Leviticus, a sacrifice is a victim

[DPMartin]

Leviticus is information on just what was offered on the Cross and why. Why the differences? Seeing this is the principle format for offerings though there are specifications for other offerings, but most based on this one.
_____________________________________
For the bull, at the door of the tabernacle
TJB:
Lev 1: 3 'If his offering is a holocaust of an animal out of the herd, he is to offer a male without blemish; it is to be offered at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting, so 4 that it may be accepted before Yahweh.
JPS:
Lev 1:3 If his offering be a burnt-offering of the herd, he shall offer it a male without blemish; he shall bring it to the door of the tent of meeting, that he may be accepted before the LORD.

KJV:
Lev 1:3 If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD.

________________________________
For the lamb or goat, it’s the north side of the alter

TJB:
10 'If his offering is an animal out of the flock, a lamb or a goat offered as a
11 holocaust, he is to offer a male without blemish. ·He must immolate it on the
north side of the altar, before Yahweh,

JPS:
Lev 1:10 And if his offering be of the flock, whether of the sheep, or of the goats, for a burnt-offering, he shall offer it a male without blemish.
Lev 1:11 And he shall kill it on the side of the altar northward before the LORD; and Aaron's sons, the priests, shall dash its blood against the altar round about.
KJV:
Lev 1:10 And if his offering be of the flocks, namely, of the sheep, or of the goats, for a burnt sacrifice; he shall bring it a male without blemish.
Lev 1:11 And he shall kill it on the side of the altar northward before the LORD: and the priests, Aaron's sons, shall sprinkle his blood round about upon the altar.

_____________________________________
Birds almost on the alter

TJB:
14 'If his offering to Yahweh is a holocaust of a bird, he is to offer a turtledove 15 or young pigeon. ·The priest shall offer it at the altar and wring off its head, which he is to burn on the altar; then its blood is to be drained out on the side of the altar.

JPS:
a sweet savour unto the LORD.
Lev 1:14 And if his offering to the LORD be a burnt-offering of fowls, then he shall bring his offering of turtle-doves, or of young pigeons.
Lev 1:15 And the priest shall bring it unto the altar, and pinch off its head, and make it smoke on the altar; and the blood thereof shall be drained out on the side of the altar.
KJV:
Lev 1:14 And if the burnt sacrifice for his offering to the LORD be of fowls, then he shall bring his offering of turtledoves, or of young pigeons.
Lev 1:15 And the priest shall bring it unto the altar, and wring off his head, and burn it on the altar; and the blood thereof shall be wrung out at the side of the altar:


_________________________________________
It should also be noted that the bull is killed at the door of the tabernacle by the one who offers it and the blood is thrown around and up against the alter. The lamb and the goat are kill on the north side or to the north of the alter by the one who offers it and the blood is thrown around and up against the alter. And the birds the priest kills the bird and the blood is drained out on the side of the altar.

One should also understand that a sacrifice is a victim.

 

[Helen]

Thank you...I have read your post...but need more to see the significant meaning to us today?
Are you preaching "Types and shadows" or what?
How is this applied to us today?

 

[DPMartin]

Thank you...I have read your post...but need more to see the significant meaning to us today?
Are you preaching "Types and shadows" or what?
How is this applied to us today?

Christianity is about what applies to Christ. it has been said that Leviticus separates the goats from the sheep.

 

[Truth]

Leviticus is information on just what was offered on the Cross and why. Why the differences? Seeing this is the principle format for offerings though there are specifications for other offerings, but most based on this one.
_____________________________________
For the bull, at the door of the tabernacle
TJB:
Lev 1: 3 'If his offering is a holocaust of an animal out of the herd, he is to offer a male without blemish; it is to be offered at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting, so 4 that it may be accepted before Yahweh.
JPS:
Lev 1:3 If his offering be a burnt-offering of the herd, he shall offer it a male without blemish; he shall bring it to the door of the tent of meeting, that he may be accepted before the LORD.

KJV:
Lev 1:3 If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD.

________________________________
For the lamb or goat, it’s the north side of the alter

TJB:
10 'If his offering is an animal out of the flock, a lamb or a goat offered as a
11 holocaust, he is to offer a male without blemish. ·He must immolate it on the
north side of the altar, before Yahweh,

JPS:
Lev 1:10 And if his offering be of the flock, whether of the sheep, or of the goats, for a burnt-offering, he shall offer it a male without blemish.
Lev 1:11 And he shall kill it on the side of the altar northward before the LORD; and Aaron's sons, the priests, shall dash its blood against the altar round about.
KJV:
Lev 1:10 And if his offering be of the flocks, namely, of the sheep, or of the goats, for a burnt sacrifice; he shall bring it a male without blemish.
Lev 1:11 And he shall kill it on the side of the altar northward before the LORD: and the priests, Aaron's sons, shall sprinkle his blood round about upon the altar.

_____________________________________
Birds almost on the alter

TJB:
14 'If his offering to Yahweh is a holocaust of a bird, he is to offer a turtledove 15 or young pigeon. ·The priest shall offer it at the altar and wring off its head, which he is to burn on the altar; then its blood is to be drained out on the side of the altar.

JPS:
a sweet savour unto the LORD.
Lev 1:14 And if his offering to the LORD be a burnt-offering of fowls, then he shall bring his offering of turtle-doves, or of young pigeons.
Lev 1:15 And the priest shall bring it unto the altar, and pinch off its head, and make it smoke on the altar; and the blood thereof shall be drained out on the side of the altar.
KJV:
Lev 1:14 And if the burnt sacrifice for his offering to the LORD be of fowls, then he shall bring his offering of turtledoves, or of young pigeons.
Lev 1:15 And the priest shall bring it unto the altar, and wring off his head, and burn it on the altar; and the blood thereof shall be wrung out at the side of the altar:


_________________________________________
It should also be noted that the bull is killed at the door of the tabernacle by the one who offers it and the blood is thrown around and up against the alter. The lamb and the goat are kill on the north side or to the north of the alter by the one who offers it and the blood is thrown around and up against the alter. And the birds the priest kills the bird and the blood is drained out on the side of the altar.

One should also understand that a sacrifice is a victim.

I must return to the scriptures to engage in this thread, But for now I will add this, every year on the Day of Atonement the High Priest would enter the Holy of Hollies and sprinkle blood on the East side of the Ark of the Covenant, never on the West side, now many will say that when our Savior ascended to the Father to present the First Fruits, after His Resurrection!! when He arose they arose, and were seen in the city by many. these first Fruits were presented to the Father after His Resurrection and when He fulfilled this offering, He sprinkled His Blood on the West side of the Ark in the Mishcon in the Heaven's. Now being our High Priest after the order of the Melchizedek, He enter the Holy of Hollies in God's Throne Room. Then back on earth to meet with two Disciples on the road to Amaus.

All sacrifices were victims, It was also to be a cost to the Offer-er, It had to cost ether by taking from His own flock, or purchasing it from someone else, a male of the first year, blemish-less, one could not bring an offering that was a stray, that was lost by someone else, the loss had to effect them personally.

 

[Windmill Charge]

One should also understand that a sacrifice is a victim.

Why?
To say that an animal killed as a sacrifice is a victim is to give that animal the same value as a human.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Christianity is about what applies to Christ.

A good definition for Christianity.

 

[DPMartin]

Why?
To say that an animal killed as a sacrifice is a victim is to give that animal the same value as a human.

ok then look it up in a dictionary, your views are not the meaning of words used for centuries by the English.

 

[DPMartin]

for the record should anyone not know TJB is The Jerusalem Bible (not the New Jerusalem Bible) it ranks high as a accurate English translation which includes all text excluded in the KJV

JPS is the Jewish Publication Society translation, by which many swear by as sound.

I have the Stone's Edition but I have found the translators follow Rashi teaching and translate accordingly and say as much in their commentary at Gen 1:1. it seems by that commentary it might not be wise to use the Stone's because they state they deliberately modified the translation to reflect Rashi thinking.

so the JPS seems logical for an honest translation as a Jewish source for translation.

 

[Truth]

for the record should anyone not know TJB is The Jerusalem Bible (not the New Jerusalem Bible) it ranks high as a accurate English translation which includes all text excluded in the KJV

JPS is the Jewish Publication Society translation, by which many swear by as sound.

I have the Stone's Edition but I have found the translators follow Rashi teaching and translate accordingly and say as much in their commentary at Gen 1:1. it seems by that commentary it might not be wise to use the Stone's because they state they deliberately modified the translation to reflect Rashi thinking.

so the JPS seems logical for an honest translation as a Jewish source for translation.

I also have a Stones Edition, both Tanach, and Chumash, Anthologized from Rabbinic writings. I have used the Chumash more because it is basically the first five books, and if you read all the Commentary based on the Scripture that you are reading, you will find that it is truly based on Rashi, and some other Rabbies, sometimes they hit the nail on the head,But most of the time they are speaking as men! more Philosophy than Concrete.

 

[DPMartin]

I also have a Stones Edition, both Tanach, and Chumash, Anthologized from Rabbinic writings. I have used the Chumash more because it is basically the first five books, and if you read all the Commentary based on the Scripture that you are reading, you will find that it is truly based on Rashi, and some other Rabbies, sometimes they hit the nail on the head,But most of the time they are speaking as men! more Philosophy than Concrete.

well commentary one can take with a grain or a sack of salt, but read Gen 1:1 and the commentary and why they translated Gen 1:1 differently then everybody else. that's what bothers me. anyway it's not the subject at hand, I just threw that in there, and why I now use JPS over Stones.

 

[Truth]

Just a side note about sacrifice's, one part of the sacrifice for the day of Atonement, was the used twin goats, they would draw lots, one for the Lord, and the other for the Scapegoat. the one for the Lord was sacrificed after a bull, and the blood was sprinkled on the east side of the Ark, then the Scapegoat was brought before the Alter, Aaron would place both hands on the head of the Goat, and Confess all the Iniquities of the Nation on this goat, then it was taken out to the wilderness and released, carrying the sins of the nation into an uninhabitable place. then they would place the wool with the blood from the Lords goat on the door of the Temple, and if God made Atonement for the Nation, then the wool would turn White, this was part of the living Oracles not the written Oracles, Jewish History also claims that after our Lord was Crucified the wool never turned White Again!! Leviticus 16:5-10-- and 16:20-23

 

[Truth]

well commentary one can take with a grain or a sack of salt, but read Gen 1:1 and the commentary and why they translated Gen 1:1 differently then everybody else. that's what bothers me. anyway it's not the subject at hand, I just threw that in there, and why I now use JPS over Stones.

As I have many books called the Scriptures, or Bible, your TJB is by what Publisher, so that I might be able to purchase One, sounds Interesting!! I seldom use the Stones anymore.

 

[DPMartin]

As I have many books called the Scriptures, or Bible, your TJB is by what Publisher, so that I might be able to purchase One, sounds Interesting!! I seldom use the Stones anymore.

hopefully this will get you there this is the Jerusalem Bible not the (New Jerusalem Bible) when I was looking for it it was some what hard to find the 1966 issue the Jerusalem Bible

anyway this should be a hard cover that looks the same as mine,

The Jerusalem Bible, Reader's Edition


I also have a PDF too. i'd have to look for where I got it but its free.

 

[Truth]

hopefully this will get you there this is the Jerusalem Bible not the (New Jerusalem Bible) when I was looking for it it was some what hard to find the 1966 issue the Jerusalem Bible

anyway this should be a hard cover that looks the same as mine,

The Jerusalem Bible, Reader's Edition


I also have a PDF too. i'd have to look for where I got it but its free.

I just look at the book, it says it was first issued in 1966, a Catholic bible replacement, is that correct

 

[DPMartin]

I just look at the book, it says it was first issued in 1966, a Catholic bible replacement, is that correct

yes

 

[DPMartin]

Just a side note about sacrifice's, one part of the sacrifice for the day of Atonement, was the used twin goats, they would draw lots, one for the Lord, and the other for the Scapegoat. the one for the Lord was sacrificed after a bull, and the blood was sprinkled on the east side of the Ark, then the Scapegoat was brought before the Alter, Aaron would place both hands on the head of the Goat, and Confess all the Iniquities of the Nation on this goat, then it was taken out to the wilderness and released, carrying the sins of the nation into an uninhabitable place. then they would place the wool with the blood from the Lords goat on the door of the Temple, and if God made Atonement for the Nation, then the wool would turn White, this was part of the living Oracles not the written Oracles, Jewish History also claims that after our Lord was Crucified the wool never turned White Again!! Leviticus 16:5-10-- and 16:20-23

if I may ask, where did you get this info:

" Jewish History also claims that after our Lord was Crucified the wool never turned White Again"


so anyway, you have anything on why the distinction in the first chapter in the relationship between the bull the lamb the goat the dove and the pigeon? and why the differences.

 

[DPMartin]

It probably starts with the first victim: these coats where made of skin so there was an innocent animal killed for this.

Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.


Note “firstlings” meaning more than one and they could have been by Jewish understanding lambs, rams or goats seeing in Jewish culture sheep and goats are flock. It also seems a common preconceived notion that Abel offered one lamb. And here in scripture it was more than one animal of the flock. (a good example of how we see what we think even if what we read says differently)

Gen 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

(we have been taught the we are not qualified to understand what scripture means, hence trusting someone else's theology, thing is, Jesus is the fulfillment therefore the only true interpretation, of which follows in Christianity is about what applies to Christ.)


A side note: when people argue why sacrifices are different or that sacrifices are different in other cultures. One must remember that children learn from the parent generation and if the parent generation teaches their own views or version then the sacrifice and its purpose and meaning and practice become corrupted with men’s views and judgements. Hence the differences though it all started from the same source.


Hence the Lord God’s use of firstborns ten to be exact to Noah then ten from Noah to Abraham (the by Grace through Faith seeing are to have the same Faith that Abraham has)


With Noah God reestablished His covenant with all men, via all sons of man will be sons of Noah who found Grace in God’s sight. And now we see more about the acceptable sacrifice. Abel wasn’t instructed to what was to be offered, as far as scripture shows but God had respect for Abel and his offering. There is instruction to Noah as far distinction of clean, and not. Though it seems by the writer of the text it is presumed what is clean. And only the clean were offered. What was clean it doesn’t say in Noah’s case (the man who found Grace in God's sight).


What to offer as instructed by the Lord in scripture is state to Abraham (the man of Faith):


Gen_15:9 And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon.


And all of those are mentioned in the first set of instructions to the people of Israel in Leviticus as to what is to be offered, as far as species are concerned, gender may be another issue.

 

[Truth]

if I may ask, where did you get this info:

" Jewish History also claims that after our Lord was Crucified the wool never turned White Again"


so anyway, you have anything on why the distinction in the first chapter in the relationship between the bull the lamb the goat the dove and the pigeon? and why the differences.

From Jews. Remember Stephen when speaking to the Council before He was Stoned, He spoke about the Living Oracles, these were part of things they rehearsed, things established by Solomon for Temple Service, never written down just implemented!

There were Sin Offerings, there were Peace Offerings, Guilt Offerings, many different types of Offerings! then there is what a person could afford! when Joseph and Mary went to the Temple to make an offering for giving birth she could only afford two Pigeons, instead of a lamb.
Bulls were as far as I can remember a Sin Offering, as Aaron forged the Golden Calf, any time Aaron, and those that replaced Him entered the Holy of Hollies on the Day of Atonement, a Bull was always the first Offering for the Sin of the High Priest, then other offerings for the Nation, I am only replying off the Cuff

 

[DPMartin]

From Jews. Remember Stephen when speaking to the Council before He was Stoned, He spoke about the Living Oracles, these were part of things they rehearsed, things established by Solomon for Temple Service, never written down just implemented!

There were Sin Offerings, there were Peace Offerings, Guilt Offerings, many different types of Offerings! then there is what a person could afford! when Joseph and Mary went to the Temple to make an offering for giving birth she could only afford two Pigeons, instead of a lamb.
Bulls were as far as I can remember a Sin Offering, as Aaron forged the Golden Calf, any time Aaron, and those that replaced Him entered the Holy of Hollies on the Day of Atonement, a Bull was always the first Offering for the Sin of the High Priest, then other offerings for the Nation, I am only replying off the Cuff

though your right as far as Mary but in actuality if she had a lamb she would still have to bring a dove or pigeon for a sin offering so a sin offering isn't always a bull:

JBS:


Lev 12:3 And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. 4 And she shall continue in the blood of purification three and thirty days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purification be fulfilled. 5 But if she bear a maid-child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her impurity; and she shall continue in the blood of purification threescore and six days. 6 And when the days of her purification are fulfilled, for a son, or for a daughter, she shall bring a lamb of the first year for a burnt-offering, and a young pigeon, or a turtle-dove, for a sin-offering, unto the door of the tent of meeting, unto the priest. 7 And he shall offer it before the LORD, and make atonement for her; and she shall be cleansed from the fountain of her blood. This is the law for her that beareth, whether a male or a female.

Lev 12:8 And if her means suffice not for a lamb, then she shall take two turtle-doves, or two young pigeons: the one for a burnt-offering, and the other for a sin-offering; and the priest shall make atonement for her, and she shall be clean.

that's not to get picking its just that one could get the impression that you mean only bulls for sin offerings and only birds if one is poor. also according to law one must bring two of one or the other, not one pigeon and one dove.


and we also know that you are correct about whether or not she had funds because she brought more than one bird

KJV
Luk 2:22 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord; 23 (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord; ) 24 And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.

scripture stating that is what they came to do.

its interesting that the Lords burnt offering wasn't a lamb seeing He is the Lamb of God to be offered. also the Lord comes into the world in a verifiable humble estate.