It is not in the bible.....sola scripture

[Marymog]

It is clear to God. It is clear to His sheep. If it is not clear to me or to you or to anyone else in a given moment then in that moment we are not His sheep.

What is clear to me is that you are wrong in your beliefs. Does that make me right? And you still didn't answer my question.

Curious Mary

 

[amadeus]

What is clear to me is that you are wrong in your beliefs. Does that make me right? And you still didn't answer my question.

Curious Mary

There are many interpretations because people are both in and out. Sometimes they are in His Name and other times they are not. Sometimes they are sheep and sometimes they are not. They draw conclusions which are a mixture of God's answer and their own. The part that is their own causes the contradictions. This is why I said it is clear to God. He always knows. People who are sincere disagree because are not praying without ceasing and because they are not rejoicing in the Lord always.

 

[Jun2u]

It is clear to God. It is clear to His sheep. If it is not clear to me or to you or to anyone else in a given moment then in that moment we are not His sheep.

It is God’s prerogative to give or open an individual’s eyes to understand a message. When we became saved, our conversion was instant, in that, we received eternal life, and “eternal” in God’s language has the same meaning as that in our English language...”for ever.”

So when God does not open our eyes to understand a particular message, it does NOT mean we are not His at that particular moment, rather He wishes to reserve another date to reveal the meaning...in His good time!

To God Be The Glory

 

[bbyrd009]

It is clear to God. It is clear to His sheep. If it is not clear to me or to you or to anyone else in a given moment then in that moment we are not His sheep.

nice

 

[Marymog]

There are many interpretations because people are both in and out. Sometimes they are in His Name and other times they are not. Sometimes they are sheep and sometimes they are not. They draw conclusions which are a mixture of God's answer and their own. The part that is their own causes the contradictions. This is why I said it is clear to God. He always knows. People who are sincere disagree because are not praying without ceasing and because they are not rejoicing in the Lord always.

I am going to try one more time. I still can't find your answer to my question.

You said His message is ALWAYS CLEAR.

So I ask you: If His message is always clear then why are there so many different interpretations of the same scripture passage? OBVIOUSLY His message isn't clear if there are different interpretations. Correct?

Since there are varying interpretations of the same passage of scripture, and all claim the Holy Spirit guided them, then obviously His message ISN'T very clear which is OPPOSITE of what you are saying. Correct?

If His message is clear then there would be no IN and OUT like you seem to believe. If his message is clear we would always be IN. Correct?

We can't, as you say, "draw conclusions" if his message is CLEAR. Correct?

People who are sincere disagree because they are not praying without ceasing OR not rejoicing in the Lord always? Who is the judge of that? You? Me?

According to your theory if I pray without ceasing AND rejoicing in the Lord AND his message is always clear to me that means I am always right in my interpretations of scripture. Correct? I assure you I am doing all those things. Are you?

Curious Mary

 

[bbyrd009]

the Message is always clear; the hearing is usually not, i guess

 

[Helen]

Dear sir,
If what you said is true and His message is ALWAYS CLEAR then why are there so many different interpretations of the same scripture passage?

Mary

God's message IS always clear...no problem His end...it's the crooked ears and dull of hearing which have the problem.
We all believe that 'we' hear clearly and that the other guy doesn't.
Sometimes it behoves us to put our nose in our own pocket and get on with our relationship between ourselves and God.

When Peter said to Jesus- " What shall this man do?" ( speaking of John)
Jesus said- " What's that got to do with you? You follow Me."
That is what is of vital importance to our soul, not the other guy.

 

[Marymog]

God's message IS always clear...no problem His end...it's the crooked ears and dull of hearing which have the problem.
We all believe that 'we' hear clearly and that the other guy doesn't.
Sometimes it behoves us to put our nose in our own pocket and get on with our relationship between ourselves and God.

When Peter said to Jesus- " What shall this man do?" ( speaking of John)
Jesus said- " What's that got to do with you? You follow Me."
That is what is of vital importance to our soul, not the other guy.

Hi BG,

Very well put and well articulated. I understand how YOU perceive "always clear". How do you decide who has the "crooked ears and dull of hearing"? How do you decide who has "the problem"? Who decides if I have a problem hearing the Word correctly or if you have the problem in the way you are translating that word? You? Amadeus? Me? bbyrd009? The Pope?

I should point out that the example from scripture you have given, John 21:20-22, has NOTHING to do with what we are talking about. In the example you gave Jesus is telling Peter it is none of his business who is going to betray Him. Just do YOUR job Peter and follow Me.

So, once again, if scripture is sooooo clear and anyone can properly interpret it with the guidance of the Holy Spirit why do we have so many different interpretations of the same passage from scripture? All say they have been inspired by the Holy Spirit however all have different interpretations. Is the Holy Spirit confused OR are we?

The other guy isn't of vital importance? Are we not to spread the word of God and our faith/belief in Jesus to the whole world? Make disciples of all nations? I thought that's what Jesus said to do.

IHS...Mary

 

[Marymog]

the Message is always clear; the hearing is usually not, i guess

That makes ZERO sense. If the message is always clear then I would clearly hear it.

Maybe the person giving the message isn't being clear?

Mary

 

[bbyrd009]

That makes ZERO sense. If the message is always clear then I would clearly hear it.

Maybe the person giving the message isn't being clear?

Mary

well, we have this thing that we all acknowledge as occurring at times when a message is not what we want to hear, and we just like mis-hear the message on purpose, so to speak, so as to make it fit a little better with our understanding, right? And i say "on purpose" there, but really that is not the best characterization i guess, is it.

the message is always clear, but the ears to hear it are a different story, i guess. So yes, when the message gets repeated by one without ears, then the message is no longer clear, certainly

 

[Marymog]

well, we have this thing that we all acknowledge as occurring at times when a message is not what we want to hear, and we just like mis-hear the message on purpose, so to speak, so as to make it fit a little better with our understanding, right? And i say "on purpose" there, but really that is not the best characterization i guess, is it.

the message is always clear, but the ears to hear it are a different story, i guess. So yes, when the message gets repeated by one without ears, then the message is no longer clear, certainly

If a message is not what you want to hear and you reject it then you didn't mis-hear it. You consciously rejected it.

The message can't always be clear if we all come up with a different story. That makes no sense. That's like saying to a group of people "My message to you is the Truth and it is very clear. Now go out and do what you think that message means and make it YOUR truth. I don't really care. And if you got it wrong, don't worry. If you didn't live The Truth that I gave you, don't worry, it's not my fault, it's yours for not hearing it correctly. If you mislead other people with your version of My Truth, don't worry. Your still going to heaven. I am not holding you or them accountable."

The truth isn't relative.

IHS....Mary

 

[OzSpen]

It is God’s prerogative to give or open an individual’s eyes to understand a message. When we became saved, our conversion was instant, in that, we received eternal life, and “eternal” in God’s language has the same meaning as that in our English language...”for ever.”

Jun,

How does that comment line up with God being the God of justice/righteousness? 'Indeed, in truth, God does not act wickedly, and the Almighty does not pervert justice' (Job 34:12 NET).

So when God does not open our eyes to understand a particular message, it does NOT mean we are not His at that particular moment, rather He wishes to reserve another date to reveal the meaning...in His good time!

To God Be The Glory

Who are the 'our eyes' and 'we'?

Are you saying that God does this with all people?

Are you promoting universalism, that God will open the eyes of all people eventually?

Oz

 

[bbyrd009]

If a message is not what you want to hear and you reject it then you didn't mis-hear it. You consciously rejected it.

well, that is true in a sense, but we don't apply this to little kids who hear "stay here for the present," do we.
They don't consciously reject the alt def of present, they are just ignorant of it, right

 

[bbyrd009]

The message can't always be clear if we all come up with a different story. That makes no sense.

ergo the ears are what is different, not the message. The message will not change; the hearing might. Most of your assertions can be quoted in Scripture, until one gets to "if you mislead," i guess?

 

[bbyrd009]

The truth isn't relative.

then bam state an absolute truth, if you like

we also call these "laws," i guess

give it your best shot

 

[Marymog]

then bam state an absolute truth, if you like

we also call these "laws," i guess

give it your best shot

It is absolutely true that the truth isn't relative.

 

[Helen]

Hi BG,
I understand how YOU perceive "always clear".
How do you decide who has the "crooked ears and dull of hearing"? How do you decide who has "the problem"?
<snip>

IHS...Mary

Simple..I don't!!
If you have read any, many, of my posts Mary, you will see that I always contend this.
It is when people say and believe- " I hear 100% clearly" ( which happens over and over again on this site, ...not in those very words)
GOD speaks clearly...we all "hear" with whatever religious filter we use or have been taught, and we colour what we hear by what we believe it must be saying.

Everyone does it...no one is exempt.
I think we have been around this very mulberry bush a few time before.;)
I don't care who anyone is..those that are dogmatic and say " I know" fool themselves.
We all "Know in part and understand in part, and speak in part.."
Yet because people are insecure they just cannot admit that actually they do not know 'it all.'
None of us do.

You like to say "this makes no sense".. and it doesn't to the natural mind...but that is how God designed it.
God made us a 'body' everyone part needing each other...in that we have all truth..together, not separately. But , you never seem to like that answer!

 

[Marymog]

Simple..I don't!!
If you have read any, many, of my posts Mary, you will see that I always contend this.
It is when people say and believe- " I hear 100% clearly" ( which happens over and over again on this site, ...not in those very words)
GOD speaks clearly...we all "hear" with whatever religious filter we use or have been taught, and we colour what we hear by what we believe it must be saying.

Everyone does it...no one is exempt.
I think we have been around this very mulberry bush a few time before.;)
I don't care who anyone is..those that are dogmatic and say " I know" fool themselves.
We all "Know in part and understand in part, and speak in part.."
Yet because people are insecure they just cannot admit that actually they do not know 'it all.'
None of us do.

Hi,

Now I am really confused. You made the affirmative statement "it's the crooked ears and dull of hearing which have the problem."

That statement, to me, suggest you know who has crooked ears and are dull of hearing. You suggested you know who has the problem.

I guess I misunderstood you.

Love, Mary

 

[Jun2u]

Jun,

How does that comment line up with God being the God of justice/righteousness? 'Indeed, in truth, God does not act wickedly, and the Almighty does not pervert justice' (Job 34:12 NET).



Who are the 'our eyes' and 'we'?

Are you saying that God does this with all people?

Are you promoting universalism, that God will open the eyes of all people eventually?

Oz

I thought we were in a Christian forum, am I mistaken?

My comments were addressed to Amadeus in his post 1521.

Make sure you know what were being discussed before responding.

Jun

 

[Helen]

Hi,

Now I am really confused. You made the affirmative statement "it's the crooked ears and dull of hearing which have the problem."

True, who will stand up and be the first to say that they hear perfectly.
I made it clear...none of us do.

That statement, to me, suggest you know who has crooked ears and are dull of hearing. You suggested you know who has the problem.

I guess I misunderstood you.

Love, Mary

I am not that smart, wise, or spiritual that I could know what only God Himself knows! :)
I have a feeling ( just a feeling) That God's desire if for us to see that we all need each other along the Path Homeward...but most would much rather believe that they by themselves can have the whole ball of wax. Such is life, such is man.