Once in Heaven, can you lose your salvation?
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Taken
I see you want to hide your response as much as possible. I don't blame you, you have nothing to offer.
Concerning your post #277, you fail to acknowledge the references that show that (1 Thess. 1:4) is talking about God's election of men, not man electing God. Burying your head in the sand doesn't change it.
And, what is 'jumbled' supposed to mean. It certainly means you have no answer.
Stranger
I didn't write (James 2:4-7).
What's the matter? Having a hard time following the discussion? Or, are you just trying to stall because you have no answer?
Your sin is lying to God and yourself about a born-again believer not being able to sin.
The consequence of that sin is that your are a liar before God. No big deal, I guess. Yet it casts a shadow on whatever you speak concerning God and the Bible. You cannot be trusted. And you certainly won't admit it.
Stranger
'They' are the churches of Galatia. (Gal. 1:2) They are born-again Christians. (Gal. 1:3-4) A simple reading of the text would have told you that. But, you don't want the simple truth. You want to make it complicated so as to hide your error.
The rest of your comments do not even deserve a response. If one believes on Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour, he is saved.
Stranger
The Bible is not a toy. And all you can say of me is that I am in contention with Scripture when I just showed you that it is you that are in contention with Scripture. It is the Bible that said there were contentions, not me. (1 Cor. 1:11)
Again, the Bible is not a toy, as you like to use it. Why don't you present the Scripture to prove what you are saying concerning the disciples not being born-again and after 3 years becoming born-again? Are you just believing what someone else has told you? Thus you can't provide the Scripture to support what you believe?
The Old Testament saints were believers and had not been born-again. But, they were still believers and saved. Yes the disciples sinned prior to being born-again. And they were sinners after being born-again as I showed you already with Peter. And even the apostle Paul acknowledges his sin. (1 Tim. 1:15) "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief." Note Paul did not say, 'of whom I was chief'. He said, 'of whom I am chief'. Was Paul born-again? Of course. And wise enough in the Spirit to know he was still a sinner.
Stranger
What's so funny? And why do you ask me again when I just told you? Do you think I am going to change my mind because you think it's funny. You who believe the Bible is just fun and games?
If you want to say that the 'world' in (John 3:16) speaks to all people on the earth, then turn to (1 John 2:15) where 'world' there is the same. And it says, "Love not the world, neither the things in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. "
So if what you say is true, that (John 3:16) means that God loves everyone in the earth, then you and I are not to love anyone in the earth. Because if we do, the love of the Father is not in us. (1 John 2:15)
Now what, funny one.
Stranger
Taken
Well-Known Member
Allowing you to state your understanding.
And disagreed with much you have said.
Disagree. 1 Thes 1:4 is clear.
"Your election of God".
Not at all. Have been observing you twisting Scripture.
Not at all. Simply means you were all over the place without flow of order.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Just allowing you to get all your statements out of changing what Scripture says.
LOL - amusing. However your judgement is moot, AND another of your denial of the truth, plainly revealed in Scripture.
Nothing to admit. You are the one speaking directly Against the Word of God, not me.
I have stated it plainly before and now. You simply want to stall to ignore the truth before you as you have no answer other than you disagree. The Scriptures disagree with you concerning (1 Thess 1:4), the commentary's disagree with you. You are burying your head in the sand.
There was perfect order in what I said. You just don't want to see it. Thus you can claim confusion. You are not confused, you are in error.
Stranger
No, your hoping for something that you can prove wrong because what I have given you already proves you wrong. Thus you don't want to answer to it. And still no acknowledgement of (James 2:4-7) being a sin of which Peter was guilty of. Ignoring doesn't make it go away. Ignoring doesn't make you right. It only shows you cannot be trusted with the Scriptures. It is just a game to you.
I didn't write (1 John 1:8-10). God did. It is He Who calls you a liar and says His Word is not in you.
Stranger
Taken
Well-Known Member
Scripture is clear, IF you KNOW the truth, and comprehend there is a period of LEARNING ABOUT Christ Jesus, and a person making a COMMITMENT.
But of course; Actually, speaking about the order, is too difficult for some to acknowledge.
Paul was a teacher of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
You imply a presumption, that when a man first hears of Jesus, he is instantly born again,
You ignore the 3 years the disciples spent learning ABOUT Jesus, and AFTERWARD, committing to the Lord, and became born again.
They were believers and doubters, as they were learning, and were NOT born again.
Paul reiterates his own denial in Scripture, and exercising his authority against the followers of Jesus.
Scripture further reveals Paul's encounter with the Spirit of Christ, and Paul's own travels to Arabia to Learn ABOUT Christ Jesus, for 3 years.
Gal 1:17
Gal 1:18
It was AFTER Paul was Learning ABOUT Christ Jesus, He became COMMITTED; born again.
Acts 9:17
If you actually read Galatians; and could put yourself in their position; you would have learned; the Galatians were LEARNING ABOUT Christ Jesus, from Paul.
How much LEARNING had they acquired?
An appearance of Paul? A letter from Paul?
And whoopie, they knew EVERYTHING!
Every man that is LEARNING about Christ Jesus, IS being Enlightened and receiving measures of Faith from God. As long as they ARE learning and Believing, they are believers and IN faith. But NOT YET BORN AGAIN!
Apparently you have NEVER noticed, or EXPERIENCED, your own period of time, between Learning ABOUT the Lord...
BEFORE making a COMMITMENT.
Apparently you have NEVER noticed, a man BELIEVING, and then "FALLING" away from believing, and falling away from receiving Faith from the Lord.
Because you AVOID distinguishing between a "Believer being enlightened and learning" AND a "Born again Believer" who HAS MADE A COMMITEMENT ... you lose out on Understanding according to God.
The Galatians; were a group of people. Not every single person in a group, learns at the same pace, or Commits at the same time.
When "YOU" single out a "group", and IGNORE the individuals IN the group, your teaching becomes obscure and jumbled.
Paul was teaching ABOUT Christ Jesus, to the Galatians, to many other "GROUPS", with Jews AND Gentiles in the listening crowds.
Learning ABOUT Christ Jesus is a BEGINNING for every individual.
You have "made" every Galatian a born again "Christian". Scripture doesn't.
Scripture reveals the Galatians were students, being enlightened to the Word of God and Paul their teacher.
Seems you do not know the difference between Learning About the Lord and Making a Commitment to the Lord.
Scripture is VERY CLEAR.
If a man HAS NOT YET COMMITTED TO THE Lord: He is still IN SIN, and can commit sin;
And CAN FALL AWAY, from Learning, being enlightened, believing what he is learning, and fall away from receiving faith from God.
Such a mans salvation is in jeopardy, and he shall NOT receive salvation, less the man return to again being enlightened, receiving faith, and receive salvation....or physically die, without having received salvation, which would be salvation forever lost to the man.
(And many, many Scripture repeatedly warn men, if they have not received salvation, they are in jeopardy of losing their salvation, that was prepared for them to ask for)
Scripture is VERY CLEAR.
Once a man HAS heartfully COMMITTED to the Lord:
The Lord Himself Converts the man; Forgives and covers and remembers no more the man SIN; cleanses the man from ALL unrighteousness; frees the man FROM SIN;
BY the Lords Spirit indwelling within the man, and BY His Power KEEPS the man that the man CAN SIN NO MORE.
I KNOW what I have done, concerning Between the Lord and myself.
I also shared with you, some specifics.
Saying I was born in sin, committed sin, and was forgiven by the Lord.
And you post to me, about men who claim to have no sin. Absurd ignorance, after having told you, I acknowledge my sin to the Lord.
I also shared with you, I am saved and born again, by the Power of the Lord, and by the power of the Lord, I sin no more.
And you post to me, YOUR DECLARATIONS, I am committing sin. What sin I asked you?
Oh, nothing specific, except, perhaps to disagree with you on your claims that Scripture means the complete opposite of what it actually says.
I am not a Jew, nor was every UNDER the curse SIN LAWS of the Jews.
I am a Gentile, whose natural curse of sin, was natural, NOT BY SOME JEWISH WRITTEN CURSE LAW. My natural SIN, was NOT BELIEVING in GOD. I remedied that, by my election to submit to the Lord for HIM to forgive me, and Convert me according to HIS WAY.
What was PROVIDED FOR THE JEWS, was a JEWISH Messiah, that came among the JEWS to release THEM "FROM THE CURSE (SIN) LAWS".
Gal 3:13
Christ hath REDEEMED US FROM THE CURSE (SIN) of the Law, being made a CURSE (sin) for us:
Some, during Jesus' day, accepted what Jesus provided FOR THEM. Some didn't, and today, FEW Jews accept what Jesus provided FOR THEM.
And the Gentiles? A few Gentiles during Jesus' day, and MANY thereafter accepted Jesus as the Jewish Messiah, THE CHRIST of God, God with them, Available TO THEM, IF they chose to ELECT HIM, CHOOSE HIM to be their Lord and Savior, and ACCEPT His forgiveness and Saving Grace and Quickening Spirit and HIS KEEPING them forever WITH HIM, Freed from SIN, Freed from EVER AGAIN in standing AGAINST HIM.
Your declaring to me, that I am committing sin, Lying to God, is deplorable....and precisely shows you; either being completely ignorant of truth of Scripture, the Power of the Lord or blatant false accuser.
You can claim all the oxymoron complete opposites for yourself....but those are not my claims; nor do I agree with you.
The Lord loves all of His creations.
He is all knowing;
He knows all of His creations.
He knows Before a man is created WHO SHALL elect Him and WHO shall reject Him.
He calls MANY, providing His OWN wonderment for ALL to SEE, and His WORD for ALL to Hear.
And those the LORD KNOWS, SHALL elect to heartfully Believe and Submit to HIM....
HE is faithful to PUT everything in that mans path, (teachers, Scripture, encounters, enlightenment, faith), that such a man WILL heartfully elect Him, and Become Forgiven, his sin forever covered, and remembered no more, Saved and Born Again, and KEEP freed from SIN, and IN STANDING WITH THE Lord, forever.
You should have learned, there IS NO SIN CURSE, for a man WHO has submitted His life to Christ.
Christ hath redeemed us (men who have heartfully committed to Him);
FROM the curse of the LAW,
Being MADE a curse for us (men WHO HAVE heartfully committed to Him).
So, while YOU can declared for yourself in ignorance, and rejection of what Christ has done, and declare YOU are born again and STILL the same old man committing sin; NOT being redeemed from the curse of the Law...
Speak for yourself, not me.
Your accusations, are simply expected persecutions of you against me. God bless you. No matter, I am forever with the Lord, and He blesses me.
I have already followed the ORDER of learning ABOUT the Lord, and made my Election of God, and submitted unto Him, and His Power keeps me freed from Sin.
Truth is; I can no longer commit sin, BECAUSE of;
the Seed of God, who is Christ, Gal:3:16
the Power of God who is Christ, 1 Cor 1: 24 the Redeemer, who is Christ, Gal 3:13
KEEPS me, 1 Pet 1:5, Col 1:17, 1 Cor 1:8
freed from Sin 1 John 3:9
You can continue to Challenge the Power of God....but that's on you.
God Bless,
Taken
Your short responses didn't fair to well for you, did they. Thus you must revert back to more smoke is better.
I showed you in (Gal. 1:3-4) that those who are addressed are Christians. Which is what you asked. Everything else you wrote is just smoke to somehow show you know something when you know nothing and are trying to hide the fact.
And now you are the 'persecuted one'? Please.
Stranger
Taken
Well-Known Member
Taken
Well-Known Member
James 2: 4-7
Does not mention Peter or sin. If you are trying to verify what you claim, use Scriptures that actually verify your claims.
Cite the Scripture mentioning Peter.
Cite his "supposed" sin.
Cite his "punishment" for this supposed sin.
Cite his "repentance: for this supposed sin.
I am well aware you are not the Scribe of Scripture.
I am well aware of who is the Author of His own Word.
That is False.
It is He who calls a man NOT IN CHRIST, without the Word IN him.
(As already established, you are without understanding.)
Already told you, the Spirit of Christ dwells in me.
It is He who claims to have no sin, is a man without the Spirit of Christ within such man.
(As already established, you are without understanding.)
Already told you, I was born in sin, committed sin, and my sin was forgiven, covered, and I sin no more.
Even a child can comprehend what WAS, (the old man), IS NO MORE. (The new man)
Your ignorance of such a simple concept of what WAS and what IS, astounding.
There is a reason you are scripturally cautioned about Debating Scripture...making wild claims when you lack understanding...
Since it becomes a shame unto your self, and embarrassing, and a man becomes reluctant to admit his errors.
All scripture is true...
All scripture does not apply to all men.
I know what applies to me.
And I see you reject Scripture applies to you....But that's you. You want to claim you are born again and still sin, and teach that is true for a born again man....that's on you.
I know what applies to me, and that it is in Direct Agreement with the Lord and His Word.
You making wild claims FOR me and False accusations AGAINST me....are simply your trespasses against me that you shall be held accountable for.
Your teaching the old man is dead and still commits SIN, is your teaching in contrast to the Word of God. You don't have to answer to me for that...God shall deal with that.
Consider yourself admonished. What you do or do not do to correct your false teaching and accusations, is on you, not me.
You would do well to read, learn, the knowledge and Ask God for His wisdom and His understanding to know what is and is not applicable to you and others, that you are so quick to present yourself as a hypocrite.
Born again, the old man dead, converted, kept by the indwelling power of God.....AFTER the Lord has redeemed the saved and born again FROM Sin, that He bare their curse, for the life of the world.
And you superceding the Lords Word, saying the saved and born again still commit sin..
Pfft!!
God Bless,
Taken
Taken
Well-Known Member
What you call smoke is simply revealing your utter lack of Spiritual understanding.
You who preach converted but the same old man who commits sin, while the Power of God dwells in a man, WHILE the man is commiting sin. Ridiculous.
Because I know what applies to me, and have no reservation is stating what the Lord has done for me.....you have accused me of committing sin and lying to God.....
Big of you! Who knew that God appointed you the chief accuser. Scripture teaches that is Satan's position, and those who serve him!
While you were so quick to proclaim, ALL MEN in Galatians, being taught of Paul, were Christians....supposedly meaning saved and born again.... I warned you salvation and conversion is per individuals.
If you have EVER sat in a Christian Church congregation....you should have notice; some are NOT committed, and still subject to SIN, and some ARE already committed, and NO LONGER subject to SIN....and the difference between the two SITTING SIDE by side being enlightened to the Word of God...THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO IS Paramount.
One is already accomplished having the INDWELLING Spirit of God, and the OTHER has not.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as "HAVE BEEN" Baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
ALL? No. Many. And? Did Paul admonish those of the MANY? No. The few!
You making BLANKET statments for a whole "group" of people is a fail.
You using VAGUE language statements is a fail.
You being UNAWARE, men LEARN ABOUT GOD, BEFORE they commit to Him, is your failure.
Your failure of being UNAWARE, men FIRST hear and learn and Believe in their MIND.....but that it is the THOUGHTS of ones HEART which God is interested in hearing, per a mans CONFESSION unto Him.
Believe away and remain a stranger...giving your MINDFUL renditions and accusations and understanding of Scripture.
It is but foolishness to God, and I agree with God.
1 Cor 3:19
1 Cor 1:25
1 Cor 2:14
Rom 8:7
God Bless,
Taken
Taken (concerning post #293)
Again, now what funny one. My thoughts about God are given in the Scriptures that prove that (John 3:16) doesn't mean God loves everyone.
I am qualified to state your beliefs. I can read and that is all it takes. You think the Bible is fun and games. Of course you do, as your avatar represents.
(1 John 2:15) proves you wrong about (John 3:16). Yet you remain in denial. It is the same with (1 John 1:8-10). It is the same with (1Thess. 1:4, 2:13). You have no Scripture to prove what you said that God loves everybody. But you're going to believe it no matter what. Because...just because.
Yet you say I am without understanding. Why did God hate Esau? When did God hate Esau? (Rom. 9:13)
Stranger
bbyrd009
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If God is Love than how can God hate, hate and love are like light and dark, are you saying God is teh darkness as well, is not Jesus teh "light" of teh world. For God so loved teh world, that is all of us, and still does, that will never change.
Rom_2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Jas_2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
For God to hate would make Him a transgresssor..;...
I have given the Scripture concerning Peter, which you are aware of. Go back and read posts # 263,268, 272, and 278. All of which prove that Peter, though born-again, is a sinner.
Then why don't you believe the Scripture I cited? Then why don't you believe the Word?
Concerning Christ dwelling in you, maybe so. You are still a liar concerning (1 John 1:8-10) as you don't believe you are still a sinner. Thus it is the Word of God that calls you a liar. Not me.
Stranger
So few understand this bit
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
God bless
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