Once in Heaven, can you lose your salvation?

[Stranger]

And? Does that somehow UNDO, anything I said? LOL

Nothing can untie that mess.

Stranger

 

[verzanumi24]

No the point is we have to go to Jesus for understanding so we wont keep throwing C...p into the fan.

And where in the scripture did Jesus defined Heaven?

 

[mjrhealth]

And where in the scripture did Jesus defined Heaven?

What has this to do with ones salvation, are you just not arguing over something you "think" you know the answer too.

Mat_5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat_5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat_5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Mat_5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Mat_6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

Mat_13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
Mat_13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
Mat_13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
Mat_13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
Mat_13:45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
Mat_13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:

need more just read your bible.

 

[verzanumi24]

In my studies I have found that "Many mansions" means many places, many levels, within God, He is the only House...

This is the goal...this is what Paul "pushed toward" ...The High Calling...

That is what I saw as I studied " Mansions" . Not some big private house , one for each of us!!!!
Nothing is separate from God Himself.

Actually, the scriptures never referes to God as a house. But on the contray, it is God who lives in His people. The mansons or places, levels is refering to positions of authority. The scriptures tells us that the saints will be crown kings and rule with Jesus. Each indivdual will have their own position of authority, and their position will be determined by how well they use their gifts. If one dosen't use their gifts, they will not be in the kingdom of God.

 

[verzanumi24]

What has this to do with ones salvation, are you just not arguing over something you "think" you know the answer too.

Mat_5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat_5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat_5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Mat_5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Mat_6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

Mat_13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
Mat_13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
Mat_13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
Mat_13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
Mat_13:45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
Mat_13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:

need more just read your bible.

mjrhealth said, No the point is we have to go to Jesus for understanding so we wont keep throwing C...p into the fan.

So my question was in regards to his statment.

 

[Helen]

So you don't understand the Spirit of the Book...just the letter of the Book.

 

[Dcopymope]

That scripture you are refering to is not a description of Heaven, but represents the Nations. It's symbolically describing a time in which all the Nations will be at perfect peace with each other. The saints standing on it represents them rulling over the Nations as kings over the Earth.

I have no reason to contradict what John witnessed as the very first words plainly states that it is a description of what he saw in heaven.

(Revelation 15:1-2) "And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. {2} And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God."

You see, when I stated the misapplication of scripture by many regarding us going to heaven, I meant as in our final destination, not that we wouldn't or never could go to heaven. If God wants us there, then he will take us, as plainly shown here. If you want to spin this to mean "the sky", knock yourself out. I don't see how this heaven being "the sky" would make sense in light of scripture defining the sea of glass as basically earth.

(Revelation 17:15) "And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues."

As far as our final destination however, scripture plainly states it to be the new earth and it is making "new earth" to mean "heaven" itself that I have a problem with. There is no justification for it, and I'm sure this need to make the "new earth" heaven comes from their preconceived notions of how spirit relates to the flesh.

 

[mjrhealth]

Actually, the scriptures never referes to God as a house. But on the contray, it is God who lives in His people. The mansons or places, levels is refering to positions of authority. The scriptures tells us that the saints will be crown kings and rule with Jesus. Each indivdual will have their own position of authority, and their position will be determined by how well they use their gifts. If one dosen't use their gifts, they will not be in the kingdom of God.

Oh but ive being to heaven Twice, so I know it is a place in fact it is many places,

2Co_12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

 

[verzanumi24]

I have no reason to contradict what John witnessed as the very first words plainly states that it is a description of what he saw in heaven.



You see, when I stated the misapplication of scripture by many regarding us going to heaven, I meant as in our final destination, not that we wouldn't or never could go to heaven. If God wants us there, then he will take us, as plainly shown here. If you want to spin this to mean "the sky", knock yourself out. I don't see how this heaven being "the sky" would make sense in light of scripture defining the sea of glass as basically earth.



As far as our final destination however, scripture plainly states it to be the new earth and it is making "new earth" to mean "heaven" itself that I have a problem with. There is no justification for it, and I'm sure this need to make the "new earth" heaven comes from their preconceived notions of how spirit relates to the flesh.

John had a vision relating to events that will take place on the Earth.

 

[Dcopymope]

John had a vision relating to events that will take place on the Earth.

And in heaven, not just earth and the earth to come. This is quite clear from the scriptures.

 

[verzanumi24]

Oh but ive being to heaven Twice, so I know it is a place in fact it is many places,

2Co_12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

1) Are you claiming to be John? 2) That scripture doesn't refute what I said.

 

[mjrhealth]

1) Are you claiming to be John? 2) That scripture doesn't refute what I said.

u smoking somtin..... never said that, why are you so argumentive, did you not read what @"ByGrace" WROTE????

 

[verzanumi24]

And in heaven, not just earth and the earth to come. This is quite clear from the scriptures.

Some of the things in Revelation is symolic and but they are symobles that can be understood. Certain scripture(In Revelations) Nations are symbolically represented as the sea.

 

[verzanumi24]

And in heaven, not just earth and the earth to come. This is quite clear from the scriptures.

Where does it say that?

 

[Taken]

Nothing can untie that mess.

Stranger

LOL Easy to comprehend why the Lord laughs. You make me laugh for the same reasons.

 

[Taken]

As far as our final destination however, scripture plainly states it to be the new earth and it is making "new earth" to mean "heaven" itself that I have a problem with. There is no justification for it, and I'm sure this need to make the "new earth" heaven comes from their preconceived notions of how spirit relates to the flesh.

Earth becomes a NEW earth.
Heaven becomes a NEW heaven.

Both were created Very Good.
Both became corrupt.

Both via a change, will become HOLY, without evil, death, corruption, destruction ABLE to penetrate the New Heaven or New Earth.

And both have had occupants, that "each" place was "their" estate, and there was/is corruption among the occupants of both places.

And importantly, there was a BARRIER, that those (bodies) out of the earth, could NOT go to heaven.

The whole big scheme, is to restore, cleanse, purify, make holy forever, the Heaven and the Earth 'AND" it's occupants.....with thus...
NO NEED of a Barrier.

Thus being, what is heavenly, shall also be the same ON Earth.

The Earth shall always exist and shall always be the estate of the faithful bodily man who was created out of his habitat.

The Heaven shall always exist and shall always be the abode of the faithful heavenly being whose estate is heaven.

But the BARRIER shall be Gone.
(Ie the firmament).
There shall be no "sun" temporarily lighting the earth.
There shall be complete light, The "Son", lighting the whole of the earth without a barrier of water, of clouds, of darkness; BETWEEN Heaven and Earth.

There shall be no "restriction" of wanting to go to heaven, for a closeness to God, to see Him, or for a peace, tranquility, joy, unity, etc., that one believes exists in heaven....
The same will BE on earth.

"On earth, AS it is in Heaven".

Not some visible imagery of heaven falling out of the sky to earth.
But rather, what IS in Heaven shall also be the SAME on Earth; the Lord God Almighty, visible, the holy occupants, the perfection, peace, etc....void a barrier.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Some of the things in Revelation is symolic and but they are symobles that can be understood. Certain scripture(In Revelations) Nations are symbolically represented as the sea.

Nations as the sea?

Eh, nah. Nations are countries, lands with borders, with governmental leadership, and the people thereof.

In the beginning, water was before land. Land rose up out of the seas as God divided the seas. Via Gods control over the weather and land, earthquakes, etc., men have observed dry land rising up out of the seas, and they also may or may not become "nations".

Abraham's promise was for him to be a "father" of many nations, which is to say, Abraham is a father to many men, 1)whose abode is in the many different nations; 2)whom such men have the Seed of God.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Actually, the scriptures never referes to God as a house. But on the contray, it is God who lives in His people. The mansons or places, levels is refering to positions of authority. The scriptures tells us that the saints will be crown kings and rule with Jesus. Each indivdual will have their own position of authority, and their position will be determined by how well they use their gifts. If one dosen't use their gifts, they will not be in the kingdom of God.

The House, the Kingdom, the Heaven....all are simply references to, in context, specific holy places, under Gods holiness. void of evil.
There was no intent to MAKE God the house, the kingdom, the heaven.

It is simply denoting holy places where God dwells, even as you mention WITHIN saved and born again men.

Also was revealed, as ByGrace said, what a man DOES do, shall position them IN Gods "house", "kingdom", "mansion", and you reinterated.

I agree with all of that; you and ByGrace, saying the same thing in different words.

I do not agree with your last part.

"If one does not use their gifts, they will not be in the kingdom of God".

Every man saved and born again, SHALL have occupancy IN the Kingdom of God.
Some shall be accounted great...as you mentioned, their rewards for their Works.
Some shall be accounted least...as Scripture reveals....no glorifiying works, no rewards.

Well, the fact is Every born again man SHALL receive the reward of the Crown of Life.
And yes some will receive MORE Crowns for their Works, and some will NOT receive MORE Crowns for their Works....yet they WILL be all together with the SAME ONE indwelling Holy Spirit, and shall occupy the SAME, new earth, as occupants of Gods holy Kingdom on Earth.

All works, NOT glorifying to God, be it by a Saved man or Unsaved man, SHALL BE Burned.

God Bless,
Taken.

 

[Dcopymope]

Earth becomes a NEW earth.
Heaven becomes a NEW heaven.

Both were created Very Good.
Both became corrupt.

Both via a change, will become HOLY, without evil, death, corruption, destruction ABLE to penetrate the New Heaven or New Earth.

And both have had occupants, that "each" place was "their" estate, and there was/is corruption among the occupants of both places.

And importantly, there was a BARRIER, that those (bodies) out of the earth, could NOT go to heaven.

The whole big scheme, is to restore, cleanse, purify, make holy forever, the Heaven and the Earth 'AND" it's occupants.....with thus...
NO NEED of a Barrier.

Thus being, what is heavenly, shall also be the same ON Earth.

The Earth shall always exist and shall always be the estate of the faithful bodily man who was created out of his habitat.

The Heaven shall always exist and shall always be the abode of the faithful heavenly being whose estate is heaven.

But the BARRIER shall be Gone.
(Ie the firmament).
There shall be no "sun" temporarily lighting the earth.
There shall be complete light, The "Son", lighting the whole of the earth without a barrier of water, of clouds, of darkness; BETWEEN Heaven and Earth.

There shall be no "restriction" of wanting to go to heaven, for a closeness to God, to see Him, or for a peace, tranquility, joy, unity, etc., that one believes exists in heaven....
The same will BE on earth.

"On earth, AS it is in Heaven".

Not some visible imagery of heaven falling out of the sky to earth.
But rather, what IS in Heaven shall also be the SAME on Earth; the Lord God Almighty, visible, the holy occupants, the perfection, peace, etc....void a barrier.

God Bless,
Taken

I mostly agree with you, except there no longer being a sun or a moon. The scriptures don't actually say that God will light the whole earth, but only the city itself. The rest of the world will still have its light provided by the sun.

(Revelation 21:22-23) "And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. {23} And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof."

(Revelation 22:5) "And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever."

(Isaiah 60:19-21) "The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory. {20} Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended. {21} Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified."

Notice it doesn't actually say the sun and moon will cease to exist, but onky that for the city neither will dominate the sky. For the city they will be overshadowed by the light of God.

 

[Taken]

I mostly agree with you, except there no longer being a sun or a moon. The scriptures don't actually say that God will light the whole earth, but only the city itself. The rest of the world will still have its light provided by the sun.

Everything we SEE, is for our benefit to get a glimpse, of what we CAN NOT SEE with our natural eyes, but that what SHALL BE manifested to us, WHEN we are ABLE to see.

IOW - we have the ability to SEE, (comprehend) without Seeing (literally with our eyeballs).

The SUN, is what we get a glimpse of...
We can not LIVE without it.
It is enery, Power, Light. It is without ceasing.
We can not APPROACH it.
We can not STARE upon it.
Yet we KNOW it is always present.
It is our foreshadow of the SON.

And the MOON, is what we get a glimpse of...
It hangs in the darkness.
It has NO energy, or Light of it's own.
We can stare upon it and DO so often expecially WHEN it appears completely Lighted.
The moon is a foreshadow of MEN, who hang in darkness, UNTIL the SUN reflectes on the moon giving it LIGHT.
The moon does not always appear Lighted, with the SUNS reflection...and NETHER do ALl men have the Reflection of the LIGHT of the SON.

There is that "interim"....1,000 years...
With Christ's earthly Kingdom, and immortal men and STILL mortal men occupying the earth.
Sure the Sun and the Moon .. stars... separation from Heaven and Earth...will prevail then.
While yet Christ's Kingdom shall be confined to the (which I believe) is the Lands Promised to Abraham...(and His "particular" descendants.)

Nut after the 1,000 years, and the season of havoc...(Satan's loosing for a short season)...

Shall the SUN, MOON, STARS, still prevail?

Well, not saying they shall "disappear", like poof, non-existent, but "disappear", like NO LONGER able to be SEEN....BECAUSE..

They are NO LONGER necessary.
There shall be NO darkness.
God IS LIGHT, and Everything will BE LIGHT, in HIS Earthly Kingdom, that shall then encompass the WHOLE earth.

The REFLECTION of HIS LIGHT, will not be LIGHTING a "moon", hanging in the darkness; but rather His LIGHT reflection SHALL BE LIGHTING every MAN.

Men can NEVER "HAVE" Gods Glory (which IS His LIGHT). Men can only "HAVE" the Reflection of HIS GLORY upon them, that illuminates the man, to be LIKE God, but NOT God.

The Moon, the Stars, shall no longer hang in darkness, as is the only time we can SEE those things. They will be completely OVERCOME, with Gods Light, (Gods Glory).

Isaiah 60:19
The sun shall be no more the Light by day, neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee and everlasting light, and thy God, thy glory.

Notice it doesn't actually say the sun and moon will cease to exist, but that the sun and moon will in fact never diminish, rise or set.

I get your point. Actually, EVERYTHING "created", remains. Nothing actually ceases to exist. It may change "forms", it may be "covered", it may be "moved" to a different location, it may have "Life from God" departed out of it.......but it FOREVER exists.

Even when the Scripture says, the earth shall pass away, or mans body shall pass away...
That is simply telling us, We shall not see that thing, again in the "form" we first knew of it.

Neither will dominate the sky, and for the city they will be overshadowed by the light of God.

Yep, you got it.
God Bless friend,
Taken