Endless Pet Doctrines

[bbyrd009]

"
It's not often emphasized but the original Jesus movement did not simply demand that there was only one God, but rather that the only law was natural law. Unfortunately for Rome, nature is stronger than the emperor, and the Marian sect grew increasingly strong and, along with the Stoic ideas of humanism and decency, threatened to destabilize the Roman way of life. Fortunately for Rome, young Constantine had a cunning plan.

Emperor Constantine the Great was a life-long devotee of the cult of Sol Invictus (the Invincible Sun), and he cleverly deflated the natural liberation movement by applying its signature names and phrases to the core elements of the Roman Imperial cult. So doing he diverted its painstakingly wrought social energies into a revived version of the time honored paganism of Rome. The pantheon of demigods now became called saints (deified humans), the divine and elite political hierarchy was dubbed clergy, amulets became icons, magic chants became prayers, spells became blessings and invocations curses, and of course the divine representative of the Pantokrator was the holy emperor himself! The world of the Lord of Life is based on natural economy and thus diversity (Galatians 2:11) but Constantine turned it into a graven image that grew ever more rigid; Christianity's library of immutable doctrines took the place of Rome' rows of marble idols.

Thanks to Constantine and his councils, creeds and exclusive canon (which blatantly opposed Paul's inclusive assertion that all writing is θεοπνευστος, theopneustos; 2 Timothy 3:16) the detrimental atheism of the liberation movement became the wholly dependable monotheistic religion of imperial Christianity. And although the deception worked like a miracle, it needed some nifty folklore to get really going..." http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Mary.html#.W3nvOehKiUm

 

[bbyrd009]

"
The synoptic evangelists were writing during the first decades of the Jewish Wars and had to word their disapproval of Rome very carefully, if possible even more careful than Paul had in the decades prior (read our article on the name Onesimus).

The hope on deliverance by natural, God-ordained means, which fueled the social movement after the destruction of the temple in 70 AD by Titus (whose father Vespasian was nicknamed mulio or Muleteer), became the triumphant entree of Jesus on the foal of a mule (Matthew 21:5). The Idumean king Herod's scandalous termination of the rightful Hasmonean royal bloodline by executing his own Hasmonean wife and their sons, was told of as the massacre of the innocents of Bethlehem (Matthew 2:16).

When Jesus spoke of moving mountains (Matthew 17:20), nobody in his audience would have failed to recall the colossal manmade mountain that housed Herod's palace called the Herodion. When he told of throwing mountains into the sea (Matthew 21:21), his audience doubtlessly remembered how Herod had built the harbor complex of Caesarea Maritima from imported cement made from volcanic ash. And when the foolish man built on shifting sand (Matthew 7:26), few would not have snickered at that very complex sinking rapidly beneath the waves.

When in 9 AD Emperor Tiberius asked chief Bato of the Illyrian insurrectionists the reason for the revolt, he answered: "You Romans are to blame for this, for you send as guardians of your flocks neither dogs nor shepherds but wolves." When Jesus said: "I am sending you out like sheep among wolves" (Matthew 10:16) nobody in first century Palestine would not have understood these words to relate to the great revolt that had nearly stopped Rome.

In Luke's account of the risen Christ who met Cleopas on the road to Emmaus (24:13-18), the author supplied sensitive commentaries on the battles of Emmaus and Actium (hence Nicopolis). Luke's story of Lazarus (16:20) offered in no uncertain terms a commentary on the templar enterprise installed by Rome, built by Herod and ran by Annas and his cartel..." ibid

 

[Naomi25]

k, just remember "I will not hear your prayers in that day" comes from God ok, not me

Sure, but you remember that that verse is for a very specific people and circumstance. It should not be applied to us all, for all situations.

 

[aspen]

i agree there, but imo let's get a common def of "genuine worship experience" first?

Genuine worship is a connection between worshipper and God, which may manifest in a full range of behavior. I am not willing to judge a subjective experience

 

[Small Fish]

Well, here is another thread devoted to my endless pet doctrines. Love your neighbor as yourself.....learning to love everyone. Yeah, i know its really strange stuff.....

Well this is good but when people speak of love there always seems to be some factors overlooked.

Firstly, love? If we are speaking of love then what exactly is it? Are there different types of love? I say yes.

Personally I feel modern day Christianity have adopted a rather wishy washy kind of love. Like "everything goes type of love"

What type of love are we talking about? Hipi love? Muslim love? By Muslim love I don't mean terrorism. I once had an experience as a young man, early in my days out of my parentt house trying to make it for myself. I at one stage found myself pretty down and out.

But who was it that came to my rescue? Two Muslim families. God bless them for that. And neither of them asked me to come over to their religion.

But now, what have we more than them? Should we use them for our example?

I read in the Scripture speaks of Jesus chasing the people out of the temple with a whip of some sort. It even said "He looked upon them with anger"

When Judas complained about the poor Jesus said "the poor you will always have with you". Would this not have been the best time to express love?

Jesus walked pass many sick people to heal one person at the pool. He called gentiles dogs etc. How is that love?

And Jesus said, "many are called, few are chosen" So would love not include all. Could He not have chosen all?

I wonder sometimes if we Christians have the same idea of love that Christ had. In the book of Corinthians Paul even advised the church to loose a particular person and hand im over to satan for the destruction of the flesh. In effect, throwing this person out of the church. Do we still do that today if we come across someone in adultery? Would that be considered love?

Was it not Paul that said "though I speak with tounges of men and angels, without love it profiteth nothing"?

 

[brakelite]

What seems to be counterfeit to you may well and good to them. If a person regularly uses paper money to buy his groceries and the grocer accepts it and the banker accepts and even the Secret Service says it is legal tender, will you by confirming that it has no real value change the fact that he received his groceries for it and filled the bellies of his hungry children?

a child's ignorance is certainly forgiven, yes

Of course children do need to be growing, don't they? But if the parents withhold the proper chastisement, instruction and food, what is the likely result?

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Revelation 14:6 ¶ And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

I think that the time has come when everyone is called to worship in spirit and in truth.


Haggai 1:2 Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, This people say, The time is not come, the time that the LORD’S house should be built.
3 Then came the word of the LORD by Haggai the prophet, saying,
4 Is it time for you, O ye, to dwell in your cieled houses, and this house lie waste?
5 Now therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts; Consider your ways.
6 Ye have sown much, and bring in little; ye eat, but ye have not enough; ye drink, but ye are not filled with drink; ye clothe you, but there is none warm; and he that earneth wages earneth wages to put it into a bag with holes.
7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Consider your ways.

 

[bbyrd009]

Sure, but you remember that that verse is for a very specific people and circumstance. It should not be applied to us all, for all situations.

unless you recognize an earthly authority, certainly.
Does not apply to Anarchists, right
which is surely why Anarchy has been made into Chaos by the PTB

 

[bbyrd009]

Genuine worship is a connection between worshipper and God, which may manifest in a full range of behavior. I am not willing to judge a subjective experience

We now en masse pretty much all believe that worship is something done on Solday in a rented building we call church, that involves bowing and bended knee to wooden idols on the wall and songs about all of us going somewhere perfect after we have literally died, or when Jesus comes back to save us again, whichever comes first.

I'm not interested in judging it either Aspen; i am here to condemn that, and the reasons why should be obvious. Forgiven or not, the consequences for this behavior will still be experienced; forgiveness does not mean remission of consequences. All is forgiven, but our children will suffer nonetheless

Genuine worship is a connection between worshipper and God, which may manifest in a full range of behavior.

satan worship included? i don't think so wadr

 

[bbyrd009]

I think that the time has come when everyone is called to worship in spirit and in truth.

^

 

[amadeus]

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Revelation 14:6 ¶ And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

I think that the time has come when everyone is called to worship in spirit and in truth.


Haggai 1:2 Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, This people say, The time is not come, the time that the LORD’S house should be built.
3 Then came the word of the LORD by Haggai the prophet, saying,
4 Is it time for you, O ye, to dwell in your cieled houses, and this house lie waste?
5 Now therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts; Consider your ways.
6 Ye have sown much, and bring in little; ye eat, but ye have not enough; ye drink, but ye are not filled with drink; ye clothe you, but there is none warm; and he that earneth wages earneth wages to put it into a bag with holes.
7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Consider your ways.

The verses are very appropriate, but how many ministers are teaching or preaching them? And for those who are, how many of the would be hearers are hearing? Jesus, the Word came among us and He was rejected and crucified by the ones who should have flocked to His banner. After what should have been 2000 years of growth toward God using all that has given to man by God, why is so much around us look more like Babylon or Babel than the Body of Christ?

Help us dear Lord!

 

[amadeus]

We now en masse pretty much all believe that worship is something done on Solday in a rented building we call church, that involves bowing and bended knee to wooden idols on the wall and songs about all of us going somewhere perfect after we have literally died, or when Jesus comes back to save us again, whichever comes first.

While I hear you, it is not the buildings for gathering that are the primary problem as much as it is the people looking for an easy way to receive all of God's blessings and avoid any curses which might apply to them. People are lazy and selfish. I do not exclude myself in this... and those bearing the label of Christian may worst of all. All of us carnally speaking are like this, but which way are we moving: Toward that perfection Jesus manifested for us or away from it? He was selfless [as opposed to selfish] and in these verses we see where He was and where we need to be going:

"Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others." Phil 2:3-4

 

[brakelite]

The verses are very appropriate, but how many ministers are teaching or preaching them? And for those who are, how many of the would be hearers are hearing? Jesus, the Word came among us and He was rejected and crucified by the ones who should have flocked to His banner. After what should have been 2000 years of growth toward God using all that has given to man by God, why is so much around us look more like Babylon or Babel than the Body of Christ?

Help us dear Lord!

Okay. So while there is certainly a dearth of vision, and the people perishing all around us, there are still many in Israel who have not bored their knees to Baal. I spent the evening with this guy in my home last week, I recommend him if you are looking for truth and a challenging message.
http://www.itiswritten.com/

 

[brakelite]

The verses are very appropriate, but how many ministers are teaching or preaching them? And for those who are, how many of the would be hearers are hearing? Jesus, the Word came among us and He was rejected and crucified by the ones who should have flocked to His banner. After what should have been 2000 years of growth toward God using all that has given to man by God, why is so much around us look more like Babylon or Babel than the Body of Christ?

Help us dear Lord!

Okay. So while there is certainly a dearth of vision, and the people perishing all around us, there are still many in Israel who have not bowed their knees to Baal. I spent the evening with this guy personally in my home last week, I recommend him if you are looking for truth and a challenging message.
http://www.itiswritten.com/

 

[Heart2Soul]

I saw "Pet Doctrines" and I thought:

"Ha, finally a thread about animals."

Fully expecting some people claiming their pets go to heaven.

What a disappointment, it's not about pets at all.

 

[Heart2Soul]

So, i am still going to talk about my pet topic, which is loving others. It is interesting to watch others and myself confront and live with the reality of love.

1. I do not not want to love others - it is hard. I watch others struggle with this too. It is interesting the lengths we will go to in order to avoid it. All the doctrines, theology, dogma, ridiculously long sermons on genealogies and histories of dead people, liturgy, blah, blah.

We even imitate Luther and run away from all the bs by renoucing church completely - as if it is keeping us from a true relationship with Christ.......all it actually does is isolate us from the Body of Christ and limits our spiritual growth by limiting the people most in need of love a fellowship.

2. Approaching love like a dieter navigating healthy food is another avoidance tactic. Substituting a later helping of ice cream because you skipped a high calorie lunch.....substituting an obsession with the Bible and calling it love....

3. Here’s a new one.....honestly, i have never seen such boldness. Renouncing love as a weakness and proclaiming hatred for whomever you feel like hating - while calling yourself a Christian! Redefining the word ‘believe’ to simply mean ‘knowing of’ and possibly admiring, applying it to Christ and calling it good. Of course this requires us to ignore Jesus when he reminds us that even the demons know who God is and shudder.....

True spiritual growth requires the disciple to love others even when it is hard because we need the practice. Loving others is what we were created to do, but it has been warped into narcissistic self love, which is toxic. We are justified by Christ’s love sacrifice on the Cross and we are called to pick up our cross and follow Him by loving others through sacrifice and aervice. All this practice, submiting to the Holy Spirit and putting love into practice is the Good News.

I believe we were created in God’s image - God is Love - we are called to be love, once again. Practicing love is a spiritual discipline, necessay for us to come home like the prodical sons and daughters we are. Thankfully, when we are completely transformed, love will no longer feel like a burden - we will be naturals

Comments?

Well I am all about loving others.....it doesn't seem to be reciprocated back as I used to think it would but I have gotten past that …..I don't love people with the expectation of them loving me back.....a long time ago I asked God to give me a heart to love like He does, Agape love, unconditional....well I can honestly say I haven't quite mastered the unconditional love because when someone goes on the attack towards me, my flesh just rises up so fast and before I had time to restrain myself I have already said things I always regret later. But I do have a tremendous heart of compassion for others when they are going through trials and tribulations, I want to do whatever the Holy Spirit leads me to do for them....shelter, food, clothing, prayer,....I have even given my car away to a person I barely knew....I didn't pay much for it...like 1500....I just needed a vehicle to get to my next job (traveled and worked pipeline jobs)….so while I was there I was saving up for a better car anyway.

Some people just can't trust people enough let alone love them.....some from past hurts and some from introverted personalities, and others for whatever...

One of the things lacking in my life right now is someone in my life that loves me....my husband passed away in 1999 and it really does create such a yearning to have that in your life again....but typically we are programmed to love and to be loved....studies have shown that people without love in their life suffer a lot of physical issues. Love does conquer a lot of things.....

I believe if this was something that was really upsetting to God at this point in your life that He would start addressing it in you....precept upon precept line upon line.....so until He has brought you to that place to love others in a healthy way then it could get you hurt....make sense?

 

[Enoch111]

It's not often emphasized but the original Jesus movement did not simply demand that there was only one God, but rather that the only law was natural law.

Is this bizarre idea yours, or are you quoting someone else? You will find no such nonsense in the Bible.

 

[amadeus]

Okay. So while there is certainly a dearth of vision, and the people perishing all around us, there are still many in Israel who have not bored their knees to Baal. I spent the evening with this guy in my home last week, I recommend him if you are looking for truth and a challenging message.
http://www.itiswritten.com/

I have quickly visited the site and saved it for future reference. He has a couple of titles that sound interesting and I will probably view them later as I have time and the Lord leads. Of course, I must say that I was not and am not looking for change in where I am or in a person to lead me. The place where I am I will remain while my pastor [age 93] lives as that complies with a promise made to his wife before she died and to God. Anything outside that and what I am already doing on this forum and in other places is as God directs. Thank you for the link.

You may have noticed that I was already directed to one book by another member here which I am reading slowly, but time is always a factor for any of us. For example I was awake most of last night with my pastor who recently arrived home from a trip covering several states. He was physically exhausted and it hit him a hard way although he is much better today. This old man on the other hand is running on slow as I missed so much of my rest. A nap which is seldom an option for me is a definite one today. The body must rest.

Give God the glory!

 

[Helen]

@amadeus Bless you John for your faithful and kind ministry to your old Pastor.
May God bless you double. ✟

 

[TheHolyBookEnds]

The place where I am I will remain

What place is that, if I may so ask?

 

[TheHolyBookEnds]

Genuine worship is a connection between worshipper and God, which may manifest in a full range of behavior. I am not willing to judge a subjective experience

Genuine worship is defined by God's word, not subjectivity. Consider Cain and Abel. Cain, subjectively worshipped God, believed his experience was righteous. It wasn't. God said so, and gave Cain the opportunity to correct his subjective error to objective truth. God's word judges all experience, objective or subjective. All experience is to be tested by God's word, for it is the measurement of truth; Jhn. 12:48, 17:17; Isa. 8:20.