Concerning your post #343 The 'spirit of man' has everything to do with the body, soul, and breath of God. As I showed. No, we do not agree at all. Just because you select a couple of sentences from a paragraph I wrote does not mean we agree. And that which you left out shows why. You are turning to deception in picking here and there what you want to make it appear what I say. When that is not what I am saying at all. Once one must start doing that, he should question his position.
I was drawing a line between where we do and do not agree - not being deceptive.
There are three ingredients that make up a person. Body, soul, and spirit. You deny the spirit.
I'm going to slow this thing down to a crawl for you so absolutely no one can make a mistake whatsoever. Begin with Genesis 2:7:
1) "God formed Man of the
Dust of the Ground (component #1 = Body),
2) ...breathed into his nostrils the
Breath aka Spirit of Life (component #2 = God's Breath/Spirit),
3) ...and Man
became a
Living Soul (Resulting Whole produced from two above parts = Living Soul aka Person
Man was not given a Soul (as he was given the components Body and Breath/Spirit of God) - Man became a "Soul".
The "Soul" is not a component of Man - the Soul
IS a Man.
Man
became a Soul.
Man
became a Soul.
Man
became a Soul.
Man
BECAME a Soul.
MAN BECAME A SOUL.
4) Repeat steps 1 - 3
You deny the spirit of man. (Pro. 20:27) is clear.
Please, just read the context of Proverbs 20:27, will you?
"The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD
[...and here now is the context] searching all the inward parts of the belly."
Question: Who does the searching of the heart of Man - God or Man? Over and over and over, we read in Scripture that it's God Himself Who searches the heart of Man.
Man is never told to examine his heart because it is deceitful and tells him lies - however, man is indeed repeatedly told to examine his
actions to see if they line up with God's Law in His Word, which cannot lie.
Therefore, when you read "spirit of man...searches" in Proverbs 20:27, simply understand that here "spirit" is component #2 of Genesis 2:7 - GOD'S SPIRIT IN MAN.
If the body doesn't cease to exist, why do you say the breath of God ceases to exist as part of man.
A Body is made up of elements of the Periodic Table, and if you think the Body still exists after it disintegrates and becomes incorporated in soil, plants, animal supper, etc. then I know a good therapist for you ;) I say that the Breath of God ceases to be part of Man at his death because Ecclesiastes 12:7 says so:
"Then shall the Dust (Body) return to the Earth as it was and the Spirit (Breath) shall return to God Who gave it."
do you believe man has a spirit.
Yes, when Man's Body is given the Breath/Spirit of God, Man becomes a Living Soul - the Whole which is comprised of the two parts: Body and Breath/Spirit of God
Do you believe man is made up of body, soul, and spirit?
No, because Man was not given a Soul - Man
IS a Soul, according to Genesis 2:7.
Concerning (Heb. 4:12) you are being misleading. It doesn't say the dividing of soul and spirit 'like' the dividing of joints and marrow. It says the dividing of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow.
I'm not sure if English is your first language, but you might wanna review Schoolhouse Rock's "Conjunction Junction". Conjunctions connect two or more words, phrases, or clauses in a sentence in order to show the relationship between them.
So, when you read the phrase
"...of the soul and spirit" followed by the conjunction
"and" followed by the phrase
"...of the joints and marrow", the rules of English grammar clearly establish that a relationship between two different concepts is here displayed, and isn't a commentary on a singular concept, as you weakly suggest - for such a suggestion so butchers the English language that what is left resembles an alien autopsy. ;)
...when you say you know better of the wicked's judgement than God does
Please, either point to the post where I said that, or let it drop.
I never said that eternal judgement is a process.
Of course you didn't which is why you believe in "eternal torment". I said it in order to open you eyes to the fact that you are confusing "result" with "process".
As (Rev. 14:10-11) states. That they had no rest day or night speaks to experience. Not annihilation.
Yes, as long as people worship the Beast, they have no rest, day or night. There is no text which says the wicked will worship the Beast for eternity, but the Bible does say that the Beast will end up cast into the Lake of Fire along with the wicked and the worship of the Beast plus the resulting fatigue of the wicked who worship it will come to an end...when they are annihilated and cease to exist.
Doing gymnastics with the Greek doesn't change it.
Since when is citing the meaning of a Greek word from a Lexicon for someone who is ignorant of that meaning "mental gymnastics"? An example of "mental gymnastics" is your butchering of Hebrews 4:12 to make two grammatically distinct concepts merge into one.
The parable in (you list several different passages) is so called a parable.
Good grief, you are impossible. The parable that directly precedes the Rich Man and Lazarus begins identically to it.
Matthew plainly says Jesus would speak only in parables to the multitudes, which means the Rich Man and Lazarus was a parable, unless you think that Jesus was so naive as to give the Pharisees who heard Him speak about the Rich Man and Lazarus a private audience.
And a proper name is used, 'Lazarus' which indicates it is a real story and not a parable.
It's an "empty" explanation to claim that the reason Jesus used the name "Lazarus" was so the last words of the parable, "if they won't believe the Word of God, they won't believe though one rise from the dead" could be proven undeniably true in the lives of those Jews who were present when the real Lazarus rose from the dead, but went away in unbelief plotting to kill Him? Amazing what seems "empty" to those who are bent on making the Bible out to be what they want it to. I'd put my interpretation up against yours in the court of public opinion any day.
The story of Lazarus is not the only basis for understanding eternal judgement and torment from God upon the wicked.
Its a parable that has nothing to do with eternal judgment. It's just one of many other warnings to the Jews of the fate Israel could have avoided if they'd repented of their unbelief.
The place of Abraham's bosom was big enough to contain all the righteous that had died prior to the Cross and Resurrection.
LOL, so Abraham was several miles tall? Utter nonsense.
Those in Hades, both in Abraham's bosom and the torment section had spiritual bodies. And they saw, felt, tasted, and hurt.
I just want one single text to support this equally nonsensical idea.
The torment section of Hades is not the lake of fire. It is however a place of torment.
But the Rich Man said HIMSELF that he was tormented in flame! You're just making this up as you go, aren't you?
You are reading in Scripture where the righteous in Hades did speak to the wicked in torment in (Luke 16:19-31).
I'm reading in a parable where the righteous and wicked speak on to another, something that never occurs in all of Scripture.
As for Saul being raised to speak to Saul, yes it was Samuel.
The Bible indeed calls the one Saul spoke to "Samuel" but also calls it a "familiar spirit" (1 Chronicles 10:13) which is a demon impersonating dead folks. How could dead "Samuel":
- know things about Saul and the battle, when Solomon says the dead know not anything (Ecclesiastes 9:5)?
- remember anything, when Solomon says the memory of (the dead) is forgotten (Ecclesiastes 9:5)?
- be disquieted, when Solomon says the dead feel no emotions (Ecclesiastes 9:6)?
- impart wisdom to Saul, when Solomon says the dead have no wisdom (Ecclesiastes 9:10)?
- return to the land of the living, when Job said the dead return no more (Job 7:10)?
- have had a portion of things under the sun, when Solomon says the dead have no portion with anything that is under the sun (Ecclesiastes 9:6)?
Your only example of "dead man talking" is just a demon lying to Saul about where he would be after his death.
Were Moses and Elijah just familiar spirits with Christ on the Mount of Transfiguration?
No, Moses had already been resurrected (Jude 1:9) and was there with Elijah and Jesus, all three with glorified bodies.
Concerning (Matt. 13:34) the parables Jesus spoke of were parables concerning the mystery form of the kingdom of heaven. (13:11) "...Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given." Jesus spoke many things without a parable. But concerning the kingdom, which had been rejected He would not speak anymore save through parable.
So, was Matthew lying when he said that Jesus would only speak to the multitude in parable? Because He was speaking to the multitude when He spoke the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus.
