Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[GodsGrace]

APEK

FAITH is another misunderstood concept.
Everything has TWO understanding...Carnal and Spiritual.

Any carnal minded man can have faith. You may have faith in your wife that she will prepare you supper tonite.

However Spiritual Faith, is a GIFT from God.
Men are rather limited weak peons in the big scheme of things.

Every time a man....puts forth the effort...to HEAR or READ the Word of God...THAT does not make the man Saved....but it does gain favor with God. It gains favor with God...precisely because it was the mans effort to decide to Hear and Read.....Gods Word.

God blesses such a man WITH a gift from God. That gift is called FAITH. Every time a man is Hearing or Reading the Word of God, whether or not the man has decided to BELIEVE what he is hearing or reading, HE IS by default BEING ENLIGHTEND with Gods Word...

Does that mean the man IS Saved? No.
Does that mean God gives the man a FULL measure of FAITH-FULLNES? No.

It does mean that man is doing something Gods finds favorable.
It does mean IF the man "continues" hearing and reading....God will gift that man with more measures of his gift of Faith.

It is by and through this Continued Process, that a man GAINS enough Faith, to BE prepared, to submit his life to the Lord and become converted. And forever receive FULL FAITH-FULL-Ness...to the Lord....and BE KEPT in FULL Faith-full-ness TO the Lord ONLY, BY the subsequently received indwelling Power of God.

AT ANY TIME....BEFORE "conversion"...a man can STOP hearing, reading, being enlightened, and thus STOPS receiving Faith increases.

Also a man can do ^^^ THAT, AND STOP, believing what he has heard and read....this is a man that is called.....Fallen from Faith.

A Converted man CAN NOT fall from faith...
However a man NOT converted, having had been receiving enlightment, receiving faith, believing....then stops believing...CAN fall from Faith. His Salvation is in jeopardy, that he will not receive it.....less he again begins hearing, learning, BELIEVING, and receiving faith from God...and becomes converted.

Everyone is an individual. Some delve in to being enlightened, beliieve, are gifted with faith, their faith highly increased because they DELVE in ....

While others are content with hearing, once a week, once a month, once a year....so will their receiving of faith from God, be just as lax. Their journey to receiving a conversion and salvation and quickened spirit...will obviously be a long drawn out journey.

Hearing, Reading....The WORD of God IS the precise Catalyst that sets everything in motion....to what a natural man IS, to what a natural man, MAY become.

And everything OF a natural man, (body, soul, spirit, mind) becomes effected during his journey By what he freely Chooses to do, not do, start, quit, start again, stick with it, or completely reject it......and God is in the mix during a mans journey...either blessing the man, gifting the man..or rejecting the man who rejects Him.

God Bless,
Taken

Wow. I see you've come up with an explanation for all those difficult verses in the NT that speak to the loss of salvation!

No one is really saved until they're saved according to YOUR description of salvation.
Giving you a great way out for explaining those that decide to leave God.
Make it easy on yourself and just say they were never saved to begin with,,, like Calvinists do.
They've already invented this idea...

 

[GodsGrace]

In the eyes of the world and other people I can sin through my soul and its will. It is of the law. Since I am born again I do not sin anymore as I'm NOT under the law anymore.

You believe you never sin?

 

[APAK]

You believe you never sin?

Correct. There is not a separation from God anymore

 

[Taken]

Taken, your posts are too long and leave me with too much to handle.

Yes my post are long when explaining a complex topic. In point to not leave out a point.

The way you understand the heart is not right.
The heart does NOT THINK.

I didn't say the Heart "thinks".
The spirit in the heart has it's own thoughts, and it's thoughts are the mans TRUTH.

TO say the thoughts in the HEART...is likened to saying the thoughts in your BRAIN..

The heart is simply the chamber, the vessel, wher the spirit is and the spirits TRUE thoughts.

The Brain is simply a vessel, where the Mind and its thoughts are...which may be true or false.

It has already been determined by minds better than ours how we are made up.

I would agree, very intelligent minds, and men skilled in experimenting, trials and errors have discovered some very interesting Facts about the complexity and capabilities of the BRAIN; its Mind thinking part, its memory abilities, its processing of information abilities, etc.

But I rather TRUST God, in the BIG Picture of what He has made natural, and HOW He has provided a way to change, restore, make anew, what is acceptable TO Him, for a natural man to become worthy to forever BE alive and BE WITH Him.

Some believe in the dichotomy of man: Body and Soul. The spirit resides in the soul. This is problematic for me but could be accepted.

God IS Spirit. What he gives to man IS a Spiritual thing.
He gives to all living men, a soul with HIS breath of Life.
He gives to some living men, a new spirit, with His Seed and Spirit of Truth.
He gives to some living men, a restored soul,
With His Holy Spirit.

So, the soul, a saved and the born again spirit of man, each have the Spirit of God within them.

It is all by the same ONE Spirit of God...but are given a man at different times, and by different ways, and called different things.

There is Scripture that speaks of the Seven spirit of God. It is ALL ONE Spirit of God, but they have different functions....when given to men.

Some believe in the trichotomy of man. This is far easier to understand and to explain. I believe in this.

Trichotomy...a Scriptural Word? No.
It is simply a word to describe how certain men have tried to put into words, the understanding of Gods complexity of a man.

Any other explanation is of your own doing and understanding.

Prove it...!!
You are simply saying...you believe the explanation of men who call their explanation Trichotomy.

I simply say...I ask God for His understanding. I can put into my words what I receive from Him.
It is too long winded for you to read, and I can not read it for you, or understand it for you.

You can accept and understand anything the way you want to,

That is correct. And I have already disclosed WHAT, HOW, and the WAY, I want to and do.

but it will not be accepted by mainline Christianity.

I don't ask ANYONE to accept or believe what I ACCEPT.

You have already disclosed you accept a mans explanation called Trichotomy.
That is your choice.

I chose a different path, to accept. I chose to ask the SOURCE myself.
Which is the precise WAY, the SOURCE Himself, teaches.
Which is the precise WAY, I say for others TO ALSO DO.

We can't make up our own rules.

Sure we can. People do it all the time.
Philosophers do it. Think in their MINDS, what they believe Scripture means.
And many men adopt their conclusions.
Men think in their own minds, and decide what Scirpture means, and adopt their own minds interpretation as their Belief.

You just did. You adopted mens thoughts and conclusions they call Trictotomy.
Where did their thoughts and conclusions come from? Their own meeting of the their minds, or from God?

You've written too much. If you could cut it down, I'd be happy to discuss things with you...this is how I get new insight that others might have. But you post just too much....

I can cut it down for you, to you specific...because you and I are already not on the same page.

TO APAK, he and I are closer in similarity of knowledge and understanding.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[GodsGrace]

Correct. There is not a separation from God anymore

I see.
So maybe you were right...
I am a carnal Christian because I still sin and I ask God's forgiveness, as John said to do.

 

[APAK]

I see.
So maybe you were right...
I am a carnal Christian because I still sin and I ask God's forgiveness, as John said to do.

Now for example in 1 John 3:1
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. (NIV)..
This illustrated my view..

In the eyes of the world we sin (all) and even if we have the seed of God will be also minimize sin in the eyes of world. Whether we do or not we do not sin, in the eyes of God, as a believer, with his seed.

 

[Heb 13:8]

They are WARNINGS nonetheless.
What good is a warning if there are NO consequences?

The consequence is in Heb 12:4-13.

Heb 12:6 because the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son."

1 Jhn 5:12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes my post are long when explaining a complex topic. In point to not leave out a point.



I didn't say the Heart "thinks".
The spirit in the heart has it's own thoughts, and it's thoughts are the mans TRUTH.

TO say the thoughts in the HEART...is likened to saying the thoughts in your BRAIN..

The heart is simply the chamber, the vessel, wher the spirit is and the spirits TRUE thoughts.

The Brain is simply a vessel, where the Mind and its thoughts are...which may be true or false.



I would agree, very intelligent minds, and men skilled in experimenting, trials and errors have discovered some very interesting Facts about the complexity and capabilities of the BRAIN; its Mind thinking part, its memory abilities, its processing of information abilities, etc.

But I rather TRUST God, in the BIG Picture of what He has made natural, and HOW He has provided a way to change, restore, make anew, what is acceptable TO Him, for a natural man to become worthy to forever BE alive and BE WITH Him.



God IS Spirit. What he gives to man IS a Spiritual thing.
He gives to all living men, a soul with HIS breath of Life.
He gives to some living men, a new spirit, with His Seed and Spirit of Truth.
He gives to some living men, a restored soul,
With His Holy Spirit.

So, the soul, a saved and the born again spirit of man, each have the Spirit of God within them.

It is all by the same ONE Spirit of God...but are given a man at different times, and by different ways, and called different things.

There is Scripture that speaks of the Seven spirit of God. It is ALL ONE Spirit of God, but they have different functions....when given to men.



Trichotomy...a Scriptural Word? No.
It is simply a word to describe how certain men have tried to put into words, the understanding of Gods complexity of a man.



Prove it...!!
You are simply saying...you believe the explanation of men who call their explanation Trichotomy.

I simply say...I ask God for His understanding. I can put into my words what I receive from Him.
It is too long winded for you to read, and I can not read it for you, or understand it for you.



That is correct. And I have already disclosed WHAT, HOW, and the WAY, I want to and do.



I don't ask ANYONE to accept or believe what I ACCEPT.

You have already disclosed you accept a mans explanation called Trichotomy.
That is your choice.

I chose a different path, to accept. I chose to ask the SOURCE myself.
Which is the precise WAY, the SOURCE Himself, teaches.
Which is the precise WAY, I say for others TO ALSO DO.



Sure we can. People do it all the time.
Philosophers do it. Think in their MINDS, what they believe Scripture means.
And many men adopt their conclusions.
Men think in their own minds, and decide what Scirpture means, and adopt their own minds interpretation as their Belief.

You just did. You adopted mens thoughts and conclusions they call Trictotomy.
Where did their thoughts and conclusions come from? Their own meeting of the their minds, or from God?



I can cut it down for you, to you specific...because you and I are already not on the same page.

TO APAK, he and I are closer in similarity of knowledge and understanding.

God Bless,
Taken

I'll tell you this Taken.
The NT is very easy to understand.
Man tends to make it difficult.
You're doing the same.
Making up your own rules, words and ideas.
Christianity was here a long time before you were.

 

[Taken]

We have the spirit and the soul.
We often refer to this as the flesh and the spirit.
The flesh being the soul and the spirit being the spirit (of God awakened in us).

The BODY is the flesh. It's life is Blood.
The SOUL is imparted into the body. It's life is Gods Breath.
THe SPIRIT..."natural" of a man, is "his" truth in his heart.
The SPIRIT...of a born again man, is "Gods"Truth in the mans "NEW" heart.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[GodsGrace]

The consequence is in Heb 12:4-13.

Heb 12:6 because the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son."

1 John 5:12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

So if I'm born again, and then miss my life full of sin and decide to return to it, God will "chasten"
me by making me become sick from all the heroine I inject into my body,,,but I'll still be saved?;

 

[Heb 13:8]

So if I'm born again, and then miss my life full of sin and decide to return to it, God will "chasten" me by making me become sick from all the heroine I inject into my body,,,but I'll still be saved?;

2 Cor 10:5 We destroy every proud obstacle that keeps people from knowing God. We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach them to obey Christ.

 

[GodsGrace]

Now for example in 1 John 3:1
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. (NIV)..
This illustrated my view..

In the eyes of the world we sin (all) and even if we have the seed of God will be also minimize sin in the eyes of world. Whether we do or not we do not sin, in the eyes of God, as a believer, with his seed.

So you're saying that positionally, in God, you do not sin.
In 1 John the expression "will continue to sin" means that we will not live a life of sin.
The meaning is established,,,it's not something we have to wonder about.
Why would Jesus ask us to confess our sins if we are positionally not sinning in God's eyes?

 

[GodsGrace]

2 Cor 10:5 We destroy every proud obstacle that keeps people from knowing God. We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach them to obey Christ.

Could you explain this scripture?

 

[GodsGrace]

The BODY is the flesh. It's life is Blood.
The SOUL is imparted into the body. It's life is Gods Breath.
THe SPIRIT..."natural" of a man, is "his" truth in his heart.
The SPIRIT...of a born again man, is "Gods"Truth in the mans "NEW" heart.

God Bless,
Taken

The natural man does not possess spirit.

 

[APAK]

So if I'm born again, and then miss my life full of sin and decide to return to it, God will "chasten"
me by making me become sick from all the heroine I inject into my body,,,but I'll still be saved?;

GodsGrace: I do not know your situation and thank you dearly for sharing this...
BL: YOU ARE STILL and ALWAYS ARE SAVED as you can rejoice that your spirit acknowledges that God is within you.
Unfortunately we have consequences for what we do in our body...regardless, God does love you and he want to keep YOUR spirit for salvation.
No one can take that from him..not even you, once you have the love of God in you

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Taken]

Wow. I see you've come up with an explanation for all those difficult verses in the NT that speak to the loss of salvation!

Uh huh.
Matt 7:7...seek and ye shall find...

No one is really saved until they're saved according to YOUR description of salvation.

Actually according to Scripture...
God saves SOULS.
God saves SOULS by RESTORING THEM.
A restored SOUL IS a SAVED SOUL.
A restored SOUL is RESTORED when a man gives his life to Christ.

Hearing, learning, men following Jesus around, men hearing disciples talk, men hearing preacher talk, men discussing Scripture, blah, blah, blah........
IS NOT MEN receiving Salvation.

Giving you a great way out for explaining those that decide to leave God.

Perhaps you should read Scripture and SEE how God gives a man his own way out to reject God......

ANY man can hear, follow, shout whoo hoo, I believe, doubt, deny, say I believe, listen, follow, shout Amen, sing songs designed to Praise God, go to church, have supper with Pastors...............AND NOT BE SAVED!!

SALVATION is the saving of a mans SOUL!
It is a GIFT, given a man WHO reaches out and TAKES the Gift ... and the HOW he takes the gift is expressly revealed in Scirpture...and HOW the man receives the gift is expressly revealed in Scirpture.

THAT gift is offered to all....even your husband. He has to TAKE IT, for Him to possess it....but yet without that gift, your husband still dines with you, lives with you, has conversations with you....probably has very similar knowledge you do....so what?

We see people like that all the time....they are expressly written about in Scirpture...
And have NOT received or possess the gift of salvation....because they didn't TAKE IT....
And yep...IF they never receive their salvation....they have lost it....Lost the opportunity to receive what was provided for them to receive, but they chose not to.

Make it easy on yourself and just say they were never saved to begin with,,,

Well no duh they were NOT saved to BEGIN WITH....All men begin in SIN....so their BEGINNNIG is being separated from God.

Begin in SIN, grow in SIN, hear about God, hear about HIS OFFERING OF SALVATION...

And TAKE IT....whoop whoop, you're soul IS saved.

Hear about Gods offering of Salvation...and eh...maybe watch football instead...or listen a bit...and maybe go to the beach, or run the kids, or work, or go fishing, or watch tv...

Not exactly a newsflash, hearing the Word of God rarely lands at the TOP of the majority of mens lists to TO DO things....not in Jesus' day, not today.

And not a newsflash, a commitment TO conversion IS Permanent. And Men do not fair well in IN Permanent Commitments.

Marriage for ages was honored as a Permanent commitment between a man and a woman....but that has become exponentially LAXED....and so too has a Permanent commitment TO the Lord...where, Divorcing oneself OUT of the commitment TO the Lord is not POSSIBLE.
The commitment is not KEPT by WILLPOWER of a man......but RATHER by the WILL-POWER of God!

You do not comprehend that.

You seemingly also do not comprehend the difference Between learning and believing in the Lord...and a man KEEPING his ability to WALK away from the Lord.and a Commited Vow of Belief, that is forever KEPT by God.

like Calvinists do.
They've already invented this idea...

I suppose this is meant to be a dig.
Whatever.
I do not know what all "Calvinists" believe...
But apparently some who are NOT "Calvinists" ARE thee authority ON a Calvinist Beliefs.

You may believe "Calvinists" "INVENTED", that a man who has not RECEIVED Salvation, doesn't Possess Salvation......

But the Truth is...Calvinists did not INVENT THAT....that is Knowledge God has provided.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

The natural man does not possess spirit.

Huh!....Well, then, by that standard.....
A man could NEVER have his "spirit" ...
BORN AGAIN....and the Lord would be a liar.

The LORD "forms" a mans BODY...
Gen. 2:7

And The LORD "forms" a mans spirit within him...
Zech 12:1

And the Lord says to BE with the Lord, a man MUST be born again.
John 3:3

And the Lord gives man HIS SEED to birth the man a born again spirit.
1 Pet 1:23

If a man HAS NOT a spirit, as you say, there is nothing to be born again...and Scripture is a lie.

Obviously, I disagree with you.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

So if I'm born again, and then miss my life full of sin and decide to return to it,

First of all.....you can not RETURN TO SIN.

You need to figure out what SIN is in application TO YOU.

Did God forgive you of shooting up herion or forgive you for NOT believing in Him?

Jews SIN wasn't disbelief in God.....it was Disobedience to the Law!
Once Jesus arrived...their SIN is also...NOT believing in Christ Jesus, as their Messiah.

If you ARE save and would rather shoot up herion than stay active in HIS WORD and Fellowhipping spirit to Spirit with him...

Go shoot up herion...you can freely choose to do so.

God will "chasten"
me by making me become sick from all the heroine I inject into my body

God does nothing TO YOU. He ALLOWS you to suffer the consequences of your freewill choice.
IF you become sick, it was because of your choice to shoot heroine...He didn't make you or stop you....YOU get to deal with the consequences of your choices.

Sick, broke, strung out, arrested, family abandoned you....whatever...you get to deal with the consequences.

He promises to be available to Comfort you.
So, you can call on Him and cry to Him and whine about how weak you are....and He can comfort you and give you the strength you desire....IF that is your desire.

,but I'll still be saved?;

Still be saved..? Of course you would still be saved. Once given, God does not take back His gift of Salvation He gives to a man.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

First of all, How about leaving your OPINON out of the conversation, and stick to the FACTS?
No one cares of your OPINION of John Calvin.
Now you present a FACT.
Saying John Calvin's understanding is based in Scripture. Okay.
What Scripture?
That is simply again, your opinion.
What Scripture did Calvin base his understanding on?
But you fail to say what these Several Scriptures are that Calvin used.
AND "IF" these Scriptures were John Calivin's basis for HIS understanding.
Now twice you have slandered John Calvin, with nothing more than your opinion, and no pertinent facts.
So after slandering John Calvin, and giving your opinion....you are going to attempt to PROVE John Calvin wrong....with ONLY your Scriptures?
How is that JUST, to only have YOUR opinion and YOUR selected Scriptures?
How about the FACTS and Scripture according to Calvin? Why did you not include that?

Why don't you calm down and actually R*E*A*D what I wrote instead of going on another psychotic, verbose rant.
I never "slandered" Calvin or anybody else. I denigrated his position on OSAS - NOT the man, so get your facts straight.

Secondly - I stated that this false doctrine is based on a misrepresentation of Scripture by ignoring the CONTEXT of Scripture.

Initial Salvation
LIFELONG

process
WILL BE SAVED Final Sanctification/Salvation
So you have listed four phases of YOUR Salvation.
What do you believe is being acutally SAVED, during each Phase?
Could you repeat Each phase, and write next to it what exactly IS being Saved during that phase?
Your body? Your soul? Your spirit? All 3?
Something other than that?

Apparently, you are having great difficulty reading so I'll put it to you plainly:
The "phases" are:
Initial salvation.
Maintaining salvation through enduring faith.
Final salvation.

Here is an even simpler explanation:
- You're drowning in a storm at sea (lost in sin).
-A boat comes by to rescue you and you get in (Initial salvation).
-You work with the Captain to keep the boat afloat in the storm (Ongoing salvation).
-You reach dry land and are finally out of the storm (Final salvation).

At ANY time - you can stop working with the Captain and jump off the boat
It's as simple as that . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

The consequence is in Heb 12:4-13.
Heb 12:6 because the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son."
1 Jhn 5:12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

No - the consequences, as I have presented them ad nauseam are Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19.