psychoanalytic biography. Psychoanalyzing the dead seems to me to be a dubious enterprise at best, and it would be particularly difficult in Quantrill's case because there is so little material that reveals the inner workings of his mind: He never kept a diary or wrote a memoir; before the war began he sent perhaps two dozen letters to family and friends; during the war he penned a short military report and a brief appeal to the Confederate governor of Missouri. Even the most imaginative armchair Freudian would be pressed to make a diagnosis on such scant information. If we know little about his thinking processes, however,we know a great deal about his deeds. What follows, then is ananecdotal history of William Clarke Quantrill, the guerrilla band he led,the enemies he fought, and the war they waged on the Kansas-Missouri border."

Yet Quantrill in the yankee history books is labeled as a psychopathic killer. This writer is at least honest enough to say there is not enough information to much such a statement. We can know what he did. And what he did is not to be divorced from the historical events surrounding him. Wouldn't you agree Mary?

Here are other quotes from the first chapter.

"When Quantrill first became involved in the ongoing strife on the Kansas-Missouri border in 1860, he was only twenty-two years old....They had grown up in what we would call a subculture, characterized by extreme rhetoric, callousness, and violence, and in which figures of authority--such as sheriffs and judges--acted not from fairness but undisguised bias, and the forces of order, the federal militia, sometimes murdered, stole, and burned property." (p.3)

"In the eyes of these Missourians the state and federal governments had failed to perform their most elemental function: the protection of individuals' lives and homes. It is not surprising that what became Quantrill's Raiders began as a Jackson County home-guard band formed by some Blue Springs boys to defend their neighborhood and families from the incursions of Kansas guerrillas." (p. 3)

The term 'guerrilla' is not applied to Qunatrill in that last quote. It is applied to those he was defending himself and others from. Did you note that?

Stranger

I did note that.

It still does not change my original statement that caused you to start this entire thread:

I disapprove of respecting a man who has been called one of the psychopathic killers in America...and ordered/participated in the burning, looting and killing of the citizens of Lawrence Kansas"

BTW....Burning down houses and barns and stealing the watches and money and pants off of non-combatants IS NOT DEFENDING yourself.

If you honestly believe that then you are as evil as Quantrill was.

You are pointing out bad behavior by the people you don't like to justify the behavior of the man you like! Your motto is: If my enemy sins then I can sin!!

How sad

Mary (who feels sad for Stranger)

 

[Stranger]

LOL...Your killing me with laughter. You accuse me of not wanting know the history of Lawrence Kansas but you didn't have a clue about Reverend Cordley's letter???

I have given you several chances to say what you respect about Quantrill. You have failed to do so. Instead you repeat someone else's word. Since you are unable to articulate any good attributes that you admire about him we will move on.

Did you like what General H. McCulloch had to say in his letter to General K. Smith about "inhuman warfare" and people being "shot down like dogs"??? You know McCulloch; the Confederate General!!

Did you read about W. Gregg's disillusionment with Quantrill especially after he lied to the people of Jackson County?? You know Gregg?? The guy you like to quote when he has something good to say about Quantrill but avoid when he says something negative about him??? ;)

Well, in your recent post's you have suggested that I am stupid and a liar. Will I ever get an apology from you???

My most favorite picture in the book is that of bullet hole Ellis!! Which picture is your favorite???

Mary

You never presented any proof of Cordley's letter. I asked you to, but you never did. You just told me to find it myself.

I have told you repeatedly that I have respect for Quantrill. And I have said repeatedly that it is for the reason given by those that knew him. What else do you want me to say. You only believe the things you do about Quantrill because of what has been written about him. You didn't know him personally. And the author of the book you desired that I quote from says no one can know. All we can know are the deeds he did. Yet you branded him some sort of psychopathic killer. Because you spit out what was fed you.

Apology? For what? You have proven that you don't know anything about Quantrill or the raid on Lawrence. You didn't know the difference between a Jayhawker and Quantrill's men. Now you do though, don't you. When you apologize to your past students for your teaching, then come ask me if I should apologize.

I don't really have a favorite picture, but I like the one above bullet hole Ellis of Quantrill, which was not found till the 1950's. As far as bullet hole Ellis is concerned, here again is something I like about Quantrill. What a shot, and moving around on horseback.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

I did note that.

It still does not change my original statement that caused you to start this entire thread:

I disapprove of respecting a man who has been called one of the psychopathic killers in America...and ordered/participated in the burning, looting and killing of the citizens of Lawrence Kansas"

BTW....Burning down houses and barns and stealing the watches and money and pants off of non-combatants IS NOT DEFENDING yourself.

If you honestly believe that then you are as evil as Quantrill was.

You are pointing out bad behavior by the people you don't like to justify the behavior of the man you like! Your motto is: If my enemy sins then I can sin!!

How sad

Mary (who feels sad for Stranger)

The history that you're being presented shows that what you have heard of Quantrill is a lie. You have heard he was a psychopathic killer, and sadly enough that is what you taught all these years. Now you are seeing, in the book that you recommended, that it is not true. That right there shows you that you didn't have first hand knowledge of the book you recommended. You were going by what someone else, some other link, said. Someone gave a quote that you agreed with and you jumped like a frog on a hot rock. And it is what you wanted to hear, as it is what you taught.

So, you disapprove of Sherman, Sheridan, Lane, and the whole yankee army that made war against the Southern civilians? You love to call Quantrill and me evil, were they evil?

No, my motto is when an enemy attacks you and destroys your unarmed family then he has set the precedent of how the war is to be carried out. You live in a cocoon Mary. If your enemy declares no quarter be given , then you cannot show quarter to your enemy.

Spare me your sadness Mary. It is feigned. Makes you look so motherly to some. Grow up. Accept that you didn't know what you were talking about all those years when you taught history wrongfully. They blew smoke and you breathed. Then coughed it out.

But I am enjoying this book Mary. Are you? I will keep you updated.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Marymog

Setting the record straight.

At this stage, Missouri seceded and the War is on. Quantrill is recognized as the leader of his band. And here is an interesting occurance. Again, quotes are from (The Devil Knows How To Ride, Edward E. Leslie, Da Capo Press, 1996)

"A Confederate deserter named George Searcy arrived in Blue Springs at Christmas time. He had served honorably under Price, but now he made a nuisance of himself by stealing horses and mules from Union families. He also made the mistake of trying to assassinate Quantrill. Quantrill and his men tracked him down and gave him a perfunctory trial...A rope was thrown over a tree limb...so they hauled him int the air. Quantrill returned the animals and other property to their rightful owners--despite their Unionist sympathies." (p. 97)

"A few days later Quantrill struck a Federal patrol at Manasseth Gap on the road to Independence. Several Yankees were wounded, and the rest surrendered. After their arms and ammunition were taken from them, Quantrill paroled them." (P.97

"(The point should be made that, however unscrupulously he may have behaved in the summer and fall of 1860, once the war began he thought of himself as a Confederate soldier fighting for the Cause, and he adhered strictly and consistently to a personal code of honor: He kept promises he made to the enemy, accepted surrender, granted paroles, tried to exchange prisoners, and made certain that none of his men ever raped or assaulted a woman. True, the code might not be one which Virginia gentleman Robert E. Lee could endorse without amendments--civilian or military foe who resisted him, tried to escape, or refused to provide information were summarily dealt with--but how many other bushwhacker, jayhawker, or redleg leaders adhered to even his spare principles? It was only after the Federal authorities issued orders outlawing all partisans and began executing Quantrill's captured followers without benefit of trial that he adopted a merciless policy of no quarter.)" (p.97-98)

See Mary. Once again, you cannot isolate a historical event in history. It is always understood in light of the events leading up to it and after it. If Quantrill was merciless later, the author here has explained why. Cause and affect. How about those Federal authorities? Do you consider them psychopathic killers also? Is your view of Quantrill becoming clearer now...changing perhaps?

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Marymog

This bit of history, located in the book you recommended, (The Devil Knows How To Ride, Edward E. Leslie), concerns one who rode with Quantrill, a man named Cole Younger. It is important as it shows again why men were willing to join Quantrill and fight as they did. It is typical of those who fought with Quantrill.

"When Cole's sister refused to dance with him, Walley picked a fight with Cole. 'Where is Quantrell?' he demanded with a sneer. 'I don't know,' Cole answered. Walley, who believed that Younger was passing intelligence to the guerrillas, shouted, 'you are a liar'. Cole knocked him down. As the captain drew his pistol, some of Cole's friends stepped between them. Cole and his sister were hurried to their horses." (p. 101)

"....Walley had Cole formally charged with spying....Cole, who had wanted to stay and fight and had only very reluctantly acceded to his parent's wishes to continue his education, now knew there was no choice....He took his shotgun and revolver and set himself adrift on the border." p.101"

Henry Younger was Cole's father. "...Henry Younger had won a contract to deliver mail....jayhawkers struck his stage line and livery stable, stealing horses and wagons; they also looted his store and burned some of his property....Henry rode in a buggy to the headquarters of the state militia at Kansas City,Missouri, to lodge a complaint. As he returned home he was waylaid by Walley and his men. Shot three times, he fell out of the buggy and died...." (p.101)

"Henry Younger's assassination was not the last bit of villainy visited on the Younger family by Yankees. They so harassed Mrs. Younger that she left Harrisonville and moved to the farm in Cass County. A year after her husband's murder, militia came in the middle of the night and tried to force her a gunpoint to set fire to her own house. As it had been snowing and was bitterly cold, she begged her tormentors to allow her to wait until morning. They agreed...As the flames engulfed the walls, she set out on foot leading her four youngest children and her house slave, Suse, on an eight and a half miletrek through the drifts back t Harrisonville. Life was so difficult for her there that she moved to Waverly, where, Cole said, 'she was hounded continually.' " (p. 101-102)

It wouldn't be long after this that some of Cole's sisters and cousins were arrested and murdered in the collapse of the jail in Kansas City, Missouri. The author goes into the story on (p. 102). But I have already given the story in post #1 and #2.

How about that Mary? Is your opinion of Quantrill and the men who fought with him changing?


Stranger

 

[Marymog]

I don't really have a favorite picture, but I like the one above bullet hole Ellis of Quantrill, which was not found till the 1950's. As far as bullet hole Ellis is concerned, here again is something I like about Quantrill. What a shot, and moving around on horseback.

Stranger

He was a great shot....Something to admire about him ;)

And, as you may remember in the book, Quantrill apologized to him for shooting him.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

You never presented any proof of Cordley's letter. I asked you to, but you never did. You just told me to find it myself.

I have told you repeatedly that I have respect for Quantrill. And I have said repeatedly that it is for the reason given by those that knew him. What else do you want me to say. You only believe the things you do about Quantrill because of what has been written about him. You didn't know him personally. And the author of the book you desired that I quote from says no one can know. All we can know are the deeds he did. Yet you branded him some sort of psychopathic killer. Because you spit out what was fed you.

Apology? For what? You have proven that you don't know anything about Quantrill or the raid on Lawrence. You didn't know the difference between a Jayhawker and Quantrill's men. Now you do though, don't you. When you apologize to your past students for your teaching, then come ask me if I should apologize.

I don't really have a favorite picture, but I like the one above bullet hole Ellis of Quantrill, which was not found till the 1950's. As far as bullet hole Ellis is concerned, here again is something I like about Quantrill. What a shot, and moving around on horseback.

Stranger

Oh no....somebody is DODGING tough questions!!!

Did you like what General H. McCulloch had to say in his letter to General K. Smith about "inhuman warfare" and people being "shot down like dogs"??? You know McCulloch; the Confederate General!!

Did you read about W. Gregg's disillusionment with Quantrill especially after he lied to the people of Jackson County?? You know Gregg?? The guy you like to quote when he has something good to say about Quantrill but avoid when he says something negative about him???

Can you explain this bizarre statement: You only believe the things you do about Quantrill because of what has been written about him. You didn't know him personally.

Is it possible you will ever apologize for suggesting I was stupid and suggesting that I lied about having the book??? (due to your pride I know you won't apologize but it doesn't hurt to ask)

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

So, you disapprove of Sherman, Sheridan, Lane, and the whole yankee army that made war against the Southern civilians? You love to call Quantrill and me evil, were they evil?

Stranger

Yes...I disapprove of any evil that Sherman, Sheridan, Lane and Quantrill did.

Can you write that same sentence?? (waiting with baited breath )

Mary

 

[Stranger]

He was a great shot....Something to admire about him ;)

And, as you may remember in the book, Quantrill apologized to him for shooting him.

Mary

Still....a great shot. Right?

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Oh no....somebody is DODGING tough questions!!!

Did you like what General H. McCulloch had to say in his letter to General K. Smith about "inhuman warfare" and people being "shot down like dogs"??? You know McCulloch; the Confederate General!!

Did you read about W. Gregg's disillusionment with Quantrill especially after he lied to the people of Jackson County?? You know Gregg?? The guy you like to quote when he has something good to say about Quantrill but avoid when he says something negative about him???

Can you explain this bizarre statement: You only believe the things you do about Quantrill because of what has been written about him. You didn't know him personally.

Is it possible you will ever apologize for suggesting I was stupid and suggesting that I lied about having the book??? (due to your pride I know you won't apologize but it doesn't hurt to ask)

Curious Mary

You are big on speeches. Yet you never give the source. We are using the same book. so, give me the reference of what you are talking about.

No, I will not apologize for your stupidity. That is what you should do. I will not apologize for your ignorance of the book because it is clear you have never read the book. If you had read it you would have never made the stupid allegations you did about how I would never quote from it.

What is bizarre about my statement?

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Yes...I disapprove of any evil that Sherman, Sheridan, Lane and Quantrill did.

Can you write that same sentence?? (waiting with baited breath )

Mary

You left out the whole yankee army. Why?

Yes I can write the same sentence. So?

Mary, you are such a liar. The point of the author of the book, you recommended, is that Quantrill did what he did in response to what occurred before. But now you, because you have been taught some history, want to say they were all evil. You are not acknowledging your ignorance of history and only confirming your bias in what you have taught.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Marymog

You provide nothing. I have given reference and page numbers to what was said. You give nothing but opinion. It is your book. You recommended and dared me to quote from it, yet you do not quote from it.

What a 'history' teacher you must have been. Not!

You are a perfect example of why Americans believe the 'history' they do today. A big bucket of bs.

Stranger

 

[Marymog]

You are big on speeches. Yet you never give the source. We are using the same book. so, give me the reference of what you are talking about.

No, I will not apologize for your stupidity. That is what you should do. I will not apologize for your ignorance of the book because it is clear you have never read the book. If you had read it you would have never made the stupid allegations you did about how I would never quote from it.

What is bizarre about my statement?

Stranger

I thought you read the book??? If you had you wouldn't need me to give you the page number.

I will partially appease you: Page 285 for the letter from McCulloch....You can find the other thing (W. Gregg's disillusionment) on your own.

Also, look for the part in the book where Quantrill LIED in a letter to his commanding General and LIED to the people of Jackson County.

Your bizarre statement was to say I only believe what I read about Quantrill because I didn't know him personally. Please, do tell Stranger: Did you know him personally??? Is that why you hold him in such high regard??? Or have you only read about him????

The title of this thread is "Lessons for historical Mary". I have learned nothing FROM you but I have learned a lot about you.

What I have learned about you makes me sad for you. I truly feel sorry for you Stranger. For you to hold in high regard a person who did all the terrible things he did and to defend him and his ilk and slavery is sad and un-Christian like. I have been kind to you and you return that kindness by trying to degrade me.

I don't take it personal. I am willing to bet if we were to meet face to face you wouldn't be so mean and abrasive. I suspect you would be a coward to my face but the computer gives you anonymity.

I wish you well. I am glad I was able to teach you about the Reverend Cordley's letter and the bad things that Quantrill's own 'supporters' said about him.

My prayers are with you.

Mary