Does Scripture Endorse Being Derisive?

[bbyrd009]

doesn't seem to fit with the principle that many are children in the faith and need to be treated more gently.

ok, sounds great, what do you propose here?

 

[bbyrd009]

Nobody invites blasphemous heathens and publicans for dinner.

except Jesus, yeh

 

[bbyrd009]

Heartbreak is an ego thing - it is tied to expectations. God knows who we are - we are the party in the relationship that do not know who we really are.

ah ty, that is what i was trying to express

 

[Hidden In Him]

Heartbreak is an ego thing - it is tied to expectations. God knows who we are - we are the party in the relationship that do not know who we really are. God is trying help us to look underneath the mask we wear and discover our true self

I dunno about this one, aspen. Luke 13:34-35 seems to suggest the Lord was heartbroken over Jerusalem. The imagery is distinctly emotional in nature. Given that He is without question a Loving God, how would not that same love and tenderness be made manifest in His servants?

Paul used similar tender imagery in writing to the Thessalonians in his first letter:

"For at no time did we come to you with a word of flattery, as you know, nor with any pretext of covetousness, God is our witness, nor did we seek glory from men - not from you or from others - [despite] having the power to be heavy-handed as apostles of Christ. But we were gentle in your midst, as a nursemaid cherishing her own children. Thus, longing for you, we were pleased to have imparted to you not only the gospel of God but our own souls as well, because you became dearly beloved to us. For you remember, brothers, our labor and toil. We proclaimed the gospel of God to you while working night and day, so as not to be a financial burden to any of you." (1 Thessalonians 2:5-9)

This is deliberately tender imagery, and bearing their own souls to them means sharing with them very personal matters from the heart.

 

[Hidden In Him]

What would you do if someone called your mother a whore in front of you, her, and in public?
I'd break his nose if it were my mother, and be justified in doing so.

I don't normally disagree with your posts, epostle1, but in this case I'm not sure I can agree. While there are situations where I'd like taking people apart as well, I wouldn't justify those feelings in a situation like you described as being condoned by God. I would be more inclined to admit it was something I had to deal with before the sun went down.

 

[Hidden In Him]

deliberately derisive? imo of course not, but then do you think Scripture condones being offended, or not?

"Condones" as in something others give themselves to freely? God forbid. While I try not to offend people by saying this too often, I actually get irritated with those who constantly whine about how mistreated they are all the time (such as the "Black Lives Matter" and similar groups). I'm not the least prejudiced and want them to be treated fairly, and I also think they should speak out publicly against injustice. I regard Martin Luther King Jr. as a great man. But this constant whining about every little thing just comes off to me as communicating a constant spirit of resentment, and not being willing to reconcile, which hurts their cause more than its helps it. For that matter, some of the things Christians now define as "persecution" just strikes me as pitiful and whinny as well.

Again, as per Post #37, for me it is a question about how does responsible Christian leadership react in the matter. It's not a defense of coddling those who need to get over their pity parties and making people feel sorry for them every day of the week; it's about making sure that legitimate complaints about verbal abuse and other forms of mistreatment are properly chastised so that it not be endorsed by lack of response, as if it should be overlooked when someone's heart has indeed been wounded, and unjustifiably so.

 

[Naomi25]

Wonderful verse. And thanks for the full response, sister. I may respond in full later, but for now I'd like some more participants, since I know many take positions on the issue both favorable and unfavorable.

@Enoch111, @OzSpen, @Frank Lee, @amadeus, @lforrest (especially), @emekrus, @GodsGrace, @Heart2Soul, @Triumph1300, @epostle1, @Rollo Tamasi, @brakelite, @Harvest 1874, @quietthinker, @TheHolyBookEnds, @Naomi25, @Dcopymope, I'd like your inputs here as well if possible. Also invited to share, despite taking what I suspect might be the contrarian position to mine (since they have taken it in the past): @Phoneman777, @Stranger, possibly others. I want an honest and open debate.

Whoever might have been missed or forgotten by accident, please forgive me.
Hidden

I've only just seen this, and I'm afraid I don't have the time at the moment to read through the thread, sadly. I'm up to my eyeballs in finishing a craft project for the kids club our church is having these holidays...I'm on a deadline!

But...very quickly...when it comes down to it, I'd say in these matters, we need to consider the end goal. What will bring most glory to God? Under that comes many things, I suppose: magnifying his name, his truth, his love. Standing for unity in his body, winning souls for him...that sort of thing.

I am reminded of Paul:

To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some. I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share with them in its blessings. - 1 Corinthians 9:22–23

He clearly felt that it was important to meet each situation as it came, for the glory of God and to going forth of the gospel. And while sometimes love, and truth, can be "hard"....it's almost universally excepted that no-one responds well to derision and mockery. If we want to reach people and make the most of our God...then we should withhold the sort of negative emotions that will repulse people and turn them away.

 

[aspen]

Not all persecution you encounter is because of Jesus - you might just be a jerk.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I've only just seen this, and I'm afraid I don't have the time at the moment to read through the thread, sadly. I'm up to my eyeballs in finishing a craft project for the kids club our church is having these holidays...I'm on a deadline!

But...very quickly...when it comes down to it, I'd say in these matters, we need to consider the end goal. What will bring most glory to God? Under that comes many things, I suppose: magnifying his name, his truth, his love. Standing for unity in his body, winning souls for him...that sort of thing.

I am reminded of Paul:

To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some. I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share with them in its blessings. - 1 Corinthians 9:22–23

He clearly felt that it was important to meet each situation as it came, for the glory of God and to going forth of the gospel. And while sometimes love, and truth, can be "hard"....it's almost universally excepted that no-one responds well to derision and mockery. If we want to reach people and make the most of our God...then we should withhold the sort of negative emotions that will repulse people and turn them away.

Though-provoking response, and take your time on your kid's club stuff. When you have time, are you arguing that there may be instances where it might be beneficial to be insulting to someone if it causes them to react? I'd like a little more clarification if you could.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Not all persecution you encounter is because of Jesus - you might just be a jerk.

LoL. I agree. *laughing*

 

[Helen]

Not all persecution you encounter is because of Jesus - you might just be a jerk.

Very true indeed...that hit the nail didn't it!

.... . . . .

 

[brakelite]

this pov will keep you from further truth imo; Christ went willingly, so the pain and anguish are ours; we just project them onto God

I agree re the willingness, but why would not the angels wonder, and hope if there might be a change in mind? Nor should we ever think that God cannot be an emotional being that was horrified at the treatment dished out to His Son...but suffered it for your sake. Anyway, my point in the post was that if God can be so patient with all the putrid garbage we offer him, why should we be insulting one another and abusing others, over matters of faith for goodness sake?

 

[Helen]

Nor should we ever think that God cannot be an emotional being that was horrified at the treatment dished out to His Son...but suffered it for your sake

Hey there Brakelight
I just wondered about this quote of yours...what instantly popped into my mind was Isa 53.

I don't believe that anything can be a surprise to God.
It was Him who planned it all, it was all His idea.


10 "Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied "
The debt was paid.


No biggie, just a thought.
Bless you ..Helen

 

[Hidden In Him]

I agree re the willingness, but why would not the angels wonder, and hope if there might be a change in mind? Nor should we ever think that God cannot be an emotional being that was horrified at the treatment dished out to His Son...but suffered it for your sake. Anyway, my point in the post was that if God can be so patient with all the putrid garbage we offer him, why should we be insulting one another and abusing others, over matters of faith for goodness sake?

I like this post. I took your first post in a somewhat different way, but this one clarifies it for me and I agree fully!

 

[epostle1]

Ok, gotcha. Thanks for the response. Now in being here, do you feel scripture endorses being derisive or no?

do you feel scripture endorses misrepresentations, lies, slander and blind prejudice yes or no?

"Condones" as in something others give themselves to freely? God forbid. While I try not to offend people by saying this too often, I actually get irritated with those who constantly whine about how mistreated they are all the time (such as the "Black Lives Matter" and similar groups). I'm not the least prejudiced and want them to be treated fairly, and I also think they should speak out publicly against injustice.

Does this mean you are no longer a prejudiced anti-Catholic?

I regard Martin Luther King Jr. as a great man. But this constant whining about every little thing just comes off to me as communicating a constant spirit of resentment, and not being willing to reconcile, which hurts their cause more than its helps it. For that matter, some of the things Christians now define as "persecution" just strikes me as pitiful and whinny as well.

I can't imagine who these pitiful whinners could be, could you be specific?

Again, as per Post #37, for me it is a question about how does responsible Christian leadership react in the matter. It's not a defense of coddling those who need to get over their pity parties and making people feel sorry for them every day of the week; it's about making sure that legitimate complaints about verbal abuse and other forms of mistreatment are properly chastised so that it not be endorsed by lack of response, as if it should be overlooked when someone's heart has indeed been wounded, and unjustifiably so.

I feel the same way. The SDA bombardments don't belong here. Reports go ignored, my thread called "UNWRITTEN AMENDMENTS TO THE RULES" got deleted. I was told, by private message, my account here would get restrictions if I complained against the moderators. It's against the rules.

 

[Enoch111]

Hey there Break

If anything it would be "Brake". But brakes also break, so you have a point.:cool:

 

[Helen]

If anything it would be "Brake". But brakes also break, so you have a point.:cool:

Oh right, wow I see my mistake....you well and truly caught me there in that didn’t you
I will have to go back and fix it!
Thanks

 

[Hidden In Him]

do you feel scripture endorses misrepresentations, lies, slander and blind prejudice yes or no?

No.

Does this mean you are no longer a prejudiced anti-Catholic?

I never was a prejudiced anti-Catholic. I got saved partly because of the influence of EWTN. I've had neighbors who were Catholics whom I've had wonderful conversations with, and who I count as friends. I did an interpretation for a Catholic woman a few months back that spoke quite positively about her church, and was not biased in the interpretation I gave her despite having personal disagreements with a number of the Catholic doctrines. (Don't ask me which those are. I avoid unnecessary confrontation).

I can't imagine who these pitiful whinners could be, could you be specific?

I could show you on other Forums for starters, but I have no interest.

I feel the same way. The SDA bombardments don't belong here. Reports go ignored, my thread called "UNWRITTEN AMENDMENTS TO THE RULES" got deleted. I was told, by private message, my account here would get restrictions if I complained against the moderators. It's against the rules.

I can't speak to this, epostle. I have my own issues, and I have to respect the decisions leadership makes whenever I join any organization. Will I agree with everything? In all likelihood not. But I have to abide by it. This is not my website. It is owned and run by others.

If I sound like I'm coming to their defense in the matter, I actually have no idea about the situation. I'm simply relaying what my stance would have to be.

 

[amadeus]

The short answer is "NO".

We must address the issue or the topic at hand, and if something does not line up with Scripture, that must be shown from the Bible. But we need to avoid any personal attacks, or putting anyone down personally. However, denominations, cults, false teachers and false prophets should be shown to be in error (if that is the case), since we do not know who is searching for the truth and the right church.

The problem is that everyone believes they are correct while the guy who disagrees with them is of course in error. So then each of is correcting the other but the key I see is that anyone who does so in the wrong spirit is in error even if his arguments really are correct. It comes back to I Corinthians chapter 13. Without charity we are a lot of noise; we are nothing... at least nothing good to God.

Certainly on an open forum if we cannot correct with the right Spirit, it is best to remain silent.

 

[amadeus]

this pov will keep you from further truth imo; Christ went willingly, so the pain and anguish are ours; we just project them onto God

People, certainly too often including you and me, want to put forth their way of thinking and acting on behalf of God. How well are we really able to love our enemies? Consider Jesus response to his followers when they suggested that fire be called down from heaven on certain people...

"But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village." Luke 9:55-56